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I WAS the One · Sep 2, 2005, 08:43 AM

I will begin to design a magazine about fashion, and to be sincere it will be my first whole mag proyect, I used to design covers and ads before but usually they send me the measurements and I just send it the final art right away, but now, I need info, on what is the best program for build the mag and what are the page measurements, somebody told me Indesign is great for the content, others says Quark, I don't know any of thouse, so I want to know the best app for that to buy it right away, and also the page measurements.

thanxs for the help.

andi*pandi · Sep 2, 2005, 09:51 AM

A magazine can be any size you want it to be. What will limit you is how much your client is willing to pay for paper and postage, and whether you're in US or not. In US, most everything is around 8.5x11. In Europe, I think A4? Check out your local newsstand or bookshop.

And InDesign is great. If you don't know any apps, how did you design the ads and covers?!?

I WAS the One · Sep 2, 2005, 02:43 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

A magazine can be any size you want it to be. What will limit you is how much your client is willing to pay for paper and postage, and whether you're in US or not. In US, most everything is around 8.5x11. In Europe, I think A4? Check out your local newsstand or bookshop.

And InDesign is great. If you don't know any apps, how did you design the ads and covers?!?

Hey hey hey!... Stop right there....
I've been a freelance graphic artist for 15 years, from posters to billboards, from business cards to flyers, brochure etc... you name it, i've done it.

I use Photoshop 5.5, 7.0, CS and CS2 in differents Macs, two laptops and two towers, one is a G3 beige and the other is a MDD G4, Most of the time I work with Freehand for the line art designs, and Amorphium for 3D, still living in a classic OS9 environment most of the cases (still using streamline and great PS 5.5 plug-ins don't want to lose ;-) and prior to that I do a lot on 9 with Audio production) and now speeding my graphic jobs with Tiger and CS2, the final arts end in .Tiff format most of the time at 300dpi res, and when is lineart it is a fh8 file or an illustrator one, but most of the cases is an eps file. don't try to put my experience on the line here, it's not fare. For your information I do not need any application like In Design or Quark for designing, ok, I never build any book or anything like that and in my opinion, its not a happy place to be... I design corporate entity images, like logos, prototypes, ads, and publishing designs, so I do not need thouse apps, so don't tell me why I didn't have Indesign and ask me How I design with out it... thats Low, man... (anyhow long live Page Maker! the God father of page designs...)

I was asking for a program to build a complete Mag, that every print company understand inmediatly. (Indesign or Quark) it will be a Mag about 8.5 x 11, a cosmopolitan kind of mag, but I see you just want to do a critique and not to help. thanxs for make a boiling water pod out of my head! Jesus!!!

God... deers shooting to hunters!

tpicco · Sep 2, 2005, 02:47 PM

see below

tpicco · Sep 2, 2005, 02:49 PM

Many magazine I work on are 8 3/8 x 10 7/8... so it might be a "common" size... call a magazine printer... "Common" sizes are a little cheaper usually. As for design apps, I am not aware of any... there is one expensive one that helps you layout the map, but it's mostly for mega-publishers with assorted local editions... called Proteus, if I remember...

Macola · Sep 2, 2005, 03:07 PM

Since you're already familiar with CS2 apps, get InDesign. There's nothing really special about magazine layout. If you're talking about imposition, that's another story, but the print shop should take care of that.

andi*pandi · Sep 2, 2005, 03:41 PM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

God... deers shooting to hunters!

hey, chill. No harm intended, just seemed an odd question to ask. Most designers I know don't lay ads and covers out in photoshop or Illustrator/Freehand, there's been many posts here about that too.

Good luck!

tpicco · Sep 2, 2005, 05:34 PM

Speaking as a magazine art director with a strong hand in production, about 15 to 20% of ads we recieve come in as Illustrator or Photoshop EPSs, and who knows what the PDFs started as? So his comment is not unusual. As a matter of fact, last I knew WIRED was totally done in Illustrator as of a few years ago... Seemed labor intensive to me, but that's what I read...

