[Veltliner]

I always used Safari on my PPC G5 Mac, never had a problem.

Now I started using Safari 2 on my 24" white intel iMac - problems, problems, problems.

Cannot get into my hotmail account. Starts switching around like crazy, and finally gets
1. to a page that displayed "windows live ID" not working (yesterday)
2. Safari cannot find server.

Used Opera, and could get into my hotmail account without any trouble.

Tried to get to Synhosting.com, a webhost. Result: Safari cannot find server.
Used Opera. No problem.

Long, long loading times.

What is the matter with Safari 2? I like Safari for its intuitiveness, but it's obviously not working.

Opera works, but its so unintuitive, and a very impractical organization. I also do not like the design - but at least it works.

[Art Vandelay]

Safari 2 is not junk but Safari 3 is much better. Not sure why you're having the problems you're having though. Go download Safari 3 Beta at Apple - Safari 3 Public Beta. The final Safari 3 should be released along with Leopard or soon after.

[Kevin]

Safari 2 isn't junk. But I'd use Safari 3 beta instead.

[Sherman Homan]

I think Safari 2 is aging poorly, but it works. Might just be a cache file having fits. Have you done the "Reset Safari" thing?

[Cold Warrior]

I'm much happier using Safari 3 beta than I ever was with Safari 2.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

Safari 2 is not junk but Safari 3 is much better. Not sure why you're having the problems you're having though. Go download Safari 3 Beta at Apple - Safari 3 Public Beta. The final Safari 3 should be released along with Leopard or soon after.

Thanks, George, for the link.

I'll get Safari 3.

[FireWire]

In my opinion, yes it is. I can't recall how many times I after it, because it beachballed anytime I looked at it.. Click on a link, wait.. Scroll down 2 lines on MacNN forum, wait.. It was driving me crazy. Fortunately Safari 3 works like a charm!

[.Neo]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

In my opinion, yes it is. I can't recall how many times I after it, because it beachballed anytime I looked at it.. Click on a link, wait.. Scroll down 2 lines on MacNN forum, wait.. It was driving me crazy. Fortunately Safari 3 works like a charm!

I don't experience any of those problems with Safari 2.0 and this forum. I can get into my Windows Live Hotmail account just fine as well.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by FireWire 

In my opinion, yes it is. I can't recall how many times I after it, because it beachballed anytime I looked at it.. Click on a link, wait.. Scroll down 2 lines on MacNN forum, wait.. It was driving me crazy. Fortunately Safari 3 works like a charm!

I think that was just the MacNN forum.

[Veltliner]

I'm on Safari 3.0.3 now, and still can't get into my hotmail account. When I try to access it, the browser switches like crazy between multiple addresses, which seem to belong to hotmail, and then I get the message, that log-in doesn't work, either because the site is down, or the site isn't a member of windows live, which it obviously is.

Also, the loading of MacNN's forum home page still takes 20 seconds. Maybe the server is busy right now, but...

... but I am on a very fast internet connection, downloading 40mb usually in a minute or so.

So I wonder what is the matter. Did I forget a file to take with me from the old computer which is now missing? Can't imagine that, because the bookmarks work, and Safari is a completely new software.

Generally, internet seems to be much slower now than on my G5. Endless loading times. Endless. I can speed it up a bit, by clicking "stop loading page" and then "reload".

[besson3c]

Veltliner: do these problems happen under a different OS X account? I'm outspoken about Safari 2 lacking, but for a completely different set of reasons (weak Javascript engine, memory leak happy, limited set of core features and lack of extensibility). It sounds like your problems may be due to preference file corruption or DNS caching or something. Redirecting pages have nothing to do with a browser's rendering engine.

I would try setting up Safari in a different account, and before you run it for the first time try a:

sudo lookupd -flushcache

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

Veltliner: do these problems happen under a different OS X account? I'm outspoken about Safari 2 lacking, but for a completely different set of reasons (weak Javascript engine, memory leak happy, limited set of core features and lack of extensibility). It sounds like your problems may be due to preference file corruption or DNS caching or something. Redirecting pages have nothing to do with a browser's rendering engine.

