[scadboy]

In four weeks, the undergraduate portion of my academic career will be over, I will have a Bachelor of Fine Arts in Graphic Design from the semi-prestigious Savannah College of Art and Design. So?

What's the market like? A girl I knew who graduated last year came back to speak to my portfolio class, and her outlook was rather dire.

She'd had two jobs in the year since she graduated and was let go from both, and currently was having an incredible amount of difficulty finding a new position.

Truth be told, she sucks. I knew her before she graduated, her Quark skills were always pretty lame, and her portfolio was extremely weak, last I saw it. Judging from the jobs she showed us from her first year in the industry, she hasn't gotten any better, either.

So, is her experience typical, or appropriate to her ability level? Should I bother trying to get a job, or just find a nice grad school and settle in for another two or three years of college and get my masters? What's it feel like out there? Anyone know of any particularly good / bad places to try to find a job?

any advice is appreicated.

[scottiB]

Should I bother trying to get a job, or just find a nice grad school and settle in for another two or three years of college and get my masters?

You may have missed the window for Fall '03. I know Cranbrook Academy of Art and Yale's grad programs have finished their selction processes--others' selections may've ended, too.

[godzookie2k]

Should you BOTHER getting a job? Of course you should BOTHER. If you aren't itching at the chance to bite into some client work you might be in the wrong field. Grad school, especially for design is a waste of time without any real world experience. Don't go to grad school just as a cop-out to toughing it out in a hard economy. This economy is weeding out the men from the boys, if you aren't confident in your skills to step up, then thats another matter altogether.

[iT4c0]

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
Should you BOTHER getting a job? Of course you should BOTHER. If you aren't itching at the chance to bite into some client work you might be in the wrong field. Grad school, especially for design is a waste of time without any real world experience. Don't go to grad school just as a cop-out to toughing it out in a hard economy. This economy is weeding out the men from the boys, if you aren't confident in your skills to step up, then thats another matter altogether.

I totally agree on this one, godzookie. I am also a student in graphic design field. I am getting my certificate in Electronic Publishing this May. I can not wait to get out and get more real world experiences. In graphic design field, experience > degree.

[scadboy]

Originally posted by godzookie2k:
Should you BOTHER getting a job? Of course you should BOTHER. If you aren't itching at the chance to bite into some client work you might be in the wrong field. Grad school, especially for design is a waste of time without any real world experience. Don't go to grad school just as a cop-out to toughing it out in a hard economy. This economy is weeding out the men from the boys, if you aren't confident in your skills to step up, then thats another matter altogether.

While I find the language of your response terse, I do appreciate your input. But perhaps the language of my post is what set you off, so I apologize if I seemed abit blaisé about my future direction. Truth be told, I am very eager to get into some real work. Several freelance jobs having whet my appetite over the past few summers, I am anxious to dive in, and confident in my ability to "step up."

Could you perhaps elaborate on the job market, as you see it, at the moment. How long have you been working in the field professionally? How many positions have you held, any advice from a seasoned veteren for a rookie starting to find his sea legs?

I could go anywhere after I graduate, and while my research has yielded a few possibilities, I'm interested in hearing some other peoples' experiences before I decide on a direction.

[art_director]

scadboy:

godzookie was not terse, he was honest. if you don't have fire in your belly for this biz you best run, not walk, away.

since you reposted i will give you my 2¢:

i'm going to get blasted for this but, imo, a masters in design is a waste of time and money. some of the best art directors and designers in the biz have never even graduated from college*. mind you i'm not advocating that people skip an education but for some it's not neccessary. a masters is simply an excuse to avoid work. it teaches you nothing about marketing, printing or the real world of design. let me add that i know *few* designers / art directors with masters that are very good. imo it's because they wasted time on theory rather than practicing the craft.

as for the woman who left and came back, well, you said she sucks, why bother with her assessment?

the economy blows, no hiding that fact. when i started my first job search we were in the last recession. i was lucky and got a job fast. one of my friends looked for nine months before he got a gig. he then went on to work for a number of the world's best shops. still does. my point? don't give up. stick to your guns and make it happen. it may be a long road but you'll be stronger in the end.

it's a great biz but it's a damn tough one. i know because i've been doing it long enough and in enough markets where i've seen it from many different angles.

what to do / where to go:

1. avoid headhunters. they're more interested in cattle calls and filling spots. they may act as if they represent you but they do not.

