[asxless]

My wife and I have several "joint" POP email accounts that we use with friends and family. We currently use Entourage but would like to switch to Mail or Thunderbird.

Maybe I have just missed the correct combination of settings...

But neither of these alternative Email clients seem to have the ability to manage a 'joint' POP account effectively. Specifically, they do not appear to have the ability to delete individual emails on the server _after_ they have been filtered into various folders (e.g. SPAM, Me, My Wife, etc).

Currently we both have Entourage set to leave to messages on the server until we explicitly delete them. We also have heavy duty filters that sort our mail and shunt most SPAM into a spam folder. But occasionally these filters shunt some real email too. So we manually skim the SPAM folder before deleting the spam off the server and discarding it from our own computers.

With these settings, for example....
I can check the mail on a 'joint' POP account and delete the recent SPAM off the server _after_ it has been sorted into the SPAM folder, so my wife doesn't have to deal with it. Then I can read the 'joint' mail and delete (off my computer) any that doesn't involve me (specifically) WITHOUT deleting it off the server. This allows my wife to still see/download the 'joint' email when she gets a chance to check email. Of course by then there will some more SPAM and she gets to return the SPAM trashing favor.

What makes this work is the little yellow flag that Entourage places beside email that is still on the server and its ability to delete any single piece of email regardless of whether it is still "in the Inbox".

Is there some combination of settings that will allow us to do roughly the same thing in either Mail or Thunderbird?

Thanks in advance -- asxless in iLand

[philm]

Originally Posted by asxless

Specifically, they do not appear to have the ability to delete individual emails on the server _after_ they have been filtered into various folders (e.g. SPAM, Me, My Wife, etc).

You can do this very nicely in Mail.app:

[asxless]

Originally Posted by philm

You can do this very nicely in Mail.app:

Maybe it wasn't clear that my wife and I use _different_ computers.

Obviously Mail and Thunderbird can remove ALL of the messages from the server after they have been downloaded. And Mail offers an addded feature of waiting until you move them out of the inbox. BUT... That is NOT what we want to do. The whole idea of a "joint" Email account is to LEAVE the messages on the server until the 2nd person, using their own computer, has a chance to download them. AND each of the joint users can delete any of the email off of _thier own computer_ without affecting the other joint user.

FWIW I also realize that both Mail And Thunderbird allow setting a time limit for deleting messages left on the server. BUT... this makes the BOTH users of the account have to deal with ALL of the SPAM.

To be clear... what Entrouge allows us to do is have only ONE of us deal with each piece of SPAM and yet BOTH of us still retrieve all of the good email to our own computer, even if one of us is away for several days/weeks, etc. AND either of us can delete any email off of our own computer without affecting the other one.

-- asxless in iLand

Edit: clarification.

[madmacgames]

to manage mail across more than 1 computer, you'll have far better luck using IMAP than POP.

[asxless]

Originally Posted by madmacgames

to manage mail across more than 1 computer, you'll have far better luck using IMAP than POP.

Thanks for the tip. But our ISP provides us with 10 POP accounts which we've had for nearly a decade. So our friends already know their names.

BTW even though IMAP acounts work well between 2 _computers_, They do not really address the 'joint' account issues much better than POP becaue 'joint' accounts require something different than keeping the email on two computers in sync. In fact a "joint account" requires that the two computers can access all the email and NOT be in sync.

Apple's Mail application works quite well with IMAP accounts and somewhat less so with POP accounts. Shockingly enough, Apple's commercial .mac accounts are IMAP

-- asxless in iLand

[madmacgames]

you don't have to change addresses. POP and IMAP are connection protocols. You should check if your ISP provides IMAP access to your email accounts. All of my email accounts, I can access with either POP or IMAP.

FYI, you probably have trouble with setting up POP access across multiple machines to work how you want because POP is not designed for that; IMAP is.

[asxless]

Originally Posted by madmacgames

you don't have to change addresses. POP and IMAP are connection protocols. You should check if your ISP provides IMAP access to your email accounts. All of my email accounts, I can access with either POP or IMAP.

FYI, you probably have trouble with setting up POP access across multiple machines to work how you want because POP is not designed for that; IMAP is.

Thanks again for the 'enlightenment'. FWIW I already knew the difference between an email address and an email protocol. From my ISP's website.

"I want to use a different Email program, what information do I need?

If you are using a third party software, be sure that it is POP3 compliant. The information you need to configure the software is as follows:...".

Oh, and since I also have several .mac IMAP accounts, maybe you would like to explain how using IMAP solves these "joint account" management issues:

1- Two people, using two different computers, want to access all of the 'good' email coming into the joint account asynchronously (up to weeks different in time)

2- They both want to deal with any SPAM only once (i.e. if one deletes it, the other never sees it).

3- They each want to manage (e.g. read, reply, save, etc.) a unique subset of the incoming email on their computer without affecting the other's access to the 'good' email.