I WAS the One · Sep 2, 2005, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

hey, chill. No harm intended, just seemed an odd question to ask. Most designers I know don't lay ads and covers out in photoshop or Illustrator/Freehand, there's been many posts here about that too.

Good luck!

we're cool! sorry for my little attitude.

I WAS the One · Sep 2, 2005, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by tpicco

Speaking as a magazine art director with a strong hand in production, about 15 to 20% of ads we recieve come in as Illustrator or Photoshop EPSs, and who knows what the PDFs started as? So his comment is not unusual. As a matter of fact, last I knew WIRED was totally done in Illustrator as of a few years ago... Seemed labor intensive to me, but that's what I read...

in illustrator? really? thats cool!!! good to know... and thanxs for the help! I really apreciated!

himself · Sep 3, 2005, 01:13 PM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

in illustrator? really? thats cool!!! good to know... and thanxs for the help! I really apreciated!

While it is possible to layout an entire magazine in Illustrator, I wouldn't recommend it. You would only be able to design one page/spread at a time, and putting the finished publication together would be more difficult than it needs to be, for both you and your printer. However, you could build your pages in Illustrator, and place them in InDesign and send it out that way, but if you are already familiar with Illustrator and Pagemaker, InDesign shouldn't be too much of a stretch to pick up. It would make everything much easier on you in the long run.

I would recommend Quark, but who knows where they will be in few years... as a company, they don't seem to be well prepared, and the transition to Intel may really force people who use Quark now to switch to another app if they aren't ready with a timely release. Besides, InDesign integrates well with the other CS apps and is just plain easier to use if you haven't used either.

d.fine · Sep 4, 2005, 03:06 AM

InDesign. Trying to make a magazine in Illustrator or PS would be crazy. In ID you have much more control over the fonts, kerning and spacing than in IL and PS. I work together with PS and IL to adjust the images, or create a cutout, whatever, but the main thing I always make in InDesign. I'd recommend it.

Here in Europe many press-shops have taken the InDesign side, as opposed to QuarkXpress.

As to sizes, you see all kinds of sizes and shapes here. I think you'll have to take it up with the customer concerning that. Most used would be A4 (297x210) or B4 (364x257mm) here, but I've seen small squares, long rectangular... you name it. Maybe you can take something original, make sure it catches the eye...

mydog8mymac · Sep 4, 2005, 08:31 AM

I've created books and multi-page brochures in both Quark and InDesign. I prefer InD, less of a learning curve if you're familiar with other Adobe products.

One thing that might be helpful is to ask your printer if they need the final version in printer spreads or if you can just give them the ID or Quark file, and they will orient the pages for the press. This will save you from a potential headache if you are not familiar with printer spreads or how its finially set up on the press.

I WAS the One · Sep 4, 2005, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by mydog8mymac

I've created books and multi-page brochures in both Quark and InDesign. I prefer InD, less of a learning curve if you're familiar with other Adobe products.

One thing that might be helpful is to ask your printer if they need the final version in printer spreads or if you can just give them the ID or Quark file, and they will orient the pages for the press. This will save you from a potential headache if you are not familiar with printer spreads or how its finially set up on the press.

True.

Not always but sometimes I had that problem, the client is happy, but the printer is calling saying they not work with FH files or Illustrator, they just have Quark, sometimes (when I send a brochure) they want the pages apart and they feel better building the spreads... I used to work on a big Miller on the feeding process and in the registering print out images back in the days, and let me tell you, not everybody works the same, a couple of years ago the company I used to direct in the art department filled a whole spread with differents jobs at the same time, one spread could had flyers and brochures in one. it was a way they save money, but was a hell dealing with it.
maybe its more realistic call the printer and ask what they need right?

production_coordinator · Sep 4, 2005, 03:00 PM

I design a 16 page newsletter for my local hiking club. It's basically printed on toilet paper [OK, the lowest quality paper]. It's printed on a web press [I'm more of a sheet fed person] so I asked the printer what works best for him. He gave the dimensions.