2. avoid the coasts. they are the sexiest places to work and their markets are flooded. try other markets. you can still do good work and find people to learn from.

3. if the search goes on for a period continue to work on your book. do not rest on your laurels.

4. do not whore yourself in hopes of getting paying work. internships are one thing giving away work something else.

5. skip the masters. you don't need it.





*i offer one example: susan hoffman at weiden & kennedy. she's worked on the nike account for over a decade and is considered among the best in the biz. she never graduated from college.

[sethwrks]

Originally posted by art_director:

the economy blows, no hiding that fact.

scadboy-
Pay attention to what these people are telling you!
The "digital market" gets a little more flooded EVERY DAY, with good designers and "bandwagon jumpers" alike, trying to make a nitche for themselves in this industry. The more time you waste getting in , the harder it will get.

[art_director]

sethwrks underscored my point: real world production & client experience beats out a masters degree everyday of the week.

[DesignerTerp]

I am going to reiterate what everyone else said and tell you to skip the grad school.

As for the job market--depends on where you are and where you want to go. When I graduated college 3 and half years ago, I moved out to Oregon where the job market was very, very tight for designers. I did find a job after about a 2 months there. Then I got laid off the first time, from there. I decided to move back home to the DC Metro area where the job market was flourishing (this was 2000). I was probably sending out around a dozen resumes/week. Found a job and got laid of again after 9/11. I eventually found my present job. I check the listings every day for a new one and there is just nothing out there, right now.

My advice would be look for a job, find something that will inspire and challenge you. Most of all, don't settle. In the meantime, try temping. I did temp work for Randstad Creative and Aquent and made amazing money and kept busy. Definitely check them out. Good luck!

[godzookie2k]

scadboy: heheh that wasn't terse, you've never seen me terse.

Getting into the field, especially these days you *have* to be multi-talented, you have to be fast, and you have to be able to deliver great work under insane deadline. Kind of like the small, fast, agile, mammals vs the big lumbering dinosaurs. You have to pour blood, sweat, and tears into your resumes, and be constantly sending them out. Your ID package has to be spectacular. Your portfolio has the be spectacular. You also have to be lucky.

Send your work out.... EVERYWHERE. you also have to make the hard choice, considering your own financial situation. "Will I take *any* job in the field that comes along because I am that desperate, or can I afford to wait for the job that I really want?"
Most people don't have the financial security to do the latter, but you never know. Tell everyone you talk to that you are a designer, hand everyone two cards, one for them and one for the person they give it to. Learn to schmooze potential freelance clients with the best of them. Constantly modify and tweak your ID package until you find what works, customize your cover letters for the job, customize your portfolio and resume for each job. Try to send out one ID package a day. Make it your goal of sorts. I've discovered that looking for work via the Monster.com's & co. Is just an utter waste of time, simply because it is a case of odds, which, aren't good at all. Send out portfolios to studios work you admire. Then send out portfolios who's style works with yours. Then send out portfolios to studios who have clients that you'd like to work for. Then lastly, send work out to any other studios that you haven't hit yet. Newspapers are a surprisingly good resource to look for jobs in. But I think cold-mailing is the best bet.

bio:
Godzookie2k has been working proffessionally for about 6 years. He did about 30 hours a week worth of freelance work while in school full time to pay for school. He graduated about 2 years ago. He is a jack of all trades of sorts, doing a wide array of work from motion graphics to video editing to interactive (programming and front end design) as well as print. He has carried most titles available in the field at some point or another, from scan monkey to art director. He's currently under a full load of freelance work (a few posters, some ID stuff, lots of writing, and one mega project involving a MySQL database, flash forum, XML CMS, and all the trimmings). He's also employed full time at a national magazine as an advertising designer.

