[Weyland-Yutani]

Safari is a fine browser. BUT it suffers from UI flaws that can make it really frustrating to use. There are three things I would like to mention, and all have been reported to Apple a LONG TIME AGO. Here they are in the order of irritation:

Numero uno (i.e. really pisses me off):

Pressing ⌘Q quits Safari immediately and without warning. You cannot cancel this command. Now usually this wouldn't be a bad thing, but when one intends to close a window or a tab by pressing ⌘W hitting ⌘Q can happen. Then your 3 windows and 8 tabs are gone. Mozilla offers a warning if you have more than one window or tab open when you ask the app to quit. How about that in Safari? [applies to all versions of Safari since all could open multiple windows, even though tabs came later]
- reported to Apple in May 2004

Numero dos (silly, though not a dealbreaker):

The toolbar cannot be customized like other toolbars in Mac OS X can. i.e. Icon, text or both view, no collapse button (although it is in the View menu as an option) etc. [all versions of Safari] The Google search field cannot be removed. [since Safari 2.0]
- reported to Apple in Sep 2004

Numero tres (lame effort by Apple, but easily passable):

The Download manager is really primitive. You either have to keep all the items in it or delete them all! It also pops up when you download the first item after opening Safari (because it opens the DM window then) but never again. So you will have to check manually to see if a download is active. Consistency is what bothers me here.
- reported to Apple in May 2003

And that concludes my list of threes. There are many many more things that annoy me about Safari, but none of them annoys me so much that I want to use anything else. These are things that wear on one in the end and eventually the alternative browsers will have beaten Safari not only in speed and features, but also in UI consistency and elegance.

Please share your gripes about Safari with the rest of us! (and if you have reported them to Apple or not)

cheers

W-Y

[angelmb]

Número uno: I wonder if with Xcode one can modify the default settings so one is notified before closing a window with several tabs opened

Número dos: Could be Xcode helpful there (about removing the google search field) again?

Número tres: I can delete items individually once selected.

I would like another set of toolbar icons, or at least, being able to choose a smaller size.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Acerca número tres, you are correct. I retract that as a complaint

As for the other two, well it is possible. I'll have to look into using XCode to remidy those things. Although I'd like Apple to deliver their products with better QA to live up to their own hype.

I like Apple and their products in general but QA and UI leaves a lot to be desired at times.

cheers

W-Y

[angelmb]

OK, I have played with Xcode… I can edit the english resources but not the spanish resources, I guess the editable parts are not stored in the package :-/ Well, you are able to delete de Google search field but I could not see a way to be adviced about closing the browser window.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Hey thanks, I haven't had the time to look properly into this yet but I think you are correct. Safari is a bit of a custom job it seems. Grr @ not being able to edit the Spanish resources.

Now THIS is what I call a good tech forum! I think we are improving a lot

If I could, I would add you to my Respected Users list angelmb!

cheers

W-Y

[Millennium]

I'm surprised that the Spanish resources wouldn't be editable. What happens if you try?

Modifying Safari to warn you when you're closing or quitting multiple tabs (a la Firefox) can't be done with Interface Builder alone, but you may be able to do something with the WebKit source. I'm not entirely positive, but I think that the tabbed view in Safari is actually part of WebKit. If that's true, then modifying it for this should be fairly easy to code, if all you want to do is display a dialog or maybe a sheet.

[Busemann]

An elegant solution would be if it picked up right where it was before quit, à la Opera. So if you hit ⌘Q by mistake you could just relaunch Safari and it would be where it was. A warning whenever there are tabs open would quickly become a nuisance IMHO..

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Busemann

An elegant solution would be if it picked up right where it was before quit, à la Opera. So if you hit ⌘Q by mistake you could just relaunch Safari and it would be where it was. A warning whenever there are tabs open would quickly become a nuisance IMHO..

Yes, that would be an idea as well. Still, I'm not sure it would become a nuisance to have the browser to ask you if you really want to quit. Mozilla does this and I never got annoyed with it.

Most apps do this anyway. Photoshop asks if you want to quit if you have a modified image open. Safari should ask if you want to quit if you have something other than the startpage open.

Unless of course it would use the Opera method of saving its state before quitting. Either way would be better than what we have now.

cheers

W-Y

[Apfhex]

There's at least a SIMBL plugin that warned you before closing multiple windows/tabs.

