[zxhet]

Hi,

I've run into an AVI file and a WMV file lately that even the seemingly play-them-all VLC can't handle. The error message says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `IV50' (AVI file)/'WMAP' (WMV file)", respectively. And playing them with Quicktime gives me a white screen (I have Flip4Mac and Divx installed for QT).

Does anybody know in their experience what codec these files use and, more importantly, what typically plays them? I don't know if the newest VLC does the trick but I'm kinda stuck with VLC 0.8.6c, the highest version available to my 10.3.9 OS X.
Thanks!

[P]

Originally Posted by zxhet 

Hi,

I've run into an AVI file and a WMV file lately that even the seemingly play-them-all VLC can't handle. The error message says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `IV50' (AVI file)/'WMAP' (WMV file)", respectively. And playing them with Quicktime gives me a white screen (I have Flip4Mac and Divx installed for QT).

Does anybody know in their experience what codec these files use and, more importantly, what typically plays them? I don't know if the newest VLC does the trick but I'm kinda stuck with VLC 0.8.6c, the highest version available to my 10.3.9 OS X.
Thanks!

That is Indeo Video 5.0, which has always been a tricky format to play. Indeo was Intel's codec before they sold it to a company called Ligos Corporation many years ago. You say that you are using Mac OS X 10.3.9, which implies that you are on a PPC Mac. In that case, the only option I'm aware of is to play it in Classic:

* Download the special codec for Quicktime in Classic from here.
* Install it by dropping on the Classic System Folder
* Open the Classic Quicktime player. It should be in your Applications (OS 9) folder, and opening it will start Classic.
* From inside the Classic Quicktime, open the file you want to view.

This should be enough to play the AVI file. An Indeo 5 movie inside a WMV is a true bastard - are you REALLY sure that you get the same error for the WMV file? If so, your only option is to first convert WMV to AVI. There are multiple tools available for this, just google it.

[zxhet]

Thanks so much for clearing up my confusion about these mysterious video formats that always give me headaches! Sorry for the newbie question but where is this Classic System Folder that I'm supposed to drop the codec in? Also, I tried to switch startup disk to OS X 9 in System Preferences but OS X 10.3.9 and Network Startup are the only available folders. That means I don't even have OS X 9 installed, right?

You mentioned the Indeo is a Intel Codec that doesn't work on PPC Mac. Does that I mean if I buy a new Mac and get the newest VLC then I should be able to play it? If so, I might as well hold off on these files until I upgrade my Mac in a couple of months.

[Spheric Harlot]

OS 9 is OS 9. OS X is OS X. The "X" is a Roman numeral 10.

Your machine may well not be able to boot from OS 9, but since it's PPC, it's perfectly capable of running it as Classic mode within OS X.

If you don't have a folder called "System Folder" on your hard drive, you don't have it installed. (NOT "System" - "System Folder"!)

Install it from the original disks that came with your computer - it should be on the second disk.

[besson3c]

No need for all that.

from the Indeo Wikipedia page:

Official Indeo 5 decoders exist for Microsoft Windows, Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, BeOS R5 and the XAnim player on Unix. Versions 2, 3 and 5 have reverse-engineered decoders in FFmpeg. Indeo version 3, 4 and 5 are supported by MPlayer[2]

ffmpeg is available for OS X, and according to this there is an OS X native client for Indeo 5 video.

[reader50]

Yep, try a few other Mac video players. Any chance you could update to Tiger ( OS X 10.4.x ) ? That would greatly increase your pool of compatible players, including the Perian plugin for QuickTime.

You might try some of the older builds of Mplayer OSX Extended to see if any are 10.3 compatible.

[besson3c]

ffmpeg will apparently compile for Panther. You can compile it through Macports, but you might have a hard time finding XCode 1.5 though.

If you are interested in posting the video I'm happy to attempt to use ffmpeg to convert it to another format you can access.

[zxhet]

Thanks for all the nice tips guys. I did some research and it looks like the Indeo was a very old format that is being phased out. Do you think it will continue to see some daylight in the near future?