Thanks in advance --asxless in iLand

[clam2000]

One though would be to see if you're able to create subfolders in your inbox. this will allow for the seperation you want while keeping them on the server.

also, even if your isp doesn't advertise it, it may offer imap (i've been in that situation once, and it was nice to have the option)

the other thing to take a look at is a piece of software called zoe

http://zoe.nu/

zoe will download the mail from your pop, and then act as a second server, so both of your computers can connect to it and use it for their server. as a bonus it has a very cool web interface for viewing your mail as well.

[asxless]

First. Thanks to everyone who has read and thought about this issue. And a big thank you to those who have posted ideas.

Originally Posted by clam2000

One though would be to see if you're able to create subfolders in your inbox. this will allow for the seperation you want while keeping them on the server.

We already do this. The question is how to use Mail or Thunderbird to do what we _already_ do with Entourage.

also, even if your isp doesn't advertise it, it may offer imap (i've been in that situation once, and it was nice to have the option)

The issue is NOT POP vs IMAP. I already have both kinds of accounts via my ISP and .mac. In fact, I really think IMAP is actually _worse_ at handling the 'joint email account' issue. AFAIK IMAP is designed to keep the email on multiple computers in sync. What we want is for the email on multiple computers to be out of sync. Please see my previous post. I'd be happy to admit I was wrong if you (or someone else) can show otherwise

the other thing to take a look at is a piece of software called zoe

http://zoe.nu/

zoe will download the mail from your pop, and then act as a second server, so both of your computers can connect to it and use it for their server. as a bonus it has a very cool web interface for viewing your mail as well.

This would be a very interesting option if my wife and I were on the same LAN. But recently I've been building our country place several hundred miles away 5 days a week. So the solution has to work over the internet with her on broadband and me on dial-up (BARF).

-- asxless in iLand

[clam2000]

Originally Posted by axsless

Originally Posted by clam2000

the other thing to take a look at is a piece of software called zoe

http://zoe.nu/

zoe will download the mail from your pop, and then act as a second server, so both of your computers can connect to it and use it for their server. as a bonus it has a very cool web interface for viewing your mail as well.

This would be a very interesting option if my wife and I were on the same LAN. But recently I've been building our country place several hundred miles away 5 days a week. So the solution has to work over the internet with her on broadband and me on dial-up (BARF).

If the broadband computer has a static IP address, or alternatively through a dynamic dns service you would likely still be able to make this work.



I don't think that either mail or thunderbird will be able to do what you want with a pop account.
-----
Here is the situation i would imagine you using in an imap solution:

both users use Mail, they both have a set of rules differentiating the good mail into two subfolders, one for you one for your wife.

as mail comes in, it will be moved into the sub folders, each of you will be able to see all of that mail, and reply to what concerns you.

junk mail will go into a third subfolder in the inbox (this is in mail preferences to change where the junk folder is). when the message is deleted by either of you it will be removed from the server, and the other user will never have to deal with it.

Mail will keep a cache of you mail on the harddrive, so that you can save /edit / ect. when you are off line, and the next time you reconnect it will sync with the server.

[asxless]

Thanks for your input.

Originally Posted by clam2000

If the broadband computer has a static IP address, or alternatively through a dynamic dns service you would likely still be able to make this work.

I run a pretty hardened firewall and am not willing to open it up just to avoid using Entourage

I don't think that either mail or thunderbird will be able to do what you want with a pop account.
-----
Here is the situation i would imagine you using in an imap solution:

both users use Mail, they both have a set of rules differentiating the good mail into two subfolders, one for you one for your wife.

as mail comes in, it will be moved into the sub folders, each of you will be able to see all of that mail, and reply to what concerns you.

junk mail will go into a third subfolder in the inbox (this is in mail preferences to change where the junk folder is). when the message is deleted by either of you it will be removed from the server, and the other user will never have to deal with it.

Mail will keep a cache of you mail on the harddrive, so that you can save /edit / ect. when you are off line, and the next time you reconnect it will sync with the server.

This is an interesting idea. I'l give it a try. But first I'll need a little clarification.

If I understand your proposal, my wife & I would actually be keeping our two computers in sync via the IMAP email server. So everything in our 'good mail' subfolders would need to be maintained on the email server. And hence would be available to both of us. And the resulting outgoing messages (replies, etc.) would (could) be visible to both of us. BTW this is the exact opposite of what we now achieve via Entourage and POP mail. The POP server has _none_ of the good (or SPAM) email; our computers end up with very different subsets of the 'good mail'; and we have no access to each other's replies (i.e. Sent mail). Maybe this new way will be better

FWIW I've already built the 'good mail' subfolders (at both the IMAP server and local computer levels) on one of our .mac accounts and will keep you posted on the results

Thanks again -- asxless