[Veltliner]

I just created several designs for business cards.

The printer recommended to do it in Pdf.

Now I know that when you open a Pdf in Photoshop, Photoshop turns the vector graphics into pixels.

But:

The one design I chose, I flattened the document before burning to a CD.

Now, looking at it in Bridge, this business card looks really out of focus. I mean, when I open any of the documents and increase the display percentage, I see the pixels.

But this flattened one looks already out of focus, when the other, non-flattened ones still look sharp.

Is there a trick to flattening a Pdf, or what happened?

[Thorzdad]

What application are you creating the PDF in?

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

What application are you creating the PDF in?

Photoshop CS3.

I created a muli-layered document, saved as pdf right from the start, and flattened it at the end.

If you increase zoom ratio, you see the pixels.

But even when displayed at 1:1 on a 24" monitor it doesn't look sharp. Less sharp than other drafts of the same size. I kind of don't dare to give out such a file, but can't seem to find the reason why it looks that way. I flattened another one of my drafts, and it looks better than this one.

[Thorzdad]

Well, for one, Photoshop is not the application you should use when doing type-based designs like business cards. Use InDesign or Illustrator for that. When you save as a PDF in ID or Illy, the text remains vector/postscript and will print sharp and clear.

That said, if you are working in Photoshop, you should keep the work in Photoshop format (.psd) all the way through. Only export to another format (.pdf, .tif, etc) when you are completely done. Without actually seeing the working file, I can't say exactly what happened to make the text fuzzy. It sounds like the file resolution was changed to a low-rez setting. I also have to wonder if saving as a PDF over and over didn't cause problems. There's no reason to save as a PDF until, as I said, you are completely finished with the design. What PDF settings did you use when you did a save?

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Well, for one, Photoshop is not the application you should use when doing type-based designs like business cards. Use InDesign or Illustrator for that. When you save as a PDF in ID or Illy, the text remains vector/postscript and will print sharp and clear.

That said, if you are working in Photoshop, you should keep the work in Photoshop format (.psd) all the way through. Only export to another format (.pdf, .tif, etc) when you are completely done. Without actually seeing the working file, I can't say exactly what happened to make the text fuzzy. It sounds like the file resolution was changed to a low-rez setting. I also have to wonder if saving as a PDF over and over didn't cause problems. There's no reason to save as a PDF until, as I said, you are completely finished with the design. What PDF settings did you use when you did a save?

Thanks for the tips.

You mean saving Pdfs leads to deterioration like with JPEGs?

I actually only worked in Pdf (setting: maximum quality for print in the pdf menu).

So, if I worked in PSD, text created with the type tool would stay in vector graphics and not be pixellated?

Looks like I'll have to redo the whole design and do it in PSD this time (I first wanted to print the cards at kinkos (they asked for a pdf), but now I'm going to a different printer who just wants CMYK files).

I know, InDesign would be better, but I couldn't justify this expense, as I am mainly in photography, and do graphics design work only once in a while and for myself only.

[crazyreaper]

also make sure that you have that font active/installed if you switch machine, i think there's a setting where you can opt out of imbedding the typeface into the PDF so if the destination doesnt have the typeface, or you have changed computer/deactivated the typeface then this would lead to as you described. but im pretty sure that the high quality print setting should be default imbed)

but yer its not a good way to work to edit a PDF you should only export as a PDF and should always work in the original file format (in this case PSD)

the 2nd printer want CMKY files, as in a file for each C, M, K, Y, thats strange to me, i havent delt with printers much but from what i have been taught and the times i have delt with them they normally just want a CMKY DPF

(also a note, i dont know how use to dealing with CMYK if your more of a photography man but make sure when u open photoshop and start the design the first thing u do is switch colour mode to CMYK)

[red rocket]

The thing is, when you’re working on any file in Photoshop, you are not working in a scalable vector format. If something looks smooth, it’s because antialiasing is going on. You could get a sharp design in Photoshop, but you have to decide on the resolution right in the beginning, and stick with that. For instance, if you know that the printer you’re going to prints at 600 dots per inch, and your design is supposed to be two inches wide when printed, you will have to have a document that is 1200 pixels wide and has a working resolution of 600dpi.

That said, you really would be a lot better off doing the whole thing in Illustrator or something similar. You could either download the trial version of Illustrator (runs for thirty days, I believe), or use a freeware application such as Inkscape.

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

You mean saving Pdfs leads to deterioration like with JPEGs?

Saving and re-saving a PDF over and over could, very possibly, lead to deterioration.

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I actually only worked in Pdf (setting: maximum quality for print in the pdf menu).
So, if I worked in PSD, text created with the type tool would stay in vector graphics and not be pixellated?

As long as you don't convert the text (in order to apply a filter effect, for instance) the text will remain vector and scalable. The editability, though, still isn't as flexible as the text will be in the other two applications. If, at any time, you flatten the file, the text will be converted to pixels.

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Looks like I'll have to redo the whole design and do it in PSD this time (I first wanted to print the cards at kinkos (they asked for a pdf), but now I'm going to a different printer who just wants CMYK files).

ALL files being sent to any printer should be CMYK. That includes PDFs sent to Kinkos. CMYK is the color space for print. RGB is the color space for web display. Now, you can work on the file in RGB for maximum flexibility, but you need to convert the file to CMYK before you give it to the printer. File resolution needs to be, at the minimum, 300dpi (as opposed to 72dpi for online/web images)

PDF is still the preferred format for printers, including your new printer. The main advantage is that you can embed the fonts into the PDF, eliminating the need for giving the printer the fonts along with the art file. Trust me...that used to be a huge pain.

