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blackpenguin · May 24, 2005, 11:34 PM

I've heard a lot of praise about the new iChat, and I just can't figure it out -- I'm still consterned by bugs left in from the FIRST version. Text and background colors are still missing here! They appear on the iChat side, but when received on an AIM client they lose the color -- black text on white background! This is unacceptable. Unless you have a preference set to set colors for incoming messages, they will lose their background colors if the AIM user has set the text background color rather than the true background color. Why hasn't this been fixed yet?

Profiles are another story. Finally in this version we are able to create profiles from iChat. However, we are still disabled -- you can't set background colors! Looks pretty boring in white. Reading others' profiles hasn't changed; it's still terrible. A tiny, non-resizable window contains the profile, devoid of any background coloring. I can't believe this hasn't been updated through three versions of the program.

Away messages? No style possibilities at all. And reading others' away messages is crippled, too -- you can see just the text by their names and in a tooltip, but no stylized way.

Buddy actions are rather weak, too... not nearly enough options. This is an Apple product, right? Then why can I attach AppleScripts to buddy alerts in AIM and not to buddy actions in iChat? Seriously.

No buddy groups? Come on.

Sure, the AV features are nice... I have a microphone, and if I could find a buddy that has one too, I might actually use it. Forget videoconferencing, no need. But I can't take this app seriously if it can't handle basic instant messaging at least as well as AIM, if not far far better. Apple's seriously dropping the ball with this one. For now, I'm still stuck with AIM, much as I loathe it.

-- Nick

mpancha · May 24, 2005, 11:41 PM

most of the features u want, i dont really use

but the groups are there in iChat, just u have to reconfigure them (wont just import from AIM)

to enable groups, go to the view menu, select "use groups" if u do this, it sometimes messes up ur aim buddy list.

midwinter · May 24, 2005, 11:48 PM

Originally Posted by blackpenguin

black text on white background! This is unacceptable.

Heh.

blackpenguin · May 24, 2005, 11:55 PM

OK, I missed the Groups feature. I'm working with that now, seeing if it's up to snuff. And yeah, I suppose I sounded a bit irate about trivialities. Nonetheless, I don't think it's too much to ask for a chat program to support colors for text and background. Call me crazy.

mpancha · May 25, 2005, 12:19 AM

i didn't mean it as in they were trivial, just personally, those dont bother me...

but the groups I'm with you on, that was my biggest pet peeve with iChat 1.0, but it got added in their 2nd version, I dont remember if it was a .1 update or a full 1.0 update.

powertrippin · May 25, 2005, 12:33 AM

Man, I disagree completely. I love iChat for the simple black text on white background. I use it to TYPE to people. I love not ever having to see black background with purple and pink alternating text saying :

"hEy GuyZ wASup?! My p33pS is @ hOme yO!!! or some other AOL stupidness.

tooki · May 25, 2005, 01:21 AM

Originally Posted by mpancha

but the groups are there in iChat, just u have to reconfigure them (wont just import from AIM)

What are you talking about? It totally pulled my AIM groups right off the AIM server.

tooki

blackpenguin · May 25, 2005, 01:28 AM

Originally Posted by powertrippin

Man, I disagree completely. I love iChat for the simple black text on white background. I use it to TYPE to people. I love not ever having to see black background with purple and pink alternating text saying :

"hEy GuyZ wASup?! My p33pS is @ hOme yO!!! or some other AOL stupidness.

Noted, but consider:

Color or not, you won't prevent the 12-year-old on the other end from typing that.
That's the beauty of the ability to reformat incoming messages -- you don't have to see those colors. I have all incoming messages formatted to something bearable. Many other people (i.e. AIM users) don't have this, though, and so they should see what I send. In color, not black and white.

nforcer · May 25, 2005, 01:32 AM

Sounds like you want Adium or Proteus (perhaps even Fire). iChat is just the noob version of AIM with video chat

blackpenguin · May 25, 2005, 09:36 AM

I've used Adium and Fire before... never was a fan of either. I guess I can try Proteus. It's a shame, though. The iChat interface is clean and slick, I like its design and additional AV features. It just can't compete on the level of basics. Apple can do better than that.

mpancha · 10:47 AM

Originally Posted by tooki

What are you talking about? It totally pulled my AIM groups right off the AIM server.

tooki

lucky.... mine didn't. Mine has the same person in 2-3 different groups across the board with all my buddies. If I delete a person otu of the group(s) they aren't suppsed to be in, then it deletes them entirely out of iChat

Mastrap · May 25, 2005, 11:45 AM

I'm also totally with the simplicity. I use iChat mainly for free international calls (both voice and video). Whenever I am typing in chat I'd like things to be as uncluttered as possible.

blackpenguin · May 25, 2005, 12:04 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I'm also totally with the simplicity. I use iChat mainly for free international calls (both voice and video). Whenever I am typing in chat I'd like things to be as uncluttered as possible.