Spheric Harlot:
Thanks for the correction. I'll see if i can dig out the old disc.

besson3c:
A converter? Good idea. Have you tried it yourself to confirm it converts Indeos? Because according to these people, it doesn't:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+s...lc/+bug/490084
I'd give it a shot myself but it was a hustle last time I tried because it requires downloading 3 separate files from different sources and some of them don't have the version for OS X 10.3 any more...

reader50:
I really appreciate the link to the past versions of Mplayer. For a minute I thought I found a cure because I know Mplayer plays Indeo for sure. Unfortunately, even the oldest version on that page (rev 5) wouldn't launch in my OS (no response from double-clicking). No luck.

[besson3c]

zxhet: I was talking about using ffmpeg to convert the video, not VLC.

[reader50]

Try the old MPlayerOSX builds, near bottom of the list. The two oldest are from 2006. The MPlayer OS X Extended link I gave earlier only goes back to mid-2008.

You can also try the old Movist downloads - they go back to 2007.

[zxhet]

besson3c:
Yea, I gotcha man. I was talking about ffmpeg too. Regardless of whether it takes care of Indeo for sure, it does require downloading 3 separate components that I don't know if I can find any more for OS X 10.3. So...I'm a little hesitant to go through the finding, downloading, and manually assembling process unless I know more about it because some people confirmed(at least for some versions) it didn't do the job.

reader:
Again awesome resources. Looks like People don't think about 10.3 much beyond 2006. I finally got a MPlayer (1.0pre8 from 2006) that responds to my clicks. But still can't smoke that cigar lol. It plays other files alright but gets stuck with ones assumed to be the Indeo Videos. I wonder if Mplayer1.0pre8 is to primitive to have incorporated the proper decoder for it?

Please tell me, people don't make Indeo Videos much these days, right?

[besson3c]

Oh, you must be talking about ffmpegX in mentioning the 3 components it requires, I was talking about the command line tool (regular ffmpeg). If you are wanting to convert this video to a better format, the offer still stands for me to give this conversation a go for you. I've done this sort of thing in the past You'll probably eventually have some luck finding something that will play the video for you, but by converting it you will avoid this headache in the future. The only downside to conversion is that the quality won't be as good since you'll be compressing the video again.

[reader50]

zxhet, what version of QT are you using? There was a security problem, which Apple "fixed" in QT 7.5.5 by preventing the playback of any Indeo videos through QT.

Perhaps all you need is a QT version lower than 7.5.5 plus the 3rd party Indeo codec for QT.

[P]

Originally Posted by zxhet 

Again awesome resources. Looks like People don't think about 10.3 much beyond 2006. I finally got a MPlayer (1.0pre8 from 2006) that responds to my clicks. But still can't smoke that cigar lol. It plays other files alright but gets stuck with ones assumed to be the Indeo Videos. I wonder if Mplayer1.0pre8 is to primitive to have incorporated the proper decoder for it?

MPlayer will never play Indeo on PPC. If you look closely at the list of supported input formats, you will see:

Code:
Intel Indeo 4.1 and 5.0 (using x86 DLL or XAnim codecs)

MPlayer doesn't have native support, it only manages to use the DLLs from Windows. Those DLLs only work on x86.

(I knew this when I wrote the first post, but I didn't bother explaining. In retrospect, I would have saved quite a bit of digital ink if I had...)

To answer your earlier question: If you get an x86 Mac, it will support playing Indeo using Mplayer.

Originally Posted by zxhet 

Please tell me, people don't make Indeo Videos much these days, right?

No, they don't. There are some older webcams that do, but Indeo was never a particularly good codec, and it's positively ancient now.

[P]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

No need for all that.

from the Indeo Wikipedia page:

"Official Indeo 5 decoders exist for Microsoft Windows, Mac OS Classic, Mac OS X, BeOS R5 and the XAnim player on Unix. Versions 2, 3 and 5 have reverse-engineered decoders in FFmpeg. Indeo version 3, 4 and 5 are supported by MPlayer[2] "

ffmpeg is available for OS X, and according to this there is an OS X native client for Indeo 5 video.

