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l008com · Oct 27, 2008, 05:48 PM

I've got this small video production office. They have a bunch of towers they use Final Cut Pro on. They have a media problem that has to sides.

One side is hardware. Each machine is full of drives, then has countless esata and firewire drives dangling off of them. Then when it comes to sharing media, you have to figure out which means each drive is plugged into, after you figure out which drive contains the media you need.

This problem is easy to fix. I'm thinking either that Xraid replacement apple is pushing (probably not though $$$) OR a single Mac Pro to be set up as a server only and not a workstation. Load it as needed with eSata PCI cards, and add as needed, 5 Bay eSata drive towers. With a setup like this, a mac pro could easily handle more GBs than my brain can comprehend. But, is gigabit ethernet fast enough to use in this way? If this media server and all the workstations are connected via gigabit, will they all be able to work with media on the server at acceptable speeds?

The other side of this problem is software. Apparently regular file sharing isn't cutting it anymore. Is there some kind of media server software available? The buzzword 'asset management' comes to mind. I personally have never used final cut, but I guess one of the issues is that with regular filesharing, only one person can access a file at once. Is there some kind of software (hopefully already part of FCP?) that lets you manage your files in one source, where two people, on two macs, could work on two projects at the same time, if they both shared some files between them?

OreoCookie · Oct 27, 2008, 06:26 PM

Have you had a look at Final Cut Server? It sounds like it could solve the software-side of your problem. Have a look at the tutorials

Regarding the hardware side, I think you should have a look at a professional hardware RAID.

l008com · Oct 27, 2008, 06:39 PM

I actually came across final cut server after posting, and I think you are right it is probably what is needed. Regarding the hardware, I agree that rack would be nice, but we're looking at something like 3x the cost for a system based on that, vs a Mac Pro/eSata based system. Plus you could grow the eSata based system in smaller (cheaper) chunks, vs buying a whole $12,000 rack right now, whether you need it or not, and if you do fill it, buying a whole other one.

One thing I'm not clear on, does a system like the Promise one need to be connected to a host computer? Or does it function directly on the network all on it's own? I'd still need a server to run Final Cut Server on though right?

mduell · Oct 27, 2008, 07:29 PM

The Promise unit is DAS, not NAS, so it needs to be connected to another machine.

I'd go with a refurb (or existing, if you have an older one) Mac Pro plus one of the Promise units and FCS. You could go with a bunch of eSATA units, but in a professional environment I think it's worth one Promise units instead of 3+ enclosures.

Plus with the whole stack from or endorsed/resold by Apple, there's only one company to point the finger at when it breaks (although they'll probably point it around internally).

l008com · Oct 27, 2008, 07:45 PM

So what is the advantage to the Promise unit over a few 5-stacks? Besides only dealing with one company (although its really not one, its apple and promise). Putting the racks on a neat shelving system will make them as organized looking as any rackmount system. I think rackmounts are very cool but I just don't see what this super expensive system is going to give these people, that a much cheaper esata based system will not?

l008com · Oct 27, 2008, 07:47 PM

Also, the promise units don't seem to come empty... it appears you have to buy it half full or all full of 750 gb drives? Compare that to 5-stacks that you can buy empty and fill up one drive at a time.

mduell · Oct 27, 2008, 10:52 PM

Originally Posted by l008com

So what is the advantage to the Promise unit over a few 5-stacks? Besides only dealing with one company (although its really not one, its apple and promise). Putting the racks on a neat shelving system will make them as organized looking as any rackmount system. I think rackmounts are very cool but I just don't see what this super expensive system is going to give these people, that a much cheaper esata based system will not?

Originally Posted by l008com

Also, the promise units don't seem to come empty... it appears you have to buy it half full or all full of 750 gb drives? Compare that to 5-stacks that you can buy empty and fill up one drive at a time.

Reliablility with redundant power supplies and data channels. They also don't support non-destructive expansion.
You can buy an empty Promise from other retailers and start filling it with cheap 1.5TB drives.

The 5 stacks are fine for my media collection at home; even fine for a single editor who is currently using single external FW drives and can't afford anything better. But in a professional networked environment, what's the cost of downtime? $$$$/hr?

l008com · Oct 27, 2008, 10:59 PM

And what is the best way to connect a Promise to a Mac Pro?

OreoCookie · Oct 28, 2008, 06:11 AM

Originally Posted by l008com

So what is the advantage to the Promise unit over a few 5-stacks? Besides only dealing with one company (although its really not one, its apple and promise). Putting the racks on a neat shelving system will make them as organized looking as any rackmount system. I think rackmounts are very cool but I just don't see what this super expensive system is going to give these people, that a much cheaper esata based system will not?

I second mduell's comments.
You will have hardware RAID capabilities that can deliver potentially much higher speeds (e. g. a hardware RAID60) at much higher fault tolerance. The cheap 5-bay towers will only give you `less single drives' on your desks, but they will not reduce clutter in terms of volume. The 5+-bay towers that do have hardware RAID (e. g. WiebeTech's RTX-600 or RTX-800) also cost easily $2.5k+ without drives.

From your description, you need a professional solution and that's simply a professional RAID system.

mduell · Oct 28, 2008, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by l008com

And what is the best way to connect a Promise to a Mac Pro?

FC or SAS; I'd lean toward FC since Apple sells a FC card.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

I second mduell's comments.
You will have hardware RAID capabilities that can deliver potentially much higher speeds (e. g. a hardware RAID60) at much higher fault tolerance. The cheap 5-bay towers will only give you `less single drives' on your desks, but they will not reduce clutter in terms of volume. The 5+-bay towers that do have hardware RAID (e. g. WiebeTech's RTX-600 or RTX-800) also cost easily $2.5k+ without drives.

The (good, $200) 5 bay towers do hardware RAID 0/1 (faster and more cost effective than the weibetech units in most situations) but once you're talking about more than two of them it definitely makes sense to move up to something more real.