OK, so you like the simplicity... no argument with that. But what happened to flexibility? Give users the option. Leave it simple and allow users to customize it if they wish.

I think the point is being missed. This isn't just a missing feature... it's a bug. The software purports to colorize outgoing messages, but the colors do not appear correctly on others' screens. This is not something outside of Apple's capability to fix.

Mastrap · May 25, 2005, 12:43 PM

^ I'm really not trying to pick an argument but I much rather have working AV capabilities than coloured text backgrounds. But each to their own.

peterthorn · May 25, 2005, 01:56 PM

Now that I can use it with MSN messenger too, I'm not the one complaining. I just wish I knew enough people with iSight, so it could give me an excuse to try the multi-people videochat :-)

mpancha · May 25, 2005, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by peterthorn

Now that I can use it with MSN messenger too, I'm not the one complaining. I just wish I knew enough people with iSight, so it could give me an excuse to try the multi-people videochat :-)

does MSN webcam work via iChat (with the jabber workaround)?

Mike S. · May 25, 2005, 05:53 PM

Originally Posted by blackpenguin

OK, so you like the simplicity... no argument with that. But what happened to flexibility?

We're talking about Apple here... flexibility is a third party opportunity.

Honestly, if I could only use Apple's software on my Mac I wouldn't be using one. They make some killer back end stuff that lets third parties build great apps. Apple's own software generally doesn't impress me at all but I'm not the target audience for it.

Perhaps it's great for people who just want the most popular features or the basics in a simple to use UI but once you grow beyond that stage Apple's products are very limiting (not counting their Pro apps).

RonnieoftheRose · May 25, 2005, 06:30 PM

I started playing with Skype last week. Miles better than iChat. So today I bought a Skypein number and Skypeout credit. My Mac is now a proper VOIP phone and the quality is pretty amazing. I called three regular land line numbers across the world, total talk time of 15 minutes and the charge was 10 cents. Skype to Skype calls are free of course. Anyone calling me from the UK can call me for free with their land phone even if I'm 10,000 miles away because my Skypein number is a UK phone number. This is what iChat should have been but Apple has missed the boat so far and the income from cheap international call charges that comes with it.

Apple better get on it now and integrate it with Dot Mac and a wireless iPhone.

jasong · May 25, 2005, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by blackpenguin

black text on white background! This is unacceptable.

No, black text on black background is unacceptable

SSharon · May 26, 2005, 12:57 AM

there are many features of AIM that I don't use, but there are many more that I do. I like being able to really have control over what actions need sounds and be able to set the application volume, and only have it bounce once and then flash the AIM thing in a non-obtrusive way. I like being able to have AIM automatically send messages to specific users when they sign on. I like all the text on the left side with a full timestamp. ichat really just does not provide. I can't stand the wacky colors so I don't care about that, so I end up using AIM for chat and ichat for video stuff once in a while. I also hate how ichat signs me off if I sign on to AIM at another location, just let me sign on everywhere who freaking cares I don't need a warning message!

Anyway, I don't usually rant, but ichat is not a selling point. there was no need for apple to even make a mac AIM client so the fact that they went out of their way to make one that sucks in version 3 is sad. If only the official client had no ads and video chat I would be happy, and yes I have tried fire, adium, proteus, etc.

peterthorn · May 26, 2005, 04:46 AM

Originally Posted by mpancha

does MSN webcam work via iChat (with the jabber workaround)?

No unfortunately (or at least, I haven't succeded)

blackpenguin · May 26, 2005, 10:56 AM

I generally feel the same way about AIM... it's got the features that I use, minus the AV abilities. It's not a pleasant experience, though. Buddy List setup is annoying, the interface is riddled with bugs and still lags behind the Windows version of the software, and let's not forget the ads. We're on round 5 of OS X versions, here, and AIM is still Carbonized -- not Cocoa. Time for a rehaul.

iChat had potential the first time they brought it out. That it still only has potential in version 3 is depressing. I disagree that Apple's products, discluding their Pro line, are limiting; they are typically well-designed, relatively full-featured packages. Some are purposely positioned for basic and intermediate users, but even power users can take advantage of much of their software. Once again, though, these are not missing features but bugs that were missed. iChat is missing polish, and that is not typical of Apple.

Russian Mac fan · May 26, 2005, 02:19 PM

My biggest gripe is the way they change the groups.

now you can't sort for all groups
so I have to scroll all the way down
before, you could choose
you can't sort by status for ALL groups
only within each
it's like having 2-3 other buddy lists

mpancha · May 26, 2005, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by Russian Mac fan

My biggest gripe is the way they change the groups.

now you can't sort for all groups
so I have to scroll all the way down
before, you could choose
you can't sort by status for ALL groups
only within each
it's like having 2-3 other buddy lists

agreed, I liked their grouping system in iChat 2.