I like that the Download Manager DOESN'T come to the foreground everytime I start a download, but maybe there could be some sort of other indication a download's going. I just wish it had a user definable queue!

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Apfhex

There's at least a SIMBL plugin that warned you before closing multiple windows/tabs.

I like that the Download Manager DOESN'T come to the foreground everytime I start a download, but maybe there could be some sort of other indication a download's going. I just wish it had a user definable queue!

Thanks for the link! I'll be sure to give it a try.

As for the Download Manager I agree 100%! I'd like some consistency too, i.e. not having it pop in the front at all or every time (although I wouldn't like the latter option very much).

Instead yes there should be some sort of non intrusive indication that a d/l is going on.

cheers

W-Y

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by Millennium

I'm surprised that the Spanish resources wouldn't be editable. What happens if you try?

No problem with the resource inside the English.lproj folder so far.

[brettcamp]

You've hit the major annoyances (especially the failure to restore the state of pages after a quit or crash), but here are some lesser ones:
I'd like to be able to turn off brushed metal without using a 3rd party app.
It should be possible to hold down the command key when selecting a site address from the bookmarks bar and having that site open in a new tab, rather than replacing the currently open window. That's the way it works with items from the bookmarks window, and I think the way Camino's bookmarsk bar works.

[Thinine]

Uhh, that's how it works now. Command-click a bookmark and it opens in a new tab. That's how it's been since the beginning.

[brettcamp]

Nope. As I said, if you have a folder in the bookmarks BAR (not MENU), and you select one of the pages in that folder, it replaces the current page, even if the command key is held down. In Camino, OTOH, if you hold down the command key while selecting a page from within a folder in the bookmarks BAR, it opens in a new tab. It's more logical and consistent for the BAR and MENU to work the same way, and I hope the next version of Safari will make it so.

[Thinine]

Well you didn't say from within a folder in the post I was replying to. You can open a folder in tabs, or a single site in a tab, but you're right, you can't open a site in a tab that's in a folder.

[tomrock]

I wish you could right-click an image and get tech info about it (size and path, specifically). I know the info is in the Activity window but you have to wade through a bunch of stuff to find it.

I agree about closing multiple tabs and windows. There should be a warning.

[Fonzie]

I have never had a problem hitting Q instead of W when closing tabs. I tend to quickly glance at the keyboard when ever I close anything and in general too. I can't stop this behaviour. I guess it comes down to how big fingers you have *lol*

I think the annoyances are perfect valid though. I would like to see some sort of requester when closing multiple tabs-just because it can be done.

[angelmb]

Originally Posted by brettcamp

Nope. As I said, if you have a folder in the bookmarks BAR (not MENU), and you select one of the pages in that folder, it replaces the current page, even if the command key is held down.

Weird, Safari does it like you ask here, I mean, I clic/select a site inside a folder in the bookmarks bar while holding the command key down, then Safari opens this site in a new tab. Doing it from the Favourites menu works in the same way. This is with the spanish version of Safari.

[bradoesch]

Originally Posted by Busemann

An elegant solution would be if it picked up right where it was before quit, à la Opera. So if you hit ⌘Q by mistake you could just relaunch Safari and it would be where it was. A warning whenever there are tabs open would quickly become a nuisance IMHO..

That would be excellent if the tabs saved their state for the next launch.

This is the close warning in Firefox that people are wanting (at least me) in Safari:



You'd only have to turn it off once. That should make everyone happy.

[sushiism]

you shouldn't be warned on quit because your not modifying anything, if your foolish enough to do it by accident then it can be corrected in a few seconds in the history viewer.

[megasad]

With regards accidentally quitting Safari, the obvious thing to do, and what I've done for at least a year now, is to change the keyboard shortcut for "Quit Safari", in System Preferences, from Command-Q to Command-Shift-Q, or whatever else you like.

As for the one thing that has bothered me about Safari for ever and ever; the way it treats typefaces that do not have a bold version of themselves. For an example, see this page:

http://www.megasad.com/archive/jedi/main.html

If you look at that page in any browser other than Safari (and OmniWeb and Shiira, I guess) the "Welcome..." line, the "Have fun!" line, and all the bits of text that are in bold; they are in the same typeface as the main body text, OCR A Extended (download if you don't have it). In WebKit powered browsers however, they appear in Helvetica.

