[ph0ust]

hi all. i am converting some of my dvd collection (those not heavy on audio effects, etc.) to digital so that they can be watched in various rooms of the house via my atvs. it seems that handbrake has about a million settings and i am a quality whore- i want the best quality picture and sound. the "apple tv" setting is not bad, nor is the "normal" or "film" (seems the de-interlacing is jacked up during scenes with heavy motion to them), but they all seem to ignore most of the options except for "beldum", which uses every feature maxed out but makes a mkv file that is hardly usable unless you hack your atv with perian (i actually still can't get these files to play on my imac with perian).

anyway, i was hoping that perhaps we could have a thread on what peoples settings are to max out the quality of their films. are you all just using standard options in handbrake (if so, which ones?) or are you setting up a custom encoding profile?

i am hoping some of you experts out there will be detailed in how you maximize the quality to watch these on high-quality home theater equipment (i.e. big flat screen tv, great receiver and speakers). thanks!

[mduell]

If you want to play with your Apple TV, then the Apple TV profile is the best one to use. It implements the best quality (bitrate and options) that the Apple TV can offer. Apple TV doesn't support all those options that Beldum includes, so those options are not included in the Apple TV profile.

If you want better quality, look for a set top box that can play raw DVD rips (VIDEO_TS folders or concatenated VOBs); I think Popcorn and some of the others just announced in the last few months can do this.

[ph0ust]

it seems that the atv setting does not use all the available options for quality though. such as:

>i assume in using the atv profile you enable the de-interlacing? if not, why not?
> the atv profile does not incorporate ac3 by default so i imagine you are changing that?

are you updating the atv profile with any other options like 2-pass encoding? if so, what other updates are you making to the profile?

[mduell]

The need for deinterlacing depends on your source. Turn it on at the appropriate level if your source needs it.

Apple TV doesn't support AC3. If you want passthrough to an external Dolby decoder, then choose the AC3+AAC option for audio.

2-pass encoding doesn't help with the Apple TV profile.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mduell 

2-pass encoding doesn't help with the Apple TV profile.

Why not? Just wondering.

I am starting to do some encoding for the Xbox 360 and iPhone. I'm overjoyed that the iPhone has so much more power than the video iPod, because the 1.5 Mbps H.264 video for the latter simply wasn't good enough on a TV. However, the 2.5 Mbps 720x400+ video that the iPhone supports is actually watchable on a TV.

I note that the Handbrake devs tell us not to use 2-pass for Apple devices, not because it doesn't work, but because it doesn't control bitrate spikes. This does suggest to me that 2-pass does indeed do stuff even with Apple device presets (although the results may be worse in the end, because of potential stuttering if the bitrate spikes). Or is the Apple TV different enough so that the 2-pass option doesn't do anything at all? Or are you just suggesting that what it does isn't as useful?

[mduell]

It's not worth the time; at the high bitrate the Apple TV profile uses, you don't need the second pass to ensure you get a decent output. Even if you do pull out another couple tenths in PSNR, I don't think you'll be able to notice it.

For whatever reason, the Apple marketing department completely sandbags the video playback capabilities of the iPod Touch/iPhone.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by mduell 

It's not worth the time; at the high bitrate the Apple TV profile uses, you don't need the second pass to ensure you get a decent output. Even if you do pull out another couple tenths in PSNR, I don't think you'll be able to notice it.

Thanks. I've also since done a few test encodes and it does seem that 2-pass isn't a huge benefit here, esp. considering it takes twice as long.

For whatever reason, the Apple marketing department completely sandbags the video playback capabilities of the iPod Touch/iPhone.

Well, they do indicate in the specs that the iPhone supports 2.5 Mbps H.264 Baseline.

Video formats supported: H.264 video, up to 1.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Low-Complexity version of the H.264 Baseline Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; H.264 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Baseline Profile up to Level 3.0 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats

I think they include two specifications for H.264 just because the lesser one is what they used to specify for the 5G iPod and they just want to make sure everyone understands the older stuff remains compatible with the iPhone.

Also, 640x480 = 720x427.

While it's true some have shown that 720x480 also works, I suspect that there are some outlier cases where 720x480 may be problematic.

[mduell]

The iPhone tech specs don't make any sense; 2.5Mbps for baseline profile but only 1.5Mbps for low complexity baseline profile? It looks like a poor copy/paste job from the iPod video specs.

Someone (rhester, I think) maintains a thread in the handbrake forums about the real capabilities of the iPhone/iPod touch; it's something like 5000kbps average / 10000kbps peak with some options.

[Eug]

I'm still impressed that the iPhone does so well with this stuff, which such high bitrates.

I discovered the hard way that the Xbox 360 may choke with QT H.264 over 10 Mbps, which is strange since it handles HD DVD H.264 well over 20 Mbps just fine. I guess MS didn't want to support QT too well, since they would obviously prefer to promote WMV instead.

[mduell]

What is "QT H.264"? I assume you mean H.264 outputted from QuickTime, but what profile and options does that imply?

HD DVD uses a predictable profile and (rather simple, IIRC) set of options for H.264 or VC-1 content, so the Xbox developers can optimize for that combination.

[Eug]

I just meant QT H.264 HD trailers from Apple. The Xbox 360 has occasional stutters with 12 Mbps (avg) video.