Odd, because both VLC and Perian base their work on FFmpeg. If FFmpeg has support for Indeo 5, both VLC and Perian ought to support it, and they don't. FFmpeg also refuses to load external DLLs (there is even a FAQ about it), so they must have reverse-engineered it if it works. Something is strange here.

EDIT: Ah, now I see. Indeo 5 support was only stable as of FFmpeg 0.6, released fairly recently, and Perian has actually added support in the latest version (that doesn't support 10.3). Most likely VLC hasn't updated to the latest version of libavcodec yet.

[zxhet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

zxhet, what version of QT are you using? There was a security problem, which Apple "fixed" in QT 7.5.5 by preventing the playback of any Indeo videos through QT.

Perhaps all you need is a QT version lower than 7.5.5 plus the 3rd party Indeo codec for QT.

Nope. The one I have is 7.5.0. Plus, I still need Perian 1.2.1, right?

[reader50]

If you have an Indeo QT plugin, then you don't need Perian (which requires Tiger). Try the OS-9 QT plugin for Indeo. At worst, it won't work with OSX QT.

You can also try the binary codecs for Mplayer, which extends compatibility. You found the one Mplayer that works, perhaps the codec package will add your Indeo decode.

[zxhet]

Oh, I see. So ffmpeg is another open source project tool and ffmpegX is built by a third party. Sorry for jumping the gun earlier. I dug around and found this
FFmpeg on Mac OS X How-to
Looks like a lengthy process for getting those source codes, manually compiling them and then building the whole package. Is that what you want me to do, besson3c? I guess I could give it a shot but it's gonna take me a while with my Terminal skills.

But according to P, even if I can manage to do it, there's a good chance the source codes for ffmpeg compatible with 10.3 won't cut it. So I'm not sure.

[zxhet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

If you have an Indeo QT plugin, then you don't need Perian (which requires Tiger). Try the OS-9 QT plugin for Indeo. At worst, it won't work with OSX QT.

You can also try the binary codecs for Mplayer, which extends compatibility. You found the one Mplayer that works, perhaps the codec package will add your Indeo decode.

Okay. I'll check out the binary codecs and let you know.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by zxhet 

Oh, I see. So ffmpeg is another open source project tool and ffmpegX is built by a third party. Sorry for jumping the gun earlier. I dug around and found this
FFmpeg on Mac OS X How-to
Looks like a lengthy process for getting those source codes, manually compiling them and then building the whole package. Is that what you want me to do, besson3c? I guess I could give it a shot but it's gonna take me a while with my Terminal skills.

But according to P, even if I can manage to do it, there's a good chance the source codes for ffmpeg compatible with 10.3 won't cut it. So I'm not sure.

I suggested posting your video file so that I can convert the video using ffmpeg for you. You can post it here or via PM if you want, I figured I'd save you the hassle of getting ffmpeg up and running

[zxhet]

Nope, can't do. Indeo 4 and 5 are on the list of supported codecs but Perhaps they do use dll. Interesting thing is, this time the MPlayer control did launch instead of totally ignoring me, giving me a flash of hope.

[besson3c]

I'd focus on converting that file at this point, so that it is future proofed!

[P]

Some explanation of what the various projects are:

FFmpeg: A project to produce a library to encode and decode various formats. The project includes some command line tools to convert files, but no player. Focuses on implementing codecs directly into the code, and refuses to run binary "blobs" just make something work.

VLC: A player app that uses code from various projects, including FFmpeg but also some x86-only DLL files.

Perian: A Quicktime component - that is, a plug in for Quicktime 7 and below - to make it accept various file formats. Mainly uses FFmpeg.

Mplayer: a video player, originally for Linux-based systems running on x86, that focuses on getting as many video files as possible to run, using any trick in the book including running binary "blobs" such as Windows DLLs.

FFmpegX: A Mac OS X implementation of the converting tools included in FFmpeg. Currently unmaintained, as far as I can tell, and as such hasn't included the upgrade that supports Indeo Video 5.