I understand that this is because there is no proper bold version of the typeface, but I really do prefer the standard behaviour, of simply "beefing up" what you've got to work with, over the pedantic Apple way. I have submitted feedback long ago, but hold out no hope that this will ever be changed; it seems an ideological decision rather than a technical one.

[Tony Arnold]

http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3231

Synthesised bold is apparently on it's way...

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by sushiism

you shouldn't be warned on quit because your not modifying anything

When you're in webmail or a wiki you are modifying something. You should get a warning then.

Originally Posted by sushiism

if your foolish enough to do it by accident then it can be corrected in a few seconds in the history viewer.

It should be easier to recover from an accidental quit. Some way to restore the previous program state like in Opera or OmniWeb would be a good enhancement for Safari.

[megasad]

Originally Posted by Tony Arnold

http://bugzilla.opendarwin.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3231

Synthesised bold is apparently on it's way...

Hot dog! I do not keep up to date with Safari's progress as much as I once did, which is why I did not know about this. That they consider it a bug makes me happy. Now just to wait for it to be implemented.

[sushiism]

Yes but that wasn't mentioned, I mentioned modifying because I realise if you are modifying something then a program should ask, however safari has no idea if your actually modifying something or just on google. Trying to take in to account every possible occurrence of user stupidity is a microsoft way of working. Boo hoo you closed your browser start typing your precious wikis and mails in text edit then and spend the 5 seconds it takes to drag history entries to the tabs. Or change the shortcut to cmd+opt+shift+F5 or something. Program state saving sounds like the sort of ridiculous feature a linux ""interface designer"" would come up with, just because something is possible doesn't mean it should be done.

[CaptainHaddock]

Perhaps in the future, Safari might detect whether you're halfway through entering text into a web form, and prompt before quitting on that condition only. I certainly agree it's inappropriate to be prompted whenever you try to quit the program, and the history list easily shows you where you were browsing last.

[Gavin]

Closing the window is a different matter. I can get to where I have several windows open and a few of them have 7 or 8 tabs. I've hit the window close button on the wrong one by mistake more than once. An optional warning would be appropriate here. But I can't see a need for it to warn you simply because you have tabs open on quit. That said, having it warn you if you try to quit when you have altered text in a form would be handy.

My biggest complaint is the threading. I open a window in a new tab and I get the wheel, can't so much as scroll the current page while the new one loads behind the scenes. It's a killer if the page you've sent into another tab is big with lots of pix.

I also want to be able to get info about an image that hasn't loaded with a contextual menu - to at least see the url so I can fix it. As it is I have to look at the source code.

It needs better cookie controls. At least a white list.

[kent m]

Originally Posted by Thinine

Uhh, that's how it works now. Command-click a bookmark and it opens in a new tab. That's how it's been since the beginning.

Really? News to me. This never works - it overwrites the current Tab.

[kent m]

It's a real pain to organize Bookmarks.

When organizing, bookmark folders will open when you mouse over but will not close when you exit...

Dragging a url onto a tab will not let you place the url into nested folders...

[Gavin]

You have to set up tabbed browsing in the settings, then it works like Thinine said.

[kent m]

CMD-Click to open a bookmark in a new tab doesn't work for me. It always overwrites the current tab. I have Tabs configured in the Prefs.

I assume that what you're talking about is: Open a Bookmark directory from the apps Bookmarks Strip by clicking it's title, press CMD key, click on a bookmark.

I'm running v2.0 of Safari.

Originally Posted by Gavin

You have to set up tabbed browsing in the settings, then it works like Thinine said.

[Helmling]

You know, I didn't even realize that Safari could do tabbed browsing. I just turned it on for a minute, but I don't see how I'd use it. I like Expose, especially now that it's bound to my middle button on the Mighty Mouse.

God I love that gizmo.

[stinch]

The right-click menu doesn't have "back" or "reload" items when viewing images.

If you select some text and hold the command key while right-clicking "Search in google" will open the google search in a new tab. Do the same with an unlinked url such as http://www.google.com/ and use "Go to address" and it opens in the same window not a new tab.

[brettcamp]

I should add to my earlier post this request: that holding down the command key when selecting a site from the History menu open that site in a new window. In other words, give the command key a consistent "open new tab" function, whether in bookmarks menu, bookmarks bar, or history.