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Love Calm Quiet · Jun 20, 2006, 06:54 PM

The wife and I reflexly use Safari (I find FireFox kinda ugly anyway). She does the airline ticket searches. Repeatedly air travel sites either refuse or CHOKE on Safari (usually after tons of info has been entered and we are counting on verge of scoring a good ticket).

American Airlines: we called tech support and they said, "Nope! TS: use something else."

Now she's just tried "OneTravel" - and clicking on "buy ticket" just returns her to a blank form where she can *select* a new reservation

What sort of ^%$#$ programming can't even do a sticky form / submit process that'll work in all browsers? Are they using such "HOT" technology that Safari just can't keep up with?

[Here's just hoping it'll work on FireFox: otherwise she's on verge of driving to pub.lib to use a PC... ]

But... to bash Apple's Safari team with doubt: what in the world are *they* doing that they still play catch-up with some of FireFox's flexibility/universality?

Adam Betts · Jun 20, 2006, 07:13 PM

You need to post Safari version, problematic links and OS version so we can help you.

You could try Opera 9.0 as alternative browser:
http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?ver=9.0b

Eug Wanker · Jun 20, 2006, 07:15 PM

Air Canada and Via Rail both have problems with Safari too.

I strictly use Firefox when booking tix online. IIRC though, WestJet works fine in Safari.

Love Calm Quiet · Jun 20, 2006, 07:24 PM

UPDATE:
Well, it's not exactly Safari at OneTravel... Their "non-sticky" form is a reflection of the fact that the select flight/fare is no longer available. ...as is true of most of the other "bargains" listed at Mobissimo.

Apparently OneTravel, Obitz, etc. don't update their databases very often: you have to visit them and request the ticket before they actually connect to the airline and discover it's gone. Talk about IT departments run by hamsters

But wife has also updated me about Delta Air: they don't even keep their own info up to date! Mild-manner she even email an outraged complaint. That's okay... they won't be flying much longer. Where's Mussolini when ya need im? heh heh

mduell · Jun 20, 2006, 07:26 PM

Slightly offtopic: I suggest using matrix.itasoftware.com to find the ticket you want (note: it doesn't cover jetBlue or Southwest), then book it at the airline website.

Love Calm Quiet · Jun 20, 2006, 07:31 PM

Originally Posted by Adam Betts

You need to post Safari version, problematic links and OS version so we can help you.

You could try Opera 9.0 as alternative browser:
http://www.opera.com/download/index.dml?ver=9.0b

Safari Version 2.0.3 (417.8)

But (last we checked) American Airlines didn't even PLAN to accommodate ANY Safari. What a sweet way for them to say "Up YOUR pleasure!" I tell you, when Southwest arrives closer to us we'll cry crocodile tears as we miss American Airlines' Customer DisService (and DFW's "no Coke... Pepsi!" arrogance).

"The customer is always ________" What was that lie again?

BTW: I finally dumped my version of Opera because I could never figure out what I would do in certain OTHER apps that would cause Opera to launch on its own. I do use FireFox as an alt, though you know how it is when you use one piece of software for production 8 hrs/day.

Love Calm Quiet · Jun 20, 2006, 07:37 PM

Originally Posted by mduell

Slightly offtopic: I suggest using matrix.itasoftware.com to find the ticket you want (note: it doesn't cover jetBlue or Southwest), then book it at the airline website.

Thanks - that's right on MY agenda!

Eug Wanker · Jun 20, 2006, 07:38 PM

I tell every new switcher I come across to download Firefox. I specifically tell them in advance to use Firefox when buying tickets, precisely because so many sites choke on Safari.

Hell, even MacNN chokes on Safari sometimes. Safari seems to be overzealous in the caching, which can sometimes cause problems when editing MacNN posts.

Sage · Jun 20, 2006, 09:27 PM

I’ve had similarly bad experiences with online job applications – I literally lost three online job apps because of programmer screw-ups.

For one of them, I was about half an hour into it, and then it suddenly said “System time out. Please restart your application.” I hadn’t taken a long time on any particular page, and there was no mention of any time limits, but lo and behold this dumb thing managed to lose everything.

For another one, it was completely Javascript-driven (stupid!), but at least it worked in Safari. Well, until I got about forty minutes into it – then one of the pages had a missing HTML tag, which caused all of the Javascript code to be rendered onscreen, thus making it unusable. No buttons to do anything, just a bunch of Javascript code. Wonderful. Couldn’t continue with the job app.

For the third one, it was again completely Javascript-based (how stupid are these people? haven’t they ever heard of HTML and PHP?), but didn’t work in Safari. So, I use Firefox. It’s working fine, la-da-da, then partway through I had to leave for a while, so I made a restart code and then exited. When I attempted to log back in about half an hour later, the stupid login button didn’t work. I looked through the source code, and found out that it wasn’t an [font=Courier]input[/font] element, like it should’ve been, but rather a [font=Courier]div[/font] that did invoked a Javascript method [font=Courier]onClick[/font]. Well, too bad the damn method didn’t work. So, I couldn’t finish this one either.

Some web programmers need to be shot in the face. How effing difficult is it to use proper HTML form elements?

[/rant]

Gavin · Jun 21, 2006, 05:00 AM

You might try using camino. It is basically firefox under the hood but with a more mac-like interface.

ghporter · Jun 21, 2006, 09:03 AM

And it's not the airlines-or their web builders-"hating Safari." It's the web designers' laziness. By using "IE/Windows" extensions, they manage to get their pages done faster-but these pages are NOT HTML compliant because they're full of MS-specific stupidity.

