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Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 06:17 PM

I'm trying to wipe all trace of Mac Mail from a system, but everytime I try to, sure enough it "imports" all the old server data.

Where is this information stored on the hard drive so I can eradicate it and start fresh?

Oh, and maybe someone might have some insight into the overall problem: Mail can't use a Road Runner smtp server. It's able to access a .Mac smtp server and Correo is able to access the smtp server from the same machine, but not Mail?!?

We want Mail to be the client on this machine, but we've kinda got to have the ability to send messages. (Applecare has thus far been clueless.)

Cold Warrior · Jun 12, 2008, 06:27 PM

Is your ISP Road Runner?

Also, what smtp server are you using? I found a couple different listed:
smtp-server.roadrunner.com
smtp-server.sc.rr.com

Also, this thread on Apple's site has one person who got it working:
Apple - Support - Discussions - Road Runner email account on IPhone ...

Originally Posted by one post

In the outgoing mail section, use your smtp server name followed by :587 and in the user name field have yourusername@xx.rr.com

Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 06:38 PM

This is a MacBook, but I'll try those variations.

besson3c · Jun 12, 2008, 06:40 PM

The :587 is a way to force sending on port 587 (rather than the default 25), the SMTP submission port. You can test to see whether traffic to this port is being blocked, or there is nothing listening on this port by doing a:

telnet smtpserver 587

This port is used by some email providers to separate traffic coming from other SMTP servers with traffic coming from email client connections, but Roadrunner may or may not offer connectivity on this port. Additionally, many ISPs block outgoing traffic on the default SMTP port 25 for servers other than the one they have provided to you, so connectivity on port 587 is a way to circumvent this.

I'm a little confused as to why they are suggesting enter the server name with the :587. There should be a second field for entering an alternate port. Just enter "587" into this field and leave off the ":587" in typing in the smtp server name.

besson3c · Jun 12, 2008, 06:41 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

This is a MacBook, but I'll try those variations.

The hardware being used here is irrelevant, just so you know...

Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 06:49 PM

Well, really?

It is Mac Mail that is the problem, so I'm assuming that the code running on the iPhone and the code running on the MacBook have significant differences. No?

It's confounding me, and now somehow I've screwed up the POP settings too. Geesh.

besson3c · Jun 12, 2008, 07:15 PM

Helmling: it's a client issue. I would suggest the following:

1) The network connectivity test I gave you for making sure that you can connect on port 587 to your server
2) Setting this up in Mail if you haven't already done so, and if you are having problems:
3) Try it out on another client, and if it works there, try it out under OS X Mail within another OS X account. If it doesn't, let us know if you are getting an error message of some sort.

Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 07:20 PM

Somebody who knows how this stupid program works please tell me WHERE IS IT IMPORTING DATA FROM.

I wipe out everything under mail in the library, delete the keychain, and still when I fresh install Mail, it "imports" all the settings.

Art Vandelay · Jun 12, 2008, 07:38 PM

~/Library/Mail
~/Library/Mail Downloads
~/Library/Preferences/com.apple.mail.plist

You'd get a lot further if you'd listen to the good advice that's already been given to you.

Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 08:15 PM

Well, Art, thanks for getting snotty. I don't know why you'd assume I hadn't.

Anyway, what actually solved the problem strikes me as terribly odd. I had to turn off all the security. No authentication, so SSL, etc. Then it worked. Go figure.

This sort of nonsense is why I use .Mac for my mail even though I'm also a RoadRunner subscriber.

Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Helmling: it's a client issue. I would suggest the following:

1) The network connectivity test I gave you for making sure that you can connect on port 587 to your server
2) Setting this up in Mail if you haven't already done so, and if you are having problems:
3) Try it out on another client, and if it works there, try it out under OS X Mail within another OS X account. If it doesn't, let us know if you are getting an error message of some sort.

Yeah, you're right, it was the client. I had ruled it out because I assumed that if Road Runner techs had actually had their hands on this machine for half an hour that they would have at least made sure the settings were correct. Unbelievably, though, they didn't catch that their own server rejects authentication. Mac Mail was also not terribly helpful. It took Thunderbird to give me an error message with some sort of useful information in it.

Geez. This person owes me a big thank you. Two hours I spent fussing with this machine.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

Cold Warrior · Jun 12, 2008, 08:18 PM

I found that in their documentation in my first google search and didn't bother posting it because I assumed you'd followed those steps early on.

No matter. Glad it's working now.

Helmling · Jun 12, 2008, 08:22 PM

Originally Posted by Cold Warrior

I found that in their documentation in my first google search and didn't bother posting it because I assumed you'd followed those steps early on.

No matter. Glad it's working now.

Yeah, I should have. I'll never underestimate their techies' ineptitude again. What I also can't figure out is how the settings got messed up in the first place, as her e-mail used to work just fine. She is monumentally cyberphobic and I can't imagine she would have voluntarily clicked on anything in the mail settings, but you never know...

Art Vandelay · Jun 12, 2008, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

Well, Art, thanks for getting snotty. I don't know why you'd assume I hadn't.

You never acknowledged the advice you were given and kept asking how to reset. If you had said you tried it and still wanted to reset, then it would have been much clearer. Glad you got it working.

besson3c · Jun 12, 2008, 09:55 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

Well, Art, thanks for getting snotty. I don't know why you'd assume I hadn't.

Anyway, what actually solved the problem strikes me as terribly odd. I had to turn off all the security. No authentication, so SSL, etc. Then it worked. Go figure.

This sort of nonsense is why I use .Mac for my mail even though I'm also a RoadRunner subscriber.

.Mac provides plain old vanilla IMAP service, there is really nothing special about it, aside from the OS X Mail configuration being preset for you within this client. All of the same restrictions provided to you by your ISP (if any) apply.

besson3c · Jun 12, 2008, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Helmling

Yeah, you're right, it was the client. I had ruled it out because I assumed that if Road Runner techs had actually had their hands on this machine for half an hour that they would have at least made sure the settings were correct. Unbelievably, though, they didn't catch that their own server rejects authentication. Mac Mail was also not terribly helpful. It took Thunderbird to give me an error message with some sort of useful information in it.

Geez. This person owes me a big thank you. Two hours I spent fussing with this machine.

Anyway, thanks for the help.

No problem, I'm happy that it is working for you now