If you want something unique, you will need to talk to a printer.

Regarding your software... you need to think about purchasing Quark or InDesign (I'm not going to get in an argument over which is better). Anything else is going to cause real problems. You need a real page layout program... Illustrator and Photoshop simply aren't good enough.

quietjim · Sep 4, 2005, 03:16 PM

I took over a small national magazine a little over a year ago. We bought Powerbooks and the CS suite for deisgn, Office for everything else and have been pretty happy. I love InDesign (I used to teach PageMaker). It works, doesn't crash, and is efficient.

One thing that has been a frustration is that we are a cycle or two ahead of our (very conservative) printer. I suspect you are going to find out that unless you are tied to one printer, all your output will be to PDF's and I think Adobe does this best (no surprise!). Printers seem to like to do their own imposition.

As to size...we work to 8.5x11, it's easy, efficient and works for us.

I WAS the One · 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by quietjim

I took over a small national magazine a little over a year ago. We bought Powerbooks and the CS suite for deisgn, Office for everything else and have been pretty happy. I love InDesign (I used to teach PageMaker). It works, doesn't crash, and is efficient.

One thing that has been a frustration is that we are a cycle or two ahead of our (very conservative) printer. I suspect you are going to find out that unless you are tied to one printer, all your output will be to PDF's and I think Adobe does this best (no surprise!). Printers seem to like to do their own imposition.

As to size...we work to 8.5x11, it's easy, efficient and works for us.

so, it seems I have to work alone on this magazine, yesterday I received an email asking how much for the whole mag, and to be honest I never worked on a job like this and I don't know how much it is... If I charge per page or something like that it will be a LOT, so, it gotta be some price for the whole concept. 64 pages full color, 8.5 by 11, bi-monthly, anyone wanna tell me a yearly invoice idea? help me here, I don't wanna lose this job! how much for a complete mag?

Thanxs

osinsh · Sep 19, 2005, 09:04 AM

hey! help the man!
[i can't - don't know Your country's prices

]
from my opinion, this job could be considered as regular - well paid as monthly main income - so, basically, what salary is ok for your level, that's the price!

KeriVit · Sep 19, 2005, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

so, it seems I have to work alone on this magazine, yesterday I received an email asking how much for the whole mag, and to be honest I never worked on a job like this and I don't know how much it is... If I charge per page or something like that it will be a LOT, so, it gotta be some price for the whole concept. 64 pages full color, 8.5 by 11, bi-monthly, anyone wanna tell me a yearly invoice idea? help me here, I don't wanna lose this job! how much for a complete mag?

Thanxs

I do a mag of similar size and it takes about 80 hours, I charge different rates for dif tasks. Mine is yearly, perhaps if it were more often, I would allow for that and discount the rate somewhat...

I WAS the One · Sep 19, 2005, 02:47 PM

Originally Posted by osinsh

hey! help the man!
[i can't - don't know Your country's prices

]
from my opinion, this job could be considered as regular - well paid as monthly main income - so, basically, what salary is ok for your level, that's the price!

I live in Orlando Florida... so it's basically the same US prices! you know...

I WAS the One · Sep 19, 2005, 02:52 PM

Originally Posted by KeriVit

I do a mag of similar size and it takes about 80 hours, I charge different rates for dif tasks. Mine is yearly, perhaps if it were more often, I would allow for that and discount the rate somewhat...

like your concept...
but can you tell me what would you charge for a job like that... (sorry for ask) If you want I can tell you what I'm planning to charge for it and then you tell me if I'm exagerating or not you know...
I know its look like putting a price to my work, but it isn't right now its like a big step for me, I will be cancelling the regulars little jobs I have, and work only on this one and on a comic-strip I do for a local newspaper... so, I need to know an amount, please...

inkhead · Sep 19, 2005, 04:52 PM

Well since you have so much experience, I suggest you use google. Or perhaps you could lay a magazine open on your desk. Geeze how hard was that to figure out? I mean if you done any of this for more than 10 minutes.. eyeballing a magazine would make the dimensions obvious....

