[huskyfan]

I have a canon HF-10 HD camcorder which records in AVHCD H.264 in the mts format. I usually record in the highest quality HD mode (FXH). My goal is to preserve as much video quality as possible during import and export from IMovie 08. I have found that there is isgnificant los of video quality after I edit and then export from IMovie. There seems to b an infinite amount of different settings.

What are the best settings for import and export?

I do not have Final cut nor do I plan on purchasing it.

Thanks.

[mduell]

For best quality, choose Full (1920x1080) instead of High (960x540) when importing into iMovie. The file size is insane (~40GB/hr), but it preserves as much quality as possible.

Even if you were doing High, most of the quality loss is probably coming in the export. Are you choosing the HD output? If that's not good enough, Export using Quicktime and crank up the bitrate.

[huskyfan]

Thanks mduell.

Iam confused by the multitude of options for exporting. When I chose "export using Quicktime" under the "share: tab I am prompted to the "save exported file as..."
At the bottom of that window there is an option to export as QT or list of other formats. Someone told me that DV stream is good? Assuming you pick QT there is an option button that opens up another window called "movie settings". Most of the key options at this point seem to under the "settings" tab where you have the option of choosing:

1) Compression type, the default is H.264 but AIC, numerous types of DV and MPEG-4 are other options (to name a few)
2) Frame rate (fps), default is current
3) Key frames, default is every 24
4) Data rate (is this where you "crank up the bit rate"?) default is"automatic"
5) Compressor. I have it set to best quality multi pass

In the " movie settings" window there is also a "size" tab that opens up a long list of sizes and formats including HD, NTSC and PAL and numerous sizes maxing out at 1920x1080.

My question is what combination gives the best export quality. I realize that this may be a difficult question. In general there seems to be huge differences in export times based on the settings that you choose, but I cant really notice a difference. In fact it seems like the larger, HD export settings are longer to export and have poorer resolution which seems odd. Perhaps I am doing something wrong?

[mduell]

Yea, the quality of DV stream should be great, but the filesizes are insane. It's like driving a 50 passenger bus around town "so you have room for the kids."

Are you happy with the playback quality in iMovie? If not, we're solving the wrong problem.

Try 1) H.264 2) Default 3) Default 4) 8 Mbps (8000 kbps) 5) Best quality multi pass. If that's not good enough, we're headed for crazy.

What's your intended playback device?

FWIW I've never been happy with the quality of Apple's consumer compression products. One option is to export from Quicktime using some ridiculous option (DV at 50Mbps, H.264 at 20+Mbps, etc) and then do final compression with something using x264 based (like Handbrake). I do this with my HF100; I shoot at FXH (~16Mbps) and then encode down to about 2Mbps for 1280x720 output.

[huskyfan]

Iam OK with Imovie playback quality, in my mind this is not even an issue.

My goal is to export to a format that I can save on an external HD and then have the ability to play on a variety of devices (PC, Mac), i.e a format that is fairly universal. My parents do not have a mac and I would like to send them files to view. I would prefer to not have to use more "complex" programs like Handbrake as I dont really understand them and my parent's definitely dont. And again I would like to preserve as much quality as possible.

I will try the settings you suggested. Do you tincker with the "size" settings in the "Movie settings" window. Not sure what the difference between HD, NTSC and PAL is...do you? Is there even a difference?

When you say you do final compression with HB what exactly are you doing. Do you export a file from iMovie and then reopen with HB and alter it again? If so, can this actually restore some quality? I do have HB on my mac, just have not used it much.

I appreciate all of your help!

[mduell]

Yes, the size setting is very important. Use HD.

Your parents wouldn't need to use Handbrake, the video would play in Windows Media Player or Quicktime or whatever.

You can never restore quality to a video, you can only avoid losing much. The suggestion is to export from iMovie at ridiculous bitrates to preserve quality, then do a lot of compression with Handbrake so you don't lose much quality. My clips are generally simple enough that I don't even use iMovie, I just feed the files from the camera into Handbrake.

[huskyfan]

It sounds like HB will recognize the mts format from Canon? Does HB import right off the camera or do you drag files to the HD and then import to HB? Also, does HB edit?

Also when you say ridiculous bitrates what range are you talking about?

Finally, I was playing around with different export settings on a 30sec clip. It seems like the resolution was not related to the size of the file. The 16MB file looked better and was a faster export than the 260MB file! Have you seen this?

Thanks.

[huskyfan]

I was able to play mts on HB, but only the video recorded in SP (medium quality). the highest quality recording setting (FXP) on the HF10 did not play well on HB (very choppy).

[mduell]

Originally Posted by huskyfan 

It sounds like HB will recognize the mts format from Canon? Does HB import right off the camera or do you drag files to the HD and then import to HB? Also, does HB edit?

Yes, Handbrake can read the MTS files from the camcorder or a variety of formats exported by iMoive/Quicktime. You could use the camera as the input for Handbrake, but it's a good idea to copy the MTS files to your hard drive first before using Handbrake. Handbrake does not edit.*

* You can set the start point (and soon the end point), but that's it. No combining clips (which are separate MTS files) or anything else.

Originally Posted by huskyfan 

Also when you say ridiculous bitrates what range are you talking about?

DV at 50Mbps, H.264 at 25Mbps, etc

Originally Posted by huskyfan 

Finally, I was playing around with different export settings on a 30sec clip. It seems like the resolution was not related to the size of the file. The 16MB file looked better and was a faster export than the 260MB file! Have you seen this?

I don't understand what you're compaing, but resolution is absolutely related to file size although there are other factors (like quality and the scene's complexity) that also have an effect. Using different codecs, appropriate settings, and different encoders you can get wildly different results.

Originally Posted by huskyfan 

I was able to play mts on HB, but only the video recorded in SP (medium quality). the highest quality recording setting (FXP) on the HF10 did not play well on HB (very choppy).

Handbrake does not play videos. Are you referring to the preview? It's slower to process when there's more data, you need to play the output file to see the result. Please provide the activity log from Handbrake if the output file plays poorly.

[huskyfan]

I am sorry, I was referring to the HB playback quality (not as a player).

Just to review...when I take an m2ts file recorded on FXP mode and export out of HB as an MP4 in either MPEG-4 or H.264 codec (quality is set at "constant quality" 100%) the playback of the outputed file is terrible. It is pixelated and stalls.

[huskyfan]

sorry mduell, I forgot to mention the HB activity log. Do you really want me to copy and paste the entire log window?

[mduell]

Originally Posted by huskyfan 

I am sorry, I was referring to the HB playback quality (not as a player).

Just to review...when I take an m2ts file recorded on FXP mode and export out of HB as an MP4 in either MPEG-4 or H.264 codec (quality is set at "constant quality" 100%) the playback of the outputed file is terrible. It is pixelated and stalls.

Start at 61% (RF 20). If that's not good enough, move up to maybe 65% (RF 18). If that's not good enough, move up to maybe 70% (RF 18). If that's not good enough or if you didn't see any improvement between the previous steps, you need to take another look at your source material for an idea of what's achievable; you can't get any better than your source. Watch scenes, don't compare still images. OTOH if 61% is good enough, try backing off to 56% (RF 22) and see if you're happy with that. Generally it takes increments of 5% to see a difference, and every 15% is a doubling or halving of filesize.

Originally Posted by huskyfan 

sorry mduell, I forgot to mention the HB activity log. Do you really want me to copy and paste the entire log window?

Not anymore, since your issue is the quality setting. But if I ask for one again, yes.