[TETENAL]

Media Center is so far ahead of Front Row from a functional perspective that the two products are hard to compare. Front Row doesn't include the DVR and television features offered by Media Center, isn't backed by a massive collection of online services and add-on features, can't be remoted to other televisions around the home with Media Center Extenders or Xboxes, and doesn't offer a way to view any of its content on the go unless you're lucky enough to own the single, recently-released iPod product that supports video. And even then, Front Row doesn't offer native device synchronization, CD and DVD burning and ripping, and other functionality. There's a reason Front Row has just six buttons. It doesn't do much.

http://www.winsupersite.com/reviews/apple_frontrow.asp

Discuss this interesting article. There seems to be a lot of valid criticism. Is Front Row too few too late?

[chabig]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Is Front Row too few too late?

Ask Microsoft.

Was the iPod too late (it wasn't the first music player)?
Was Windows 95 too late (9 years after Mac)?
Was Internet Explorer too late (remember Netscape)?

Come on. This guy is a Microsoft shill. Front Row is at version 1. More Windows users than Mac users have iPods. They're switching from Windows to Mac in large numbers. If Apple adds some of those "missing" features to Front Row and packages it well, people will switch. Personally, I don't know a single person who uses a Media PC.

Chris

[jasong]

Also, TextEdit is not a Word challenger. Oh wait, it's not meant to be.

[OreoCookie]

FrontRow is missing on some features, that's for sure, but the one you have seem to work well (I'll see for myself once my MacBook Pro arrives ). I've read the article and it seems fine.

[production_coordinator]

NEWS FLASH: 4+ Year Old Product Has More Features than New Product... Film at 11!

[Horsepoo!!!]

Running Media Center, however, implies that you're running Windows XP...and that's no good.

[analogika]

And even then, Front Row doesn't offer native device synchronization, CD and DVD burning and ripping, and other functionality. There's a reason Front Row has just six buttons. It doesn't do much.

That's mostly because Macs have all done all these things since long BEFORE Front Row - which is only the part that actually requires a remote.

The DVR/TV criticism I can see.

[mduell]

The products have different purposes and are in different stages of development.

Media Center is designed to let you do "everything" on a HTPC. Front Row is a cheap/quick/easy way to get 10 foot access to a few Apple apps.
Media Center has been out and revised for ~3 years. Front Row is new and not even offered on all models yet.

Eventually I'd expect Front Row to mature into something closer to Media Center. Now that CableCARD has been agreed on, I wouldn't be surprised to see HDTV tuners as an option in Macs in a year or so.

analogika: Anything that can be done in Media Center can be done in OSX, but that isn't the point. The point is doing it all from 10 feet away.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by mduell

analogika: Anything that can be done in Media Center can be done in OSX, but that isn't the point. The point is doing it all from 10 feet away.

Wouldn't you need to walk up to the unit to put in a blank CD-R or DVD-R for burning anyway?

[Chuckit]

He seems to imply that needing something to watch Front Row movies on when you're away from your home is a minus for the Mac. How does Media Center do this? Does it transmit into your brain? Do you start seeing sexy blonde chicks telling you you're the hand of God?

[goMac]

For once, Thurrott is right. MCE is very far ahead of Front Row, and Front Row is nothing but nice OpenGL fluff that controls existing applications. MCE actually adds new functionality to the system. I can't say the same about Front Row.

[tooki]

Uh hello, that article is from October, and written by a MS lap dog. Whatever good points the article may have have been discussed copiously since then, and many of them addressed by third-party apps.

tooki

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

FrontRow is missing on some features, that's for sure, but the one you have seem to work well

I don't think the existing features work well; I agree with the author of the article here. It's kind of lame, that you first have to wait 10 seconds to launch iTunes before you can hear your music in Front Row, that you have to launch all the different applications in the background. The article is sort of wrong that those applications that Front Row uses are not "modular" though. Music and video playback is handled by QuickTime, DVD playback is handled by DVD playback framework. Most of the code is outside the actual applications anyway, and integrating it into Front Row wouldn't blote it, but make the experience much better.

Also a TV and VCR functionality is a feature that is really missing from Front Row. That's really something that is done from remote. I agree that DVD burning from remote is kind of silly.

[G5man]

MacWorld had an article about FrontRow versus media center and they believe that the Apple Remote maybe too little because some of the buttons have to be multipurpose. FrontRow has potential of becoming greater that Media Center, it just is a matter of time when Apple can get something that applies to "think different".

[analogika]

Originally Posted by mduell

analogika: Anything that can be done in Media Center can be done in OSX, but that isn't the point. The point is doing it all from 10 feet away.

Name ONE thing apart from DVR and TV that MCE has over Front Row where operating it from 10 feet away makes the slightest bit of sense.


Actually, if you can think of more than one, please share. I'm genuinely interested.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by chabig

Ask Microsoft.