[zxhet]

Originally Posted by besson3c 

I'd focus on converting that file at this point, so that it is future proofed!

I agree with ya. And you probably have the right tool and skills to do it. But the thing is, this sucker is almost 1.5G. I wish I had the means to upload and download it efficiently and I don't know if it is worth the trouble. But thanks, really appreciate the offer. Although If I happen to run into a smaller file of the same type later, I do wanna send it your way just to satisfy my curiosity . That is if you're OK with it.

[besson3c]

If you are able to setup me up with a download link I'm happy to give it a go, even at 1.5G.

Otherwise, I'd recommend transferring this file to a newer Mac running Leopard/Snow Leopard, installing XCode, Macports, building ffmpeg through Macports (which should be an automated, single command), and going from there. The syntax to convert this video from one format to another in ffmpeg should likewise be a single command, I'm happy to help with that part.

[zxhet]

Thanks, besson3c, appreciate that. So if there's no other suggestions, I'll just hold off on it until I get a new Mac or try installing OS 9 when I get a chance.

[cgc]

Indeo has always been problematic...thought it was a dead format.

[zxhet]

Actually, I have one more thing I want to make sure of. Our entire discussion was based on the assumption that these unplayable files are Indeo Videos. I can understand it must be Indeo if VLC says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `IV50'" because IV50 stands for Indeo Video 5.0.

But this other AVI file I have when played with VLC says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `MPEG'". Although it can't be played by my old Mplayer either, it does advance the Mplayer's playback bar while the Indeo AVI does not.

Also, this WMV file says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `WMAP'". VLC does display a screen but it is completely a mess.

Are these 2 files also Indeos but in different forms? Or are there other obscure formats at play here? Or it is simply because my VLC and OS not up-to-date enough to play them?

[reader50]

Download MediaInfo Mac from this directory. With any luck, one of the older releases will work under Panther. MediaInfo gives precise data on the media container used, and the audio / video codecs.

[zxhet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Download MediaInfo Mac from this directory. With any luck, one of the older releases will work under Panther. MediaInfo gives precise data on the media container used, and the audio / video codecs.

Thanks, Reader. I wanted something like that for a while. Unfortunately, it looks like the earliest OS those releases support is Tiger. Can you think of anything similar? It's really not a big deal to play those movies at this point but I'm still curious as to what codecs seem to cause the problems.

[reader50]

I'm not finding any alternatives that go below Tiger.

Could you upgrade? Any system that runs 10.3 should be able to run 10.4. Tiger should be easy and cheap to come by today too, since it has also been passed by.

[zxhet]

I know, that's certainly an option. But since 10.3 is still able to satisfy most of my computer needs, I just try to avoid the hassle of backing up and software reinstalling, especially considering I'm getting a new Mac by the end of the year. Kinda lazy driven. By the way, is this a good time to get a snow leopard Mac? Is it gonna last for a while this time?

[Spheric Harlot]

10.4 should be a matter of simply upgrading.

And if you're not running with a complete backup of everything important at all times already, you're doing it wrong.

[P]

Originally Posted by zxhet 

Actually, I have one more thing I want to make sure of. Our entire discussion was based on the assumption that these unplayable files are Indeo Videos. I can understand it must be Indeo if VLC says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `IV50'" because IV50 stands for Indeo Video 5.0.

But this other AVI file I have when played with VLC says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `MPEG'". Although it can't be played by my old Mplayer either, it does advance the Mplayer's playback bar while the Indeo AVI does not.

Also, this WMV file says "No suitable decoder module for fourcc `WMAP'". VLC does display a screen but it is completely a mess.

Are these 2 files also Indeos but in different forms? Or are there other obscure formats at play here? Or it is simply because my VLC and OS not up-to-date enough to play them?

You can find a list of all those codes at the official fourcc site. "MPEG" looks like a mistake in the encoding, because VLC should be able to play MPEG-1. "WMAP" is Windows Media Audio, which should play in Quicktime if you have Flip4Mac installed.