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loren s · May 3, 2006, 10:02 PM

I have yet to see any real use of core image yet... Photoshop does notlook like the will try at all.. and the only thing I found simi starting up the trys is http://www.chocoflop.com/ but not really going anywhere

Soo whats tha deal ?? Motion I hear is using it's own thing and not the inbuilt core image stuff..
3d apps still do basic 3d things cpu render and all...

Catfish_Man · May 3, 2006, 11:40 PM

CoreImage is not useful for 3D stuff. Most apps still have to support systems other than 10.4.

CharlesS · May 4, 2006, 01:06 AM

Originally Posted by Catfish_Man

Most apps still have to support systems other than 10.4.

This is the clincher. Unfortunately, developers who utilize the latest APIs in their apps, and consequently require the latest OS version for their apps to run, often get angry e-mails from non-technical users who have no idea what CoreImage is (or what they're talking about in general), accompanied by one-star ratings on VersionTracker that say things like "This app doesn't work in Panther because of lazy programmers!!"

Blame those guys.

Spliff · May 4, 2006, 03:28 AM

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Blame those guys.

Assholes!

loren s · May 4, 2006, 01:07 PM

So is that it ? Is that the final reason ? Due to bad users use of panther ???

Thats going to be the stoping pick in production ??

CatOne · May 4, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by loren s

So is that it ? Is that the final reason ? Due to bad users use of panther ???

Thats going to be the stoping pick in production ??

Over time, it will change. Photoshop doesn't use it because the most recent version of Photoshop came out just before 10.4 shipped. Well, that and they have a huge amount of "legacy" code and they have a lot of Windows/Mac feature parity they must maintain.

Adobe's new beta imaging product, Lightroom, I don't think uses Core Image either, but it *does* use Core Data so it requires 10.4 (and people complained). Aperture leverages Core Image; but then again a lot of people are complaining that Aperture requires new, expensive hardware (which is true, but it's a pro application).

The main impediment, though, is people that are still on 10.3.9 and earlier versions of the OS. Once companies see that a sufficient number of their customers are on 10.4 for them to safely "ignore" 10.3.9 and earlier due to lack of business impact, I suspect we'll see more adopters. Developers can't afford to "ignore" 30% of their potential market, especially on the Mac platform which is small relative to Windows. You need to find a *lot* of buyers of a product at $50 to $100 a pop to bring in enough to run a small company -- which for a 5 person shop let's say requires $1M/year in income to pay salaries, insurance, health care, and office costs.

The Omni Group has a web page where they track the OS each of their apps runs on. When you do an update check it sends back OS info for this purpose (of course, this also means people thought they were the Soviet Army or the US Government when Little Snitch threw a flag to the effect ;-)

Horsepoo!!! · May 4, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by loren s

I have yet to see any real use of core image yet... Photoshop does notlook like the will try at all.. and the only thing I found simi starting up the trys is http://www.chocoflop.com/ but not really going anywhere

Soo whats tha deal ?? Motion I hear is using it's own thing and not the inbuilt core image stuff..
3d apps still do basic 3d things cpu render and all...

Wow...hadn't heard of ChocoFlop but I'm curious about what you meant by "not really going anywhere".

Seems to be progressing fast.

If the interface was cleaned up a little and if the developer could work out the CI bugs with Apple this could be a potential Photoshop-killer. This app was built by one man...(well 2 or 3 if we want to get technical) and it's already starting to resemble like a very basic Photoshop.

Oh...and the developer has to stop forcing "Growl" down people's throats.

Like CatOne and others have explained...CoreImage requires:

• 10.4
• Fairly recent hardware (fast CPU and most importantly a fast vertex-shading and pixel-shading capable GPU)

A year from now...a lot of people should have that combo.

Thinine · May 4, 2006, 03:49 PM

Part of the problem with CI is that many filters can get different results on different hardware, and when run in hardware and software modes. This is bad.

Eug Wanker · May 4, 2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Horsepoo!!!

Like CatOne and others have explained...CoreImage requires:

• 10.4
• Fairly recent hardware (fast CPU and most importantly a fast vertex-shading and pixel-shading capable GPU)

CPU fallback

In fact, Aperture even has CPU fallback, although you can't actually use it since Aperture won't run on unsupported hardware. (With a hack, it ran on my GeForce 2 MX Cube, and all the Core Image features worked.)

JKT · May 4, 2006, 05:02 PM

Graphic Converter,
Image Tricks,
Live Image,
iPhoto,
iMovie,

all use Core Image (or Video).

Catfish_Man · May 4, 2006, 05:11 PM

Originally Posted by loren s

So is that it ? Is that the final reason ? Due to bad users use of panther ???

Thats going to be the stoping pick in production ??

A lot of apps are being held back by the *Jaguar* users. Adium is only dropping 10.2 in the upcoming release, and it let us delete several thousand lines of compatibility hacks, as well as speeding up a few places and fixing a few bugs. Being able to do 10.4-only apps for the mass market is still a dream for many developers.

Horsepoo!!! · May 4, 2006, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

CPU fallback

In fact, Aperture even has CPU fallback, although you can't actually use it since Aperture won't run on unsupported hardware. (With a hack, it ran on my GeForce 2 MX Cube, and all the Core Image features worked.)

Yeah...but the CPU fallback is way too painful. Photo Booth is terrible on computers with old GPUs. Imaginator is slow. Effects just aren't real-time. You can't expect people to like a CoreImage app when it's installed on an older Mac.

That's exactly why Aperture has such high reqs.

CatOne · May 4, 2006, 07:15 PM

Originally Posted by Catfish_Man

A lot of apps are being held back by the *Jaguar* users. Adium is only dropping 10.2 in the upcoming release, and it let us delete several thousand lines of compatibility hacks, as well as speeding up a few places and fixing a few bugs. Being able to do 10.4-only apps for the mass market is still a dream for many developers.

A freeware app being held back by Jaguar users?

f 'em!

loren s · May 4, 2006, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by CatOne

A freeware app being held back by Jaguar users?

f 'em!

Now on that all. I have yet to see ANYONE use core video other than apple..
Okay I get why a developer that wants to make an income wont touch CI,, But what of others that just want to create with code ??
No experiments ??

even just a bare basic Motion ? Using motion I have found it's weird... It's l;ike GPU graphics, but it's slow even on fast cards.. like if all you do it drag in a video layer that plays fast in Quicktime it will stutter in motion on first play.. Somethjing funny there..

But in apples Quartz composer it pplays so fast .. Like a real game .. thats also where CI is in true 3d...

So I guess what i'm getting at is ... Will anyone try and use this new tech CI and stuff for advanced graphics apps ??