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besson3c · Jun 13, 2007, 04:34 PM

Why is Flash performance so poor under OS X? I'm watching a baseball within the Gameday applet on my Linux machine, and the animations never stutter or require nearly as much resources as they do on either PPC or Intel Macs.

I used to think that Flash was maybe more Windows optimized, but this doesn't explain why Flash performs far better under Linux.

Is this perhaps some sort of broader OS X bottleneck?

dn15 · Jun 13, 2007, 10:47 PM

Have you tried viewing the same content in different browsers? Do they all do the same thing?

C.A.T.S. CEO · Jun 14, 2007, 02:35 AM

Flash is much better in Safari 3 than Safari 2, I don't really know what you mean by it being better in Linux/Windows, I use Linux and it works/looks the same as in OS X.

Visnaut · Jun 14, 2007, 10:34 AM

Flash performance has always been inferior on Macs due to Macromedia never having optimized it as much as the Windows versions.

Things definitely started to improve with Flash 8 and when Adobe took over, and I believe they do at least some part of the rendering with OpenGL on the OSX client now.

But if you compare graphically intensive tasks on similarly equipped OSX and Windows machines, the Windows ones will win on any given day.

C.A.T.S. is right though, I think Safari 3 allots more processor time to plugins. I haven't tested on a Mac yet, but I've noticed an improvement of about 5-7 fps in the Windows version of Safari over even IE7 and FF2.

besson3c · Jun 14, 2007, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Visnaut

Flash performance has always been inferior on Macs due to Macromedia never having optimized it as much as the Windows versions.

Things definitely started to improve with Flash 8 and when Adobe took over, and I believe they do at least some part of the rendering with OpenGL on the OSX client now.

But if you compare graphically intensive tasks on similarly equipped OSX and Windows machines, the Windows ones will win on any given day.

C.A.T.S. is right though, I think Safari 3 allots more processor time to plugins. I haven't tested on a Mac yet, but I've noticed an improvement of about 5-7 fps in the Windows version of Safari over even IE7 and FF2.

So then why does Flash performance actually kill in Linux compared to OS X? Surely Macromedia didn't spend a whole lot of time optimizing the Linux version?

besson3c · Jun 14, 2007, 10:45 AM

Originally Posted by Visnaut

Flash performance has always been inferior on Macs due to Macromedia never having optimized it as much as the Windows versions.

Things definitely started to improve with Flash 8 and when Adobe took over, and I believe they do at least some part of the rendering with OpenGL on the OSX client now.

But if you compare graphically intensive tasks on similarly equipped OSX and Windows machines, the Windows ones will win on any given day.

C.A.T.S. is right though, I think Safari 3 allots more processor time to plugins. I haven't tested on a Mac yet, but I've noticed an improvement of about 5-7 fps in the Windows version of Safari over even IE7 and FF2.

I'll give Safari a go ASAP...

Visnaut · Jun 14, 2007, 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

So then why does Flash performance actually kill in Linux compared to OS X? Surely Macromedia didn't spend a whole lot of time optimizing the Linux version?

Haven't the foggiest. Perhaps it's a reflection of how badly implemented the Mac version is.

I'm pretty sure they've fixed this in Player 9/AS3, but in AS2, you can't access certain text kerning features if you compile on a mac, and the OSX client didn't support mouse wheel event detection.

besson3c · Jun 15, 2007, 07:52 PM

Just tested the Gameday Flash thing in Safari 3, it performs poorly there too, taking upwards of 50% of my CPU...

Thinine · Jun 15, 2007, 10:44 PM

What machine?

besson3c · Jun 15, 2007, 10:46 PM

Originally Posted by Thinine

What machine?

This particular machine is my Powerbook G4, but I've yet to find a Mac where Flash performed well on. I'm convinced that there is just something seriously messed up about OS X, or Flash, or both.

rickey939 · Jun 15, 2007, 10:50 PM

Yeah, it sucks.

Thinine · Jun 15, 2007, 10:56 PM

It is less optimized for the Mac, especially PPC ones, but they also use the old Netscape plugin format, which isn't optimal on the Mac either. Safari (especially 3 beta) should give you the best performance on the Mac, as Flash uses OpenGL compositing when running in Safari. Safari 3b (or a WebKit nightly) also lets Flash run in background tabs/windows, if you want to listen to stuff that way.

besson3c · Jun 15, 2007, 11:07 PM

Originally Posted by Thinine

It is less optimized for the Mac, especially PPC ones, but they also use the old Netscape plugin format, which isn't optimal on the Mac either. Safari (especially 3 beta) should give you the best performance on the Mac, as Flash uses OpenGL compositing when running in Safari. Safari 3b (or a WebKit nightly) also lets Flash run in background tabs/windows, if you want to listen to stuff that way.

Even with no animation occurring at a given moment, the thing consumes a ton of CPU power just to idle... I'm definitely inclined to agree with what you're saying about it being less optimized, but I come back to the question of why it performs just fine in Linux? Usually Linux drivers/ports of things are sort of the toss in efforts that come up short.

Weird.

DigitalEl · Jun 16, 2007, 04:54 PM

Watching Flash-based video using Safari causes my iMac's fans to come on so loud I have to up the volume on the video I'm watching. Watching the same video on my MacBook - or even on the iMac using Camino - is much less taxing.

1.8 GHz G5 w/1.5 GB RAM.

pooka · Jun 17, 2007, 02:06 PM

****. I thought this had been discussed years ago.

Find the stand-alone flash player for OS X. Open an SWF. Marvel at how impressive the performance is. Notice the lack of pegged cpu usage? Ok, now open the same swf in safari. Cry as performance is cut in half and you're systems case fans kick in to keep the cpus from melting.

Take a guess where the issue resides...

pooka · Jun 17, 2007, 02:44 PM

http://forums.macnn.com/82/applicati...lash-8-player/
Just wanted to illustrate that I have been patiently waiting for performance improvements since... oh sometime in 2001. Don't hold your breath.

besson3c · Jun 17, 2007, 04:45 PM

pooka: Don't you find it strange that the browser plug-in for Firefox/Mozilla in Linux doesn't have these performance problems?

Thinine · Jun 18, 2007, 10:19 PM

Linux's drawing model is also much less complicated than OS X's. Also, in order to get good performance for Flash, using the old plugin formate, Safari basically shoots the plugin null events (where Flash does its actual work) as fast as possible. Even if Flash isn't doing anything, sending those events can cost CPU.

besson3c · Jun 19, 2007, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by Thinine

Linux's drawing model is also much less complicated than OS X's. Also, in order to get good performance for Flash, using the old plugin formate, Safari basically shoots the plugin null events (where Flash does its actual work) as fast as possible. Even if Flash isn't doing anything, sending those events can cost CPU.

Complicated shouldn't mean incapable of scaling, but of course this comment has been made many a time.