Was the iPod too late (it wasn't the first music player)?
Was Windows 95 too late (9 years after Mac)?
Was Internet Explorer too late (remember Netscape)?

Come on. This guy is a Microsoft shill. Front Row is at version 1. More Windows users than Mac users have iPods. They're switching from Windows to Mac in large numbers. If Apple adds some of those "missing" features to Front Row and packages it well, people will switch. Personally, I don't know a single person who uses a Media PC.

Chris

I'm not sure it matters whether media center or front row is more advanced. Its my understanding that both of these applications are intermediate steps by their respective companines to integrate your computer with your entertainment center. From what I've heard, neither front row or media center have accomplished this yet.

Right now I'm not putting my computer in the living room with a remote and a cable hookup and surfing through channels.

[mpancha]

i agree with Zeeb.

maybe someday when Front Row is more advanced, or MCE works in a Mini sized package I'll consider putting a unit in with my entertainment center. Until then, the Xbox I modded back in college still doees the job better than both FR and MCE combined.

[TETENAL]

Seems like the new Intel Mac minis get an updated Front Row with Bonjour support.

[ghporter]

The first two or three itterations of Media Center-both the media specific parts AND the OS extensions were, shall we say "shakey" at best. Ok, let's say they were buggy-really buggy in version 1.0. Now, is FrontRow "buggy?" Didn't think so. Is it well integrated with the OS when it needs to be? Yep. Fine then; it doesn't have everything Media Center does, but that includes the problems with Media Center.

By the way, I'd go with a properly equipped home-built PC using Snapstream's software and a Haupage tuner card over most Media Center PCs even now. Snapstream gets it while MS well, just doesn't.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by analogika

Name ONE thing apart from DVR and TV that MCE has over Front Row where operating it from 10 feet away makes the slightest bit of sense.

Actually, if you can think of more than one, please share. I'm genuinely interested.

Take your pick: burn a CD/DVD, sync a mobile device, import pictures from a camera, listen to FM radio (with record/rewind/fast forward/etc), listen to XM radio, play Solitare, check the weather, sing karaoke, view caller ID, add to/manage your Netflix queue, check RSS feeds, play sodoku, watch Reuters news, have a VOIP chat, download/watch VOD, browse/bid on eBay, look at your address book... most of those are free, some cost money.

Now before you say "it doesn't make sense to do that from 10' away!" remember that MCE is designed for HTPCs with large low resolution displays that you don't want to look at from a foot away; it makes sense to do it from 10' away when you don't inherently have a normal display like the iMac and MBP do.

[milhous]

i get the feeling that jobs doesn't want to make an MCE-killer. otherwise, we would've seen exactly that with the new mini.

either that, or they need more time to make such a system complete in another revision. just a guess.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by mduell

Take your pick: burn a CD/DVD, sync a mobile device, import pictures from a camera, listen to FM radio (with record/rewind/fast forward/etc), listen to XM radio, play Solitare, check the weather, sing karaoke, view caller ID, add to/manage your Netflix queue, check RSS feeds, play sodoku, watch Reuters news, have a VOIP chat, download/watch VOD, browse/bid on eBay, look at your address book... most of those are free, some cost money.

Now before you say "it doesn't make sense to do that from 10' away!" remember that MCE is designed for HTPCs with large low resolution displays that you don't want to look at from a foot away; it makes sense to do it from 10' away when you don't inherently have a normal display like the iMac and MBP do.

Media Center does all that? Is it a media center or a bloat center? What the hell does VOIP chat, RSS feeds, Sudoku, Solitaire, eBay and address books have anything to do with 'media'?

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by milhous

i get the feeling that jobs doesn't want to make an MCE-killer. otherwise, we would've seen exactly that with the new mini.

either that, or they need more time to make such a system complete in another revision. just a guess.

I think you're right...I don't think Jobs wants a bloated mess that is MCE.

Keep media seperate from the rest of the computer. Media in this sense is anything visual or audible that doesn't require user input every 0.001 to 30 seconds.

If Apple creates an MCE clone, it can kiss my money goodbye.

[Horsepoo!!!]

If there's anything to remember from all this, it's that MS has a total lack of business focus. It's trying too hard to penetrate too many markets at once. Tablets, gaming, media centers...it never stops with MS. Now there are overlaps with the 360 and MCEs. How the hell does MS make money when the lossleader par excellence xbox 360 can cannibalize MCE sales? Really...MS ****ed up good, real good. Make a few more markets of this nature and they'll be out of business in about 10 years unless the wisen up.

[kcmac]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Media Center does all that? Is it a media center or a bloat center? What the hell does VOIP chat, RSS feeds, Sudoku, Solitaire, eBay and address books have anything to do with 'media'?

It's the features man! They got a million of 'em!

Someday, M$ will do a survey of their users, ask them what new features they want in Media Center, find out that the features they are requesting are already included, and then make a new interface that...

oops, they just did that with Office 12.