Here's an example. MS provides FrontPage almost for free (in a lot of cases it IS free), and you can very simply and easily produce web pages with it. But try building a page that just says "Hello, World!" and then look at the HTML code. It's HUGE, ugly, and full of unnecessary crap. Dreamweaver has a tool to undo all the crap that FrontPage puts into a page, but that's really only for maintenance of existing, FrontPage-generated pages. This is an example of why Safari doesn't work with some sites-they are simply not compliant because they were made with noncompliant tools. What ever happened to knowing what HTML did and using a text editor to create a page? Dumb designers happened, that's what.

addiecool · Jun 21, 2006, 10:18 AM

We need an online tool that will shoot the desingner who designed a stupid page whenever he log's in next to his computer. That way we keep getting rid of these so called web designers.

Coming to this....I had an argument with many web designers whose work do not work correct on alternate browsers (other than IE as per their language) and all they had to say was that "These browsers are non standard. Anything that is not IE comliant is non standard".

Then I showed them my MacBook Pro and they were like "WOW... do machines like theses exist???? WOW WOW WOW....

It clearly shows that stupid web designers live in a stupid windows world and their world has never seen something else.

Eug Wanker · Jun 21, 2006, 10:33 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

MS provides FrontPage almost for free (in a lot of cases it IS free), and you can very simply and easily produce web pages with it. But try building a page that just says "Hello, World!" and then look at the HTML code. It's HUGE, ugly, and full of unnecessary crap.

Sounds like iWeb.

Horsepoo!!! · 11:31 AM

How exactly and where exactly do these airline sites choke Safari?

I'm running the latest Safari build and everything seems to be fine. How far into the process do you have to be for Safari to exhibit problems?

Frankly, I wouldn't use Tiger's Safari...its code is almost a year and a half old. I can't wait 'till Apple makes an official release of what the Safari team has been doing for the past year and half.

If you're having problems, try this Safari build: http://forums.macnn.com/82/applications/298798/recommendable-safari-build/ It's stable, it's fast and it doesn't seem to choke on anything (I could be wrong...that's why I'm asking some people to check the problematic sites).

Tell me if it fixes anything ('course, there's nothing you can do when companies code browser filters into their sites to block specific browsers...if that happens, make Safari pretend it's IE.)

Eug Wanker · Jun 21, 2006, 12:01 PM

How exactly and where exactly do these airline sites choke Safari?

I'm running the latest Safari build and everything seems to be fine. How far into the process do you have to be for Safari to exhibit problems?

Depends on the website of course, but often times it's 3/4 into the process before it has problems. This is VERY irritating, considering it's often after you've entered all your personal data, and often what ends up happening is that the seat you've tried to book is no longer available even if you use a different browser... at least for 15 minutes, because that's how long the seat is reserved for.

For this reason, I usually use Firefox when booking a ticket, unless the site specifically says it supports Safari (or others have verified Safari works fine).

TheoCryst · Jun 21, 2006, 01:00 PM

See, problems like this are why I gave up and switched to Camino. The Mozilla core is compatable with anything that works in Firefox (hell, it practically is Firefox), but it doesn't stick out like a sore thumb like Ff. Granted, it's still lacking in a lot of areas (how hard can it be to frickin implement OS X spell checking and smooth scrolling???), but it gets the job done.

Love Calm Quiet · Jun 22, 2006, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Depends on the website of course, but often times it's 3/4 into the process before it has problems. This is VERY irritating, considering it's often after you've entered all your personal data, and often what ends up happening is that the seat you've tried to book is no longer available even if you use a different browser... at least for 15 minutes, because that's how long the seat is reserved for.

For this reason, I usually use Firefox when booking a ticket, unless the site specifically says it supports Safari (or others have verified Safari works fine).

I don't remember the specific sites now, but this is what my wife experiences (esp. with traval sites for some reason). No warning such as "Safari owners: don't even GO here!"

You have to wait to get well into the time-consuming process.

And the airlines (etc.) DO make a choice: THEY hire the "developer" - THEY set the requirements for what the web site should be able to do.

I'll say it again: some companies NEED to achieve their obvious long-pursued goals... and go out of business. Some airport monopolies, too.

besson3c · Jun 22, 2006, 05:35 PM

I've also been debating switching from OS X Mail to Thunderbird. In many ways, Thunderbird is the better client. It has several features missing in Mail: a great plug-in architecture, support for server side folder indexing on supporting servers (a much more elegant solution than Spotlight - esp. on large mailboxes), better PGP support in Enigmail, support for automatic checking for new messages in subfolders (great for shared mailboxes), the ability to choose which folders you want to subscribe to (also great for shared mailboxes), etc.

Like Firefox, it's not as Mac-like, but to me more and more it's becoming worth the tradeoff. Ditto for Firefox.

Eug Wanker · Jun 23, 2006, 05:22 AM

I have no problems with Apple Mail (although I don't like its aesthetics).

I'm starting to like Flock more and more though. Both Flock and Camino look much nicer than Firefox, but Flock has some extra interesting features.

Love Calm Quiet · Jun 24, 2006, 02:12 AM

Report back on WebKit:
It seems MUCH faster than Safari 2.03, yes. But it crashes (as of build couple days ago) a bunch more.
PLUS: The WebKit build gives me complaints for the DreamHost Control Panel that I seem to have cookies DISabled (though it doesn't say so in prefs) -- and so cannot process my USER/pw

This is a time I'd really LIKE to use WebKit because SAFARI on the DreamHost Control Panel has begun to show me the SOURCE code (!) - instead of parsing the code: not too helpful. But very weird. Anybody else on DH experience that? (FireFox is okeedokee with the DH Panel - not showing either those glitches. Anybody else have those bugs?