I would try setting up Safari in a different account, and before you run it for the first time try a:

sudo lookupd -flushcache

It obviously is as you said: because I am experiencing the same trouble with Safari 3.

"sudo lookupd - flushcache" seems to be a terminal command. I have never used the terminal. How do you go about using it?

And in case Safari works better from the second account, how can I repair the damage?

And why did it happen? Because I brought a Safari concerning plist and the Safari folder from the library with me from the G5 to the Intel?

[besson3c]

I don't know how much data Safari 2 and 3 share, but it is likely that the Safari cache data and possibly some other stuff is recycled/shared. By creating a new OS X account and trying it there, you'll remove any doubt.

If you are able to access the pages you need to access in another account, let us know, it save us from having to write stuff that may not apply for you.

Run the command I gave you by opening up your terminal and typing (or pasting in the command). Enter your OS X password as prompted. Remove the space after the dash (copy my command, not the one you quoted). Your Terminal is in your Utilities folder, inside your Applications folder.

Don't understand your last paragraph, sorry.

[adamfishercox]

How about you make a new account, and copy all of the files from their fresh Safari library folder over to yours. that should determine whether it is the G5 files or not.

[Veltliner]

Besson 3c, I set up a second account and gave it admin privileges.

Then I opened Terminal, and typed sudo lookupd-flushcache

I got the warning, that improper use of the sudo command could lead to the destruction of system files, and was asked for the password.

But I could not enter it. There was a grey square, but not blinking, like a cursor. Could not enter anything, not even Ctrl C to abort the sudo command.

I just clicked on the red dot in the upper left hand corner, and aborted the Terminal.

What shall I do next?

[Art Vandelay]

It doesn't do anything when you're typing a password for security. Just type your password and hit enter.

[besson3c]

Veltliner: what Vandelay said re: sudo password prompt, but I'm more concerned about whether Safari behaves better for you within the new account? The DNS cache flush is probably unnecessary, but just a precautionary measure.

Let us know how it went!

[tuqqer]

On the other hand, Safari 3 beta doesn't work on a couple of my bank sites, and Spell Catcher's autocomplete feature breaks, so for some things, Safari 2 is still the way to go.

Veltliner, to clear the Safari cache without the mysterious terminal, download the brilliant freeware Onyx over at Mac OS X Software Updates and Mac OS X Downloads - VersionTracker . It's got an option to clear Safari's cache, and a few other nice features.

[MacosNerd]

Safari is my main browser and I'm happy with it. Could it be better should but the same can be said for any software application.

[Art Vandelay]

Originally Posted by tuqqer 

Veltliner, to clear the Safari cache without the mysterious terminal, download the brilliant freeware Onyx over at Mac OS X Software Updates and Mac OS X Downloads - VersionTracker . It's got an option to clear Safari's cache, and a few other nice features.

Besson3c isn't talking about Safari's cache.

[Veltliner]

Besson3c,

I typed in sudo lookupd-flushcache

And got the reply sudo: lookupd-flushcache command not found

[Art Vandelay]

You're not typing the command correctly.

It's "sudo lookupd -flushcache"

[jbleisure]

Cannot get into my hotmail account. Starts switching around like crazy, and finally gets
1. to a page that displayed "windows live ID" not working (yesterday)
2. Safari cannot find server.

Me to on both Safari 2 and 3.

Reloading the page works for me on both

[nickw311]

I like Safari 3.0.3 better than 2 but it does crash on me occasionally.

[stwain2003]

Safari 2 has many problems with logging into webmail. Safari 3 is MUCH better about that.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Art Vandelay 

You're not typing the command correctly.

It's "sudo lookupd -flushcache"

Thanks! Will do it again with the quotes.

[adamfishercox]

No, no, no quotes. put a space before the -flushcache and no colon after sudo.

[Veltliner]

Thanks.

I did it on my second account.

