[silentfeet]

Hello mindwaves,
What application do I use if I need to...?


Hello,
I am searching for software that will:

1) rip DRM protected DVDs (which I own)
2) convert MP4 to AVI files
3) convert vidie TS_folders to AVI files

In short, I'm having a difficult time finding apps that will do this. I have tried Toast 10 - won't let me convert my MP4s to avi - says I have to use iTunes to burn.
Tried Wondershare - quits every time upon launching app
Tried iSkysoft- will not play Quicktime.movie even after converting from DVD ripper
I have tried a host of others - result same.
I am using a Macbook Pro,2.4 gHz with 4 gigs of ram, OSX 10.5.8,
I have latest version of Toast 10 and Popcorn, and to rip I have used Mactheripper to rip DVDs successfully.

I would appreciate any helpful input or advice

[Cold Warrior]

handbrake

[mduell]

1) Handbrake + VLC
2) Handbrake
3) Handbrake

[silentfeet]

Hello Cold Warrior and mduell,
Thanks for your help. I will try Handbrake and you both advised. I currently have VLC.

Thanks again

[tooki]

But why do you want to convert to AVI? AVI sucks.

[Cold Warrior]

Agreed. The encodings I've done with handbrake and MP4 look great, far above avi.

[reader50]

AVI - like MOV and MKV - are format containers. The video quality depends on the codec & bitrate used, rather than the container.

This is only a reference note - opinions on the containers probably refer to codecs & settings commonly used with those containers in the past.

[ghporter]

How would one find out what codec was used in some arbitrary AVI container's video content? And given that there seems to be some small subset of codecs widely used with each container, how would one go about figuring out the best way to go from an AVI source file to something more useful, such as a VOB to burn onto a DVD?

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

How would one find out what codec was used in some arbitrary AVI container's video content?

Open it in VLC and hit apple-i

And given that there seems to be some small subset of codecs widely used with each container, how would one go about figuring out the best way to go from an AVI source file to something more useful, such as a VOB to burn onto a DVD?

Install Perian for QT compatibility and then drag it into iDVD or Toast. It might work better if you save it as a mov file first (divx doctor is a good way to do that for free if you don't have QT Pro, and there are many others).

[reader50]

Originally Posted by ghporter 

How would one find out what codec was used in some arbitrary AVI container's video content?

You can use VLC's Get Info as Uncle Skeleton suggests. Assuming VLC can open that file, and runs on your system. Or use Movist's control panel to show that info.

For a more general answer:

MediaInfo
MediaInfo Mac 10.5, 10.6
MediaInfo Mac 10.4 (direct download 4.5 MB)

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Uncle Skeleton 

Open it in VLC and hit apple-i


Install Perian for QT compatibility and then drag it into iDVD or Toast. It might work better if you save it as a mov file first (divx doctor is a good way to do that for free if you don't have QT Pro, and there are many others).

Originally Posted by reader50 

You can use VLC's Get Info as Uncle Skeleton suggests. Assuming VLC can open that file, and runs on your system. Or use Movist's control panel to show that info.

For a more general answer:

MediaInfo
MediaInfo Mac 10.5, 10.6
MediaInfo Mac 10.4 (direct download 4.5 MB)

Very helpful, thank you both. I have a collection of old movie trailers, many of which are in AVI files, that I'd like to watch on something other than my computer's screen. I did not realize that iDVD was so "drag and drop" flexible. And Mediainfo looks VERY helpful as well.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by reader50 

AVI - like MOV and MKV - are format containers.

I realize that it's a container format, but I remember reading that AVI has some deficiencies compared to MOV (MP4 is also a container, essentially identical to .mov).

I guess I don't see what one gains from using AVI when MP4 and MOV are available.

[mduell]

Compatibility with degenerate devices.

[Uncle Skeleton]

It has deficiencies in being a container, not in the codecs it can contain. But those deficiencies pretty much all affect developers, not users. Once the developers have knuckled under and made work-arounds for the deficiencies, the user experience is comparable (mov and mp4 have more compressed headers, so if you open an avi and save it un-altered as a mov, it's a tad bit smaller; that's the only one I can think of).