At first I thought it was a limitation of my powerline network. Then I discovered that the same video streams perfectly to my MacBook over the same network connection. So it's a limitation of the Xbox 360 itself. The spots where it chokes are reproducible, and I assume those are spots of bitrate peaks.

[MikeD]

Just out of curiosity, will the iPhone play files encoded by handbrake using the Apple TV profile? I think default is 2500 kbps using h.264

Mike

[bearcatrp]

Nope. You have to use the iPhone/Touch setting. I tried it for my touch but no luck. Have to burn the movie a 2nd time with the different settings.

[tooki]

The crazy thing is, I've read stories of people running 5-6Mb/sec (!!!) files on the video nanos and 6G ("classic"). Apple's very conservative on the supported video specs.

As for the original question: for everyone who uses an iPod newer than the 5G iPod, you can use advanced settings to give you optimum files.

I now encode from DVD using this exact process, which requires HandBrake 0.9.2 or later. You must not skip any step, even if it looks like it's OK.

After launching HandBrake:
1. Select DVD source
2. Select "iPod Hi Rez" preset
3. Select "AVC/H.264 Video / AAC + AC3 Audio" for movies with multichannel surround, "AVC/H.264 Video / AAC Audio" for movies in stereo. This provides the Dolby Digital AC-3 surround track for your Apple TV, and the AAC stereo track for your Mac and iPod.
4. Select "two pass encode" and "turbo first pass".
5. Click "Picture Settings..." button
5.1. Pick Anamorphic: "Strict" and wait a second
5.2. Pick Anamorphic: "Loose" and press Close. This creates an ideal anamorphic video file that gives you optimum quality with smallest storage requirements, while making the file ideal for both widescreen (like AppleTV and your Mac) and 4:3 displays like an iPod or old TV.
6. Set "Audio & Subtitles" settings if needed.
7. Begin the encode or add it to the queue


If you're doing multiple encodes in a queue, HandBrake will remember all the settings until you quit, but be sure to redo steps 1, 5 and 6 for every single movie, as they're custom to each movie.

This produces a 1.4GB file for a 2 hour movie, which looks great on TV and yet works on almost all iPods, while simultaneously offering the optimal soundtrack format for each. If you wanted to, you could increase the bitrate, but I don't think you gain much.

Also be sure to occasionally update HandBrake's preset list, especially if you used older versions in the past.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by tooki 

3. Select "AVC/H.264 Video / AAC + AC3 Audio" for movies with multichannel surround, "AVC/H.264 Video / AAC Audio" for movies in stereo. This provides the Dolby Digital AC-3 surround track for your Apple TV, and the AAC stereo track for your Mac and iPod.

Note Apple TV can't actually decode AC3, so this is only useful if you're passing the audio through to a receiver that can.

Originally Posted by tooki 

4. Select "two pass encode" and "turbo first pass".

Very little value for 1500kbps video, especially since you're doing turbo first pass.

Originally Posted by tooki 

5. Click "Picture Settings..." button
5.1. Pick Anamorphic: "Strict" and wait a second
5.2. Pick Anamorphic: "Loose" and press Close. This creates an ideal anamorphic video file that gives you optimum quality with smallest storage requirements, while making the file ideal for both widescreen (like AppleTV and your Mac) and 4:3 displays like an iPod or old TV.

Unnecessary; Handbrake is smarter than you think and embeds the PAR in the iPod atom (which all Apple products use) rather than the video stream.

MikeD: Stick with the default iPod Hi Rez preset until you know what you're doing.

[MikeD]

Originally Posted by mduell 

MikeD: Stick with the default iPod Hi Rez preset until you know what you're doing.

Would you say that the iPod HiRez is good enough too for TV and computer viewing? Should I bump up the bitrate or is that not necessary?

I have my AppleTV HDMI going into my receiver so the 5.1 is nice! I'm guessing I could just manually go AAC+AC3.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by MikeD 

Would you say that the iPod HiRez is good enough too for TV and computer viewing? Should I bump up the bitrate or is that not necessary?

Depends on the content, the quality of the source, and how good you want it to look; for some it's fine, for others it's not. If you increase the bitrate it may not work on all iPods.

Originally Posted by MikeD 

I have my AppleTV HDMI going into my receiver so the 5.1 is nice! I'm guessing I could just manually go AAC+AC3.

Cool. Or create a new preset from the iPod Hi Rez preset with the AAC+AC3 change.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by mduell 

Note Apple TV can't actually decode AC3, so this is only useful if you're passing the audio through to a receiver that can.

Isn't that the point? Either way, you're producing a single, forward-looking file, perfect for all uses, rather than specialized for one.

Originally Posted by mduell 

Very little value for 1500kbps video, especially since you're doing turbo first pass.

I disagree. The difference between single-pass and two-pass video at that bitrate is noticeable.

Originally Posted by mduell 

Unnecessary; Handbrake is smarter than you think and embeds the PAR in the iPod atom (which all Apple products use) rather than the video stream.

Uhhh no. It's not about the PAR, it's that if you don't set it to anamorphic, you get rescaled video. It is NOT anamorphic if you allow it to rescale, which means you've either lost video data, or added unnecessary data, depending on whether you rescale up or down (the iPod setting always scales DOWN). You MUST follow that step if you want an actual anamorphic h264 file. And given the advantages of preserving the original anamorphic format, you'd be a fool to NOT use it.


MikeD, just follow what I said -- my instructions work very well, and give you a great balance between file size, quality, and flexibility.