While I like where Front Row is headed, until it is all wireless streaming and I don't have to have my computer anywhere near my TV, I'm on the sidelines.

[JLL]

Originally Posted by kcmac

While I like where Front Row is headed, until it is all wireless streaming and I don't have to have my computer anywhere near my TV, I'm on the sidelines.

We need a Front Row enables AirPort Express!!!

Come on Apple - release it. D.Link has something like it, but Macs aren't UPnP compatible.

[mpancha]

Originally Posted by JLL

We need a Front Row enables AirPort Express!!!

Come on Apple - release it. D.Link has something like it, but Macs aren't UPnP compatible.

doesn't the new intel mini + FR do that?

[JLL]

Starting at $599 you get a computer that you have to maintain, boot and so on just to use about 1% of it capabilities.

It's a pretty expensive way to stream music, photos and video from your main computer to your living room.

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

Originally Posted by mduell

Eventually I'd expect Front Row to mature into something closer to Media Center. Now that CableCARD has been agreed on, I wouldn't be surprised to see HDTV tuners as an option in Macs in a year or so..

If I were Apple and I wanted to transform FrontRow into a Media Center, I think ti would be smartest to have a $200 external box that would link up via FireWire with any Mac.

[OAW]

Originally Posted by JLL

Starting at $599 you get a computer that you have to maintain, boot and so on just to use about 1% of it capabilities.

It's a pretty expensive way to stream music, photos and video from your main computer to your living room.

Exactly. I and a lot of other people it seems don't want all that. What I want is a simple home theater component that has a remote, Front Row, a HD to store media content, and a DVD-R. It does not need to do email, surf the web, perform word processing, etc. The content stored on it should be accessible to any other Mac in the network via Bonjour. A DVR would be nice but until CableCard technology is rolled out there's no point because it won't be able to automatically tune to the right channel when it needs to record. (Get a dual-tuner satellite receiver with an integrated DVR and see just how simple and seamless it is. I don't see how people with a standalone Tivo can stand it!) Besides, it would need to be dual-tuner to be worth the bother and that would definitely make the device more complex and more expensive. I'm cool with letting my satellite receiver take care of the DVR functionality for me. I would like Apple to release a device to handle the rest of the media I utilize. The new Mac Mini can do it ... but it sure seems like overkill for home theater duty.

OAW

[eevyl]

Originally Posted by mduell

Take your pick: burn a CD/DVD, sync a mobile device, import pictures from a camera, listen to FM radio (with record/rewind/fast forward/etc), listen to XM radio, play Solitare, check the weather, sing karaoke, view caller ID, add to/manage your Netflix queue, check RSS feeds, play sodoku, watch Reuters news, have a VOIP chat, download/watch VOD, browse/bid on eBay, look at your address book... most of those are free, some cost money.

Now before you say "it doesn't make sense to do that from 10' away!" remember that MCE is designed for HTPCs with large low resolution displays that you don't want to look at from a foot away; it makes sense to do it from 10' away when you don't inherently have a normal display like the iMac and MBP do.

It's not about sense, you must have a long arm to feed the MCE a blank CD/DVD from 10 feet! or really really good aim ...

[mduell]

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Media Center does all that? Is it a media center or a bloat center? What the hell does VOIP chat, RSS feeds, Sudoku, Solitaire, eBay and address books have anything to do with 'media'?

Some of it is built-in, some of it is via free third party plugins.

Media Center is moving toward being able to do everything you would normally do on a computer, from the couch. It's not just a glorified PVR.

[kcmac]

Originally Posted by mduell

Some of it is built-in, some of it is via free third party plugins.

Media Center is moving toward being able to do everything you would normally do on a computer, from the couch. It's not just a glorified PVR.

And I don't understand what makes that good...

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by mduell

Some of it is built-in, some of it is via free third party plugins.

Media Center is moving toward being able to do everything you would normally do on a computer, from the couch. It's not just a glorified PVR.

But I already have SEVERAL computers to do all the other stuff with. I WANT a PVR with enough features to put all the video tasks in one box-and not much else. That's the whole point. Microsoft wants EVERY SINGLE COMPUTER RUNNING MCE to be the ONLY computer. WHY? That's certainly not whast I want.

[TETENAL]

Why the was this moved to the Applications forum? Front Row is not an application. It's an OS component.

[Chuckit]

I'd say it's an application in the same way that Finder is an application.

[Horsepoo!!!]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'd say it's an application in the same way that Finder is an application.

Uh sure...but then again, windowserver is an application, Dashboard is an application, the Dock is an application, Spotlight is an application, the Classic environment is an application...why are they allowed in the OS X forum?

[zro]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I'd say it's an application in the same way that Finder is an application.

I wouldn't. Not even close. Every Mac and every OS X has a Finder. Not all have a Front Row. In fact, none of mine do.