[silentfeet]

Hello all,

I am glad to see that my questions about file conversion sparked such an interesting feedback from so many people. However, you guy are way over my head. I am a simpleton about all of this techno speak. In response to tookie's question: But why do you want to convert to AVI? AVI sucks. , the answer is simple - space. I know from viewing that AVI does not have the quality of MP4 files; however, it's been my experience that MP4 files are larger. Hence, the reason to convert to AVI. If I should need to convert the AVI file back to MP4 so that it will play on either my iPod, or iPhone, then I will use Handbrake as recommended. I would be happy to educate myself so that I know what all of you are talking about if someone could suggest a reading that is directed to a novice level.
Thanks again for everyone's response.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by silentfeet 

However, you guy are way over my head. ... I would be happy to educate myself so that I know what all of you are talking about if someone could suggest a reading that is directed to a novice level.

I'm not sure if we can help. How a video container file works is a naturally technical subject. I'll try though.

A container file is one that holds several media types together. ie - if you want to watch a movie, you probably want the video stream AND the audio. Unless you are into silent movies.

So you need a container that will hold both, and keep them synced. If you didn't use a container for that, you'd have two files for the movie. You'd have to open the video file for playback, and try to start the audio file in iTunes at the exact same moment. So the sound will match up with the pictures.

In practice, a container file may have a lot more than that wrapped into a single file.
• The video stream.
• Audio in English
• Audio in Klingon
• Director's commentary track (in English)
• Subtitles track (English)
• Subtitles track (Klingon)

The user doesn't have to mess with 6 files. They just double-click on the one container file. The user can select one of the other audio tracks from within the player. Ditto for the subtitles track.

AVI is an older container format - it didn't plan far enough ahead, and cannot accomodate most of the modern video compression schemes (codecs). The later compression schemes do a better job - you need them for high definition video. You could use older compression schemes, but for an HD movie, the file size would come out huge. AVI works fine for smaller video - ie, low definition stuff from years past. Or a movie from DVD.

MOV (Quicktime) is actually a year older than AVI, but Apple did a really good job of planning ahead. The format has held up well. Not quite as advanced as recent container formats, but still serviceable. Due to an extra level of data abstraction internally, MOV files are well suited for use in editing.

MP4 - this is a clone of the MOV format from a few years ago. A standards body adopted it, and didn't want to adopt MOV directly because Apple might keep evolving it (they have). A standard that stays put is a lot easier to use when designing (for example) DVD players.

MKV (Matroska) - one of the most recent container formats, very modern. Heavily used for high definition content, in part because it's all built on open source.

Comparison of container formats on Wikipedia - warning, technical.

[Uncle Skeleton]

Originally Posted by silentfeet 

the answer is simple - space. I know from viewing that AVI does not have the quality of MP4 files; however, it's been my experience that MP4 files are larger.

You've noticed a correlation, but you've drawn an inaccurate conclusion. The file size is determined by the "codec", not the "container" ("codec" stands for COmpressor/DECompressor). In this case, avi and mp4 use very similar codecs, but you might notice that mp4s are larger with higher quality because people with more interest in video quality over compression prefer to use the more standards-compliant mp4. Whereas people who prefer small file sizes while sacrificing video quality tend to be set-in-their-ways, still using the older inferior container format (avi) and also still using older inferior hardware that either has small hard drives, or was purchased before the mp4 standard caught on.

Anyway, as a user, all you have to do is reduce the quality on your video to match the avi's you're familiar with, and the file size will match too.

[mduell]

Originally Posted by silentfeet 

But why do you want to convert to AVI? AVI sucks. , the answer is simple - space. I know from viewing that AVI does not have the quality of MP4 files; however, it's been my experience that MP4 files are larger.

Within reasonable limits, there's no relationship between the container and the filesize. You could use the same bitrates with your files in MP4 containers and get the same filesize as with an AVI container.

[silentfeet]

Hello reader50, Uncle Skeleton, and mduell,
Thanks for all of your input. I do not pretend to understand the whole enchilada of file compression, but I have learned quite a bit from all of your input. I am using one year + new equipment so I suppose I should not be overly concerned about file size regarding AVI files vs MP4 files. I have not seen or used MKV files so I have no experience with those. Did not know CODEC determines file size- not the container. Thanks Uncle Skeleton and mduell. Thanks reader50 for the detailed explanation regarding what a container actually does and the different ones, i.e. AVI, MOV, MP4, and MKV. I appreciate everyone's time in replying to this thread and for making an effort to educate the ignorant-me.

Thanks Again All,

silentfeet