It doesn't give you any feeback like it performed it. The fans were spinning a bit, which might have been because of the flushcache.

But Safari sped up totally in my main account. It's just plain snappy now. The speed increase is absolutely dramatic. MacNN page pops up in one second.

So it worked! Fantastico. Get to like the terminal.

What exactly happens when you flush the cache? It's, I understand, not the Safari cache, but the cache of all applications.

So, even though I barely brought any files over with me from my G5, some G5 leftovers might have migrated over somehow in some library files (possibly the safari files)? At least, that's my own theory.

Great, how it worked! What snappiness! Safari really had a major digestion problem.

[Veltliner]

Add-on: does the flushcache command affect all accounts, or only the account it was performed under?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Add-on: does the flushcache command affect all accounts, or only the account it was performed under?

All accounts, I believe.

Before I explain what the DNS cache flush does, do you know what DNS is? I ask because your answer will determine how I answer your question

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

All accounts, I believe.

Before I explain what the DNS cache flush does, do you know what DNS is? I ask because your answer will determine how I answer your question

It's another name for IP address, which is, I believe, the number version an internet address written up in words, and consisting of four numbers, separated by dots. It can somehow be used to track an internet user, as every computer seems to have his own dns...?

That's it as for now...

[CharlesS]

Nope, DNS means Domain Name System, and it's in charge of those little "www.something.com" type names that you can remember more easily than the IP addresses. When you enter a domain name in the Location field of your browser, it calls a DNS server and asks it to look up the IP address for that domain name. For example, if you typed the domain name "http://www.google.com/" in your browser, it would ask a DNS server what the IP address corresponding to that domain name is. The DNS server would respond with 64.233.167.104. Your browser would then connect to 64.233.167.104, where you'd see the Google search page.

[besson3c]

Thanks Charles! Well said...

Anyway, OS X keeps a cache of DNS resolutions (e.g. google.com => 64.233.167.104) to speed up requests in not querying the server every time. The command I gave you emptied this database/cache so that consequent requests would need to query the DNS server again as to recreate these respective entries.

When you were describing all of these extra hops that others weren't getting, this is why I thought you may have had some DNS cache corruption or outdated entries that were being called upon.

[Veltliner]

Thanks, CharlesS and besson3c.

As I brought the Safari cache from a G5 to an Intel Safari, that might have led to corruption - or it didn't work well because there might be differences in Safari on my old iMac G5 and my new Intel iMac (even though it's Universal Binary?).

[voodoo]

Is Safari 2 junk? Well.. let's put it like this: I prefer to use a beta version of Safari 3 than the final version of Safari 2, and I am far from being alone.

V

[besson3c]

The Safari cache has nothing to do with your DNS cache.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

The Safari cache has nothing to do with your DNS cache.

So it could not have been anything I brought over from the G5? "Just" data corruption?


PS:

I just had to use Firefox to access hotmail messages I needed with headers.

Not that Firefox is not good. But I really like Safari, and I'm glad Safari 3 works well. I even have the impression that Safari 3 is snappier than Firefox.

[Kevin]

I got that impression as well.

[Cold Warrior]

Safari 3 is better than Firefox, for me, on Flash media and embedded Quicktime. Just seems to play more smoothly, better quality (subjective, I know), and not drag down the browser.

[Kevin]

I tried to like Firefox. I really did. It just has that "unfitted" Linux like GUI feel to it.
not polished at all. Always felt it was in constant "WIP" mode. I didn't like the way it didn't feel like a Mac application either. Something just bugged me about it.

I did use Camino here for awhile before Safari came out.

I guess once i tried Safari I became hooked. It was the first browser to ever feel and respond like a Mac application I had ever used. Camino was darn close though. Very close. The non-bloated version on Netscape.. (can't remember the version..) was close too. All the IE browsers for the Mac just reminded me of ports. IE 5 was the only real usable browser for OS 9. And that isn't saying much.

I'd use Firefox if it was more like Safari.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

I guess once i tried Safari I became hooked. It was the first browser to ever feel and respond like a Mac application I had ever used.