[art_director]

godzookie was wise to include a bio so you know where the advice is coming from.

art_director bio:

started in the midwest. freelanced my way through college. have worked in eight different agencies over the past ten years -- some were short stints at multiple offices within the same network. worked in the midwest, on both coasts and in two asian markets. client experience includes a number of multinational corporations in everything from durable goods to cars to high tech to telecommunications and everything in between. have played the award show game with success appearing in most every national and international competition and a number of local shows. the past two years have been spent freelancing for a number of agencies across the u.s. and for many of my own clients. still have the fire in my belly to do good work.

[scottiB]

A note regarding graduate school:

Unlike advanced degrees in business and engineering--where advanced degrees are often prerequisites for fields--advanced degrees in artistic fields (design, photography, sculpture, architecture, writing) are more for personal pursuits and exploration. They are not needed and, considering art_director's tone towards them, are, perhaps, a liability in finding employment (and, having met a few graphic designers with master's degrees, some can be a tad pompous).

Applying to art/design grad school fresh out of undergrad delays the designer from gaining experience in the commericial field (and all that entails) and, actually is a disservice to both the student and the degree. Some designers (and writers) I've met who attended grad school directly from undergrad haven't maximized their opportunities to learn because they haven't maximized themselves--finding their true writing or designing voices by actually working. In this case, the two years in master's studies essentially is an extension of undergrad, but with far more debt.

I wouldn't consider a master's in design wasteful--I don't believe any learning is, if done sincerely--but don't consider it as a delaying tactic or as any advantage in your employment search. Your portfolio's the key.

Good luck and don't make sh!+.

[ultra-V]

What others have been saying are all good. Experience trumps education in this field. I know some for whom grad school was helpful - as undergraduate programs give the basics, but there's a lot that doesn't get covered. But most of it is the practical stuff that you should get on the job. Grad school is useful to those who have a hard time pushing themselves creatively.

First thing first is always the portfolio. Put only the best stuff in there. Better to have fewer strong pieces than a bunch of mediocre ones.

You'll want to look into moving to a metropolitan area. That's where the jobs are. Maybe start with looking into Atlanta. There are plenty of great firms there (I worked there after graduating from UGA Athens 7 yrs ago). I'm not sure what the job market is like there now though. Pick a week to go visit a city, call all the agencies in town to let them know you are coming and would like to talk to them. Then network the hell out of everyone while you are there. If they say "We don't have any positions now" ask if they know who does. Often, they'll call their friend at another agency while you're there. It's a small world.

I know in NYC firms are hiring freelance a lot more than full-time. Agencies have had to lay off tons of people, but there's still a lot of work to be done, so they hire on project basis as workload demands. Take any experience you can get. Occasionally, I have found headhunters can be useful - yes, they have their clients' (the agencies) at heart, but sometimes have good openings.

Anyway, I wish you the best of luck!

As for my bio:
I've been working professionally for 8 years, beginning in Atlanta, then moving to NYC. I've worked constantly at various agencies the whole time, until December, when I left to freelance/build my own biz with my own clients. Won various local/national/international awards. Worked on projects from annual reports to branding/identity to brochures to websites to CD-ROMs for companies ranging from technology to finance to liquor to nonprofit foundations.

[Powaqqatsi]

Very interesting thread . I dream of working in the design biz, but I don't know if I'm talented enough .I can take good pictures tough . I'm 17 and I have no bloody idea what I'm going to do, except for that dream. Also here in Belgium, I don't know any place where you could learn all this stuff (som ekind of Art School). Does anyone know of one here, or in Paris or London or something like that ?

And I also think that those Masters are a waste of time. (altough I have no experience so I can't really say that)

PS: I'm doing my first "big" job .I'm designing a website for my father's bussiness. (my thread about the text replacing has something to do with it )

[art_director]

Powaqqatsi:

you are in one of the most exciting parts of the world for design. i know there are a number of wonderful schools in london and paris but do not have names for you. i would start by calling design studios, ad agencies and, since you love photography, photo studios for your research. ask for designers or art directors or photographers and ask for some advice. people in this biz are usually happy to help -- except in new york.

if i were you i'd be attacking amsterdam. it's arguably one of the hottest places on the planet for advertising & design at the moment.

to get the names of some hot shots check out lürzer's archive magazine, communication arts (especially the design, advertising & photo annuals). they will give you a place to start.

good luck.

