[funkboy]

Pardon the cliche, but I'm seriously wondering how I can take my designs to the next level of professionalism, slickness, whatever you want to call it.

I've done website design for a number of years, for pay, for clients and whatnot. However, I'd like to start honing my design skills, and I'm having some trouble doing it... all my new ideas for web pages have just been getting hung up at the design phase.

I want to make some really great, really innovative, groundbreaking sort of design for every client I do - but I usually just step back on some already established design idea. Not that that's a bad thing, many design conventions are conventions because they work - left-side nav bars, top navigation, etc.

However, I think I'm looking too hard to do something new, when really good new ideas just sort of "happen." Am I right? Anyone have any advice to get myself out of this design brick wall I've been hitting lately?

I think an excess of math and physics-related college classes are getting down on me, too... always looking for order, ways to simplify, reduce equations, always making order out of chaos... that doesn't exactly translate to great art, though it should translate to simplier, more readable design.

I don't know... brick walls are tough to break.

[calimehtar]

Well, I've done a lot of stuff _other_ than graphic design since I got out of school, and so you can take my advice or leave it as you wish. But I have an opinion on the subject.

Like art and music and just about everything else in this world graphic design is 3/4 doing a good job and 1/4 personal expression. A big part of looking professional is just taking care of all the little details without talking about it.

You're lucky or unfortunate depending on your perspective that your background is in mathematics. Regardless it is part of your own personal genius and you should exploit that. For example, take a scientific approach to design (this is what I do mostly) -- treat every new design as a problem: you have a paying customer and you have users, figure out what their needs are and find a way to satisfy them.

This approach to design usually results in extremely clean, simple, minimalist designs. And this is definitely a good thing in some cases (think of Google for example).

Also you say that you're worried that you lack creativity because you're always following otherr people's examples. This is not a bad thing if: you're not 100% copying other people's work, just using it for inspiration; and you understand what it is about the models that you use is good, choose models carefully to solve specific problems etc.

Everybody starts by following existing models and then splitting off from them. That's true in programming (it's much easier to learn by example rather than reading a manual), mathematics (Newton himself said "If I have seen further it is by standing on the shoulders of Giants"), and anything else you can think of.

[bluedog]

Two thumbs up! Graphic design and web design ALWAYS incorporate the message and conveying the message properly. When it comes to websites, your clients (unless they are MTV or some other pop-culture hip thing now) will want their sites to be easy to understand and use.

Conventions for site design have evolved from flashing text and animated gifs aplomb to reserved or information rich sites.

Take your design 'cues' from the sites you like. I've often tried to view a work of art and apply it somehow to my design. Perhaps using the color scheme for one site, or the shapes or hierarchy of shapes from another. This often leads to unconventional and refreshing ideas.

Don't sell your clarity out for 'cutting edge' or 'trend-setting' ideas unless that's where your market is.

[Colonel_Panic]

Also, check out

This site

[art_director]

funkboy:

i agree and disagree with every post you've received thus far. if you've read some of my past posts to similar questions i may sound like a broken record.

here's my 2¢:

- "I want to make some really great, really innovative, groundbreaking sort of design for every client I do" -- why? why don't you try and do what's right for your client, not what's right for your ego / portfolio? most designers pass through this phase. sometimes the best solution is a simple, tasteful one based on tested design principles.

- "However, I think I'm looking too hard to do something new, when really good new ideas just sort of "happen."" -- yep, sounds to me like your trying to push it out. sit back, relax and feel around for the solution.

- "I think an excess of math and physics-related college classes are getting down on me..." -- can definetly be a problem. you need to find a way to break the analytical thought of such subjects.

---

my opinions of the comments from others...

- "When it comes to websites, your clients (unless they are MTV or some other pop-culture hip thing now) will want their sites to be easy to understand and use." -- so very true. if your work doesn't communicate the brand message then what fookin' good is it?

- "Take your design 'cues' from the sites you like. I've often tried to view a work of art and apply it somehow to my design. Perhaps using the color scheme for one site, or the shapes or hierarchy of shapes from another. This often leads to unconventional and refreshing ideas." -- sound advice but i would add that once you have some 'cues' from sites you like you should get off the fookin' web. why copy what's been done? learn from what's been done then figure out a new inspiration to repurpose from. maybe a print ad gets you going. perhaps an art museum. could be good ol' nature. heck, believe it or not, i once got an idea from bird droppings that won me a big national award. inspiration is out there, you just need to be open and receptive to it.