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

Hey hey hey!... Stop right there....
I've been a freelance graphic artist for 15 years, from posters to billboards, from business cards to flyers, brochure etc... you name it, i've done it.

I use Photoshop 5.5, 7.0, CS and CS2 in differents Macs, two laptops and two towers, one is a G3 beige and the other is a MDD G4, Most of the time I work with Freehand for the line art designs, and Amorphium for 3D, still living in a classic OS9 environment most of the cases (still using streamline and great PS 5.5 plug-ins don't want to lose ;-) and prior to that I do a lot on 9 with Audio production) and now speeding my graphic jobs with Tiger and CS2, the final arts end in .Tiff format most of the time at 300dpi res, and when is lineart it is a fh8 file or an illustrator one, but most of the cases is an eps file. don't try to put my experience on the line here, it's not fare. For your information I do not need any application like In Design or Quark for designing, ok, I never build any book or anything like that and in my opinion, its not a happy place to be... I design corporate entity images, like logos, prototypes, ads, and publishing designs, so I do not need thouse apps, so don't tell me why I didn't have Indesign and ask me How I design with out it... thats Low, man... (anyhow long live Page Maker! the God father of page designs...)

I was asking for a program to build a complete Mag, that every print company understand inmediatly. (Indesign or Quark) it will be a Mag about 8.5 x 11, a cosmopolitan kind of mag, but I see you just want to do a critique and not to help. thanxs for make a boiling water pod out of my head! Jesus!!!

God... deers shooting to hunters!

I WAS the One · Sep 19, 2005, 05:43 PM

Originally Posted by inkhead

Well since you have so much experience, I suggest you use google. Or perhaps you could lay a magazine open on your desk. Geeze how hard was that to figure out? I mean if you done any of this for more than 10 minutes.. eyeballing a magazine would make the dimensions obvious....

I didn't get your vibe, man... but I appreciate your help anyway. thanxs

and by the way, for all the guys who really help me here, thanxs a lot! I already know an answer to this kind of job, that I NEVER DID in the past, so for the first time on a whole proyect like this one, I will be more than happy to keep you all by my side, everyday all of us learn something new. this was my time to learn, thanxs to all!

KeriVit · Sep 20, 2005, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by I WAS the One

like your concept...
but can you tell me what would you charge for a job like that... (sorry for ask) If you want I can tell you what I'm planning to charge for it and then you tell me if I'm exagerating or not you know...
I know its look like putting a price to my work, but it isn't right now its like a big step for me, I will be cancelling the regulars little jobs I have, and work only on this one and on a comic-strip I do for a local newspaper... so, I need to know an amount, please...

Well, I work for a shop, not freelance, but I think it may be more like 90 hours (and I am very efficient mind you). But the price is about $9000. If and when I do it freelance, it will probably be $4500 to me and my company will mark it up to $9000.

Don Pickett · Sep 20, 2005, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by tpicco

Speaking as a magazine art director with a strong hand in production, about 15 to 20% of ads we recieve come in as Illustrator or Photoshop EPSs, and who knows what the PDFs started as? So his comment is not unusual. As a matter of fact, last I knew WIRED was totally done in Illustrator as of a few years ago... Seemed labor intensive to me, but that's what I read...

Used to know a guy who did all his page layout in Illustrator, no matter the length.

My two cents on the ID/Quark issue: the longer the document, the better Quark becomes.

I WAS the One · Sep 20, 2005, 05:14 PM

Originally Posted by KeriVit

Well, I work for a shop, not freelance, but I think it may be more like 90 hours (and I am very efficient mind you). But the price is about $9000. If and when I do it freelance, it will probably be $4500 to me and my company will mark it up to $9000.

thanxs for the advice! good to know.