[Powaqqatsi]

Thanks art_director, well Amsterdam is an option too. But I'd love to go to Paris, best place in the world. I'll check around. I'll also check out lürzer's archive magazine, communication arts
And I need to cut down on the smileys .

[scadboy]

Thanks again to everyone who has contributed so far. Much of it correlates with what I've heard in my portfolio class this quarter.

I'm apt to agree with the general consensus on grad school. Especially in light of the way my school handles it. I don't know if this is common, but here at SCAD, there's not really much of a difference between the classes undergrads and grads take. In fact, they take the exact same section of a given course, but they were required to complete a single extra assignment, and pay more for tuition. Certain classes are restricted to graduate students, but for the most part, they take the same classes as I do. I know more than a few grad students who've been at SCAD their entire academic careers. If I were to continue my education, I'd think it would be better to go somewhere else after getting a bachelors.

My school has tried to impress upon us the notion that, given the economic situation, it's better just to "wait it out," and get your masters. Wait for things in the job market to get easier. Obviously, it's marketing, they want you to spend more money at the school, and, given the state of our Graphic Design department (we have an unusually high rate attrition, due primarily to the untimely expiration of many faculty members) they've been looking for more ready-made professors to fill the empty spots quickly.

There is another factor that's somewhat out of my hands that's going to have a pretty profound impact on where I end up. I've been in a relationship for over three years, we're both graduating at the end of the month. Our fields are vastly different, he's a 3D animation major, a very specialized field, with relatively few companies that hire 3D animators. He's been job hunting like mad for the past month, and we've basically agreed that we'll move wherever he gets work. Which will most certainly be a metro area. But at the same time, he still really doesn't know where he's going to get hired. He's sent out promotional packages (that I helped design ;-) to over twenty companies all over the board. And as soon as he gets hired, that's pretty much where we're going.

As a person, I can be happy absolutely anywhere. I can deal with any weather, and I can't think of anywhere, except maybe Los Angeles, where I really couldn't be happy, so location really isn't a concern. Visiting locations hasn't been an option. I have neither wheels nor time at this point, with four weeks and a ton of work left to do. I've been working on something that I can send out and start the process, so I can start whipping them out once we have a location to work with. But in the meantime, it's been abit frustrating.

Does anyone specialize in package design and point-of-sale, or multipage layout (books, brochures, etc.). These are the fields I'm most interested in, anything three-dimensional or tactile. Can you break into these fields straight out of college, or is something you have to work your way into? Any insight? I enjoy copy writing, coming up with slogans, narratives, and developing a multi-layered experience. I'm also really good at getting inside the head of a particular demographic, and seeing things from their perspective. But also, I'm very interested in the production end of design, and don't know if it would be beneficial to start out on the technical end of design.

Thanks again...

[cowerd]

All you dissing a graduate degree in graphic design should consider that "graphic design" is an expanding field of knowledge and it is possible (if this is where your interest lies) to continue studies in UI design, information visualization, new media. There are many designers with strange graduate degrees floating, many courtesy of John Maeda's Aesthetics and Computations Group at MIT.

PS: A Masters in Architecture is not for personal pursuit. It may become the lowest level of education required for licensing if the powers that be have their way.

[ultra-V]

But also, I'm very interested in the production end of design, and don't know if it would be beneficial to start out on the technical end of design.

Listening to your background, I'd say stick to design work. Once you get a job in the production department, it's hard to cross back over to the design side.

people in this biz are usually happy to help -- except in new york.

New York is not the place it used to be, or that it's made out to be. There are plenty of nice people in the design biz here. But then it's not southern hospitality, it is a big city after all.

[scottiB]

Originally posted by cowerd:
PS: A Masters in Architecture is not for personal pursuit. It may become the lowest level of education required for licensing if the powers that be have their way.

My apologies, I was just listing the departments off the top of my head at Cranbrook Art Academy. I probably spoke out of turn in including it.