I had the same experience.

Safari is intuitive, and has the best design of all browsers.

I'm glad Safari 3 beta works so well.

[besson3c]

I guess I just don't understand how a web browser can be intuitive. There is bookmark management, but my bookmark collections are so unkept and sloppy that I don't really care, and there are browser preferences, which I so rarely change.

The vast majority of my casual browsing (when I'm not developing something) involves simply using the address bar, Google bar, back button, page refresh, history, page source, management of tabs, and not a hell of a lot more, which is really not very different than Safari in its behavior.

[adamfishercox]

You're not an inexperienced user. Intuitivity (is that a word) doesn't really matter as much to powerusers. Imagine someone new to computers. Would you show them Firefox first to teach them the web? Or Safari?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by adamfishercox 

You're not an inexperienced user. Intuitivity (is that a word) doesn't really matter as much to powerusers. Imagine someone new to computers. Would you show them Firefox first to teach them the web? Or Safari?

I don't think it would matter. The core functionality and usage of the two browsers is identical. I'd be teaching how to use a generic browser which would apply to operating both. Similarly, there is enough in common in different cars that if you teach them how to drive one, they can drive others like it (disregarding the stick shift/automatic shift factor which kind of destroys my analogy

I think the word you are looking for is "intuition"

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I guess I just don't understand how a web browser can be intuitive. There is bookmark management, but my bookmark collections are so unkept and sloppy that I don't really care, and there are browser preferences, which I so rarely change.

The vast majority of my casual browsing (when I'm not developing something) involves simply using the address bar, Google bar, back button, page refresh, history, page source, management of tabs, and not a hell of a lot more, which is really not very different than Safari in its behavior.

I am not sure you'll ever get it besson. Some people don't. And that is why OSs like Linux don't bother them. Not that there is anything WRONG with you. You just aren't interested in those aspects in the computer world.

Those of use that can feel and see the difference will probably always be this way.

You could say what you said above, about cars. They basically all do the same thing. But I'd rather sit in a BMW during a long trip than I would a Honda Civic. And it has nothing to do with status.

If there was a better browser out there for me than Safari, I'd use it.

Now there are apps say like iChat that I think are real slick and work great. But don't function like say Adium (I need to be able to connect to multiple networks... IChat doesn't do this well)

I'd love to have Adium's ability to log into multiple servers, with iChat's slick and very usable GUI.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I guess I just don't understand how a web browser can be intuitive.

Suggested reading for you:

http://blog.mozilla.com/faaborg/2007...m-integration/

[Kevin]

I wouldn't give firefox as an example of a mac like application. It feels more like an open source one.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

Suggested reading for you:

Alex Faaborg - » The Firefox 3 Visual Refresh: System Integration

Excellent read, thank you!

I understand fully what the author is getting at, and I agree with his goals. I've personally never really found Firefox a jarring switch compared to a variety of other third party Mac apps, but in thinking about this some more thinking in particular about users brand new to the Mac, I suppose that an identity that is consistent/identical with the rest of OS X would be a good thing. Even though many other apps do not have consistent/identical user experiences, the author makes a good point that Firefox may be the only third party app that some users install.

If the new Unified theme and a consistent set of widgets will be prevalent throughout the OS rather than there being a hodgepodge of widgets, skins, and conventions, I suppose there is all the more reason to do what they plan to do with FF 3.

For those that don't wish to read the article, here are some FF 3 mockup screenshots:

[Kevin]

Just horrible



Not everyone has a eye for design or consistency. Just like not everyone can code.

That "Folder of Bookmarks" However they have that working... blah. Very tasteless. Safari's highlighting of bookmarks is a lot better

Again, this reminds me of a polished Java application.

This is how Apple does highlights. Not overly beveled, no shadow, no lens flare...



Simple elegance. So is the inspector

[TETENAL]

Who designed a better highlight is not the point why I linked to the article. The point is that in this article a Firefox developer stresses how important system integration is for them – and how they failed with it so far. Something besson3c so far always claimed is not important.