- "Don't sell your clarity out for 'cutting edge' or 'trend-setting' ideas unless that's where your market is." -- this is the best advice given thus far. cutting edge for sake of cutting edge is creative masterbation. there MUST be a reason for what you do for it to be relevant.

- "Also you say that you're worried that you lack creativity because you're always following otherr people's examples. This is not a bad thing if: you're not 100% copying other people's work, just using it for inspiration; and you understand what it is about the models that you use is good, choose models carefully to solve specific problems etc. " -- i agree and disagree with this one. i commented on this above but would add that you can also get ideas from what you think is crap design. why is it bad? what would help it to communicate better? see what i mean?

- "Everybody starts by following existing models and then splitting off from them." -- complete fookin' b.s. it's not as clinical as that for eveyone. we all get inspiration from different places there is no formula. in my career i've done lots of print, collateral, t.v., interactive and p.o.s. through it all i've listened to one creative super star after another preach about this or that creative formula. after hearing all sorts of egomaniacs and their theories i can tell you it's a crock. inspiration comes to those who accept it and from any where at any time. sure, it may come from an existing piece but that's not where the best ideas come from. that's where the reused ideas come from.

[funkboy]

Thanks for all the input from everyone so far. I've really appreciated it, and it's helping me gain some insight. Input from anyone else, or more from anyone who's already posted, would also be appreciated.

In response to some of the previous comments:

- "Don't sell your clarity out for 'cutting edge' or 'trend-setting' ideas unless that's where your market is." -- this is the best advice given thus far. cutting edge for sake of cutting edge is creative masterbation

Wow, that's a term I've never heard of before... thanks for... opening my eyes
But I do agree - I've never been big on being too trendy, though styling your site so it's appealing and in-sync with the look of what's currently popular in pop culture, music, TV, etc. is something I usually try to go with. At least, something that looks nice anyway.

I have been trying to push something out... and not just when I was in the bathroom. However, when I was studying, of all things, and in the library, of all places, I got a bit of an inspiration - an idea for a layout just kind of hit me. Right out of the blue, for the most part. So, even just doing your daily routine, you'll eventually get some ideas... though I was in the library at 10:30 pm, which is definitely not a daily routine for me... three tests this week not a good thing.

- "Everybody starts by following existing models and then splitting off from them." -- complete fookin' b.s. it's not as clinical as that for eveyone.

That's a tough call... I think we're all inspired by some other thing at some point, but like my thought I got last night - that came out of the blue, and I know of nothing I've seen (except a PBS website awhile ago, that doesn't even have the same idea in mind) that looks like what I've done.

after hearing all sorts of egomaniacs and their theories i can tell you it's a crock. inspiration comes to those who accept it and from any where at any time.

I like this idea much much better.

Also you say that you're worried that you lack creativity because you're always following otherr people's examples.

Hmm... I didn't quite mean to say that, if it sounded like that. I usually just go ahead with whatever idea I have, but it's usually steeped in some tradition. I've always wanted to, you know, break ahead with some completely new navigation system. Something that just made sense to everyone... but that's very, very difficult (and probably unrealistic) to attain.

If you'd like to check out my portfolio, visit:
http://www.karlbecker.com/webdesign/

Take your design 'cues' from the sites you like. I've often tried to view a work of art and apply it somehow to my design. Perhaps using the color scheme for one site, or the shapes or hierarchy of shapes from another. This often leads to unconventional and refreshing ideas.

I too like to look at art for ideas. Masterpieces and whatnot - big fan of Van Gogh and Georgia O'Keefe (hope I spelled that right), among plenty of others. I love art in all forms, and I can usually get some inspiration from it.

Just last summer I was in a national design competition. I took a trip to a modern art museum in the city where the competition was held (it was behind my hotel, so hey, why not?) , and the next day at the competition, what was I thinking of? Doing something more modern. I think I went a little too modern, though I really liked what I did, even to this day. (in the contest, everyone gets about 6 hours to design and comp some design project - here it was a DVD case for an imaginary reality-based movie. it's definitely intense to do it that quickly)

And Colonel Panic... designiskinky.com is kinky. Very kinky. So kinky I don't know what the heck is going on. I noticed an article on there called "Is usability dead?" and the first words said no, it wasn't. I beg to differ about their website, though... yikes.