Also, If your card art features an image that bleeds off the edges, you need to construct the file with about 1/8" of bleed past the crop edges. You will need to include crop marks, so the printer knows exactly where to trim the cards.

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

I know, InDesign would be better, but I couldn't justify this expense, as I am mainly in photography, and do graphics design work only once in a while and for myself only.

I feel your pain. I often skip updates due to the cost.

[hedmisten]

You can send someone the design so they can live trace it in illustrator. This will create a full vector image for you to take to the printer. Chances are, the printer will resize it to fit the cards. Remember to leave the 3/8" for bleed on the edges.

Once it is vector, you will enjoy the full crispness at every size.

[crazyreaper]

disagree very strongly with the above post, a live trace will not be sharp enough, especially on something already pixelated and should there be any any unblock colour on the card it will make that section look like a Gif. your just going to have to start again, do any block colour using the pen tool in photoshop, keep the text in a non rasterised format, and only exsport as a PDF at the end, you can also design at 600 DPI too.

[Thorzdad]

I agree with crazyreaper about not using LiveTrace. It just won't give you accurate results.

Chances are, the printer will resize it to fit the cards. Remember to leave the 3/8" for bleed on the edges.

Ummm...Unless you didn't prepare art to the correct size and bleed, a printer should never, never, never, NEVER need to re-size your art. Any printer who does this automatically should be avoided like the plague. He's not a professional. And 3/8" is a pretty big bleed, too. Most of the profesional shops I deal with are good with 1/8"...1/4" at the most.

[crazyreaper]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

I agree with crazyreaper about not using LiveTrace. It just won't give you accurate results.

Thanks Jim doesnt happen very often

Ummm...Unless you didn't prepare art to the correct size and bleed, a printer should never, never, never, NEVER need to re-size your art. Any printer who does this automatically should be avoided like the plague. He's not a professional. And 3/8" is a pretty big bleed, too. Most of the profesional shops I deal with are good with 1/8"...1/4" at the most.

very true regarding the resizing, a printer should never touch your artwork in any way shape or form unless instructed to. i dont know how this translates into inches but in the UK we use 3mm bleed as standard, cutting accuracy has improved a lot and you should never see a cut extend outside of the 3 mm bleed

[Thorzdad]

3mm is just under 1/8"

[hedmisten]

I was saying that live trace is an option if you don't have a vector art program of your own. If you have a small jpeg that is not pixelated yet, live trace can be used or someone can create the same image in illustrator.

As for someone touching your artwork. Chances are, if you are designing your business card in Photoshop, you don't do business cards often. Vector artwork is the preferred format for business card printers. They will adjust your artwork for you, I saw it done twice last week at IMpulse(officemax printing) They simply drag your image off your media into indesign and manipulate it for fitting onto their business cards stock.

Guess we have different procedures down here in the south.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by crazyreaper 

also make sure that you have that font active/installed if you switch machine, i think there's a setting where you can opt out of imbedding the typeface into the PDF so if the destination doesnt have the typeface, or you have changed computer/deactivated the typeface then this would lead to as you described. but im pretty sure that the high quality print setting should be default imbed)

but yer its not a good way to work to edit a PDF you should only export as a PDF and should always work in the original file format (in this case PSD)

the 2nd printer want CMKY files, as in a file for each C, M, K, Y, thats strange to me, i havent delt with printers much but from what i have been taught and the times i have delt with them they normally just want a CMKY DPF

(also a note, i dont know how use to dealing with CMYK if your more of a photography man but make sure when u open photoshop and start the design the first thing u do is switch colour mode to CMYK)

Yes, I'll redo the whole thing in PSD (in CMYK mode, light GCR) because this new printer doesn't insist on getting a Pdf.

I wonder what the advantage of a Pdf would be over a psd file.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by red rocket 

Inkscape.

I'm going to look at this one.

I noticed from my old design that in fact text copied across several documents and rescaled often got blurry, while text that stayed the same size in Photoshop stayed sharp even until 600% magnification.

The thing is that I just got so used to Photoshop that I'm a bit reluctant to learn new software at this moment (especially as I'm learning XHTML, CSS and, later, Java).

[Thorzdad]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Yes, I'll redo the whole thing in PSD (in CMYK mode, light GCR) because this new printer doesn't insist on getting a Pdf.

I wonder what the advantage of a Pdf would be over a psd file.

In one word...embedding.

PDFs carry the fonts with them. Back before PDF, you'd have to give the printer both the art file and the font files. This sometimes caused a lot of problems, especially back when Mac and PC fonts weren't interchangeable.

Same with any images used in the design. You would have to provide the printer with any image files (tiff, eps, etc.) that were linked to in the base art file. A PDF has them embedded. No need for separate files. A PDF has everything in one portable package.

What do you mean by "light GCR"?

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

PDF is still the preferred format for printers, including your new printer. The main advantage is that you can embed the fonts into the PDF, eliminating the need for giving the printer the fonts along with the art file. Trust me...that used to be a huge pain.

So I'll work in psd and then convert to pdf so the fonts are embedded. Thanks.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by Thorzdad 

Same with any images used in the design. You would have to provide the printer with any image files (tiff, eps, etc.) that were linked to in the base art file. A PDF has them embedded. No need for separate files. A PDF has everything in one portable package.

What do you mean by "light GCR"?

Oh, yes, embedding photos!

To change a psd to a pdf I just use "save as" and choose pdf, I guess.

Light GCR as light gray component replacement, so you stay within the maximum allowed ink limit and still get rich blacks. You take away equal amounts of C, M, and Y ink and replace them with a lower amount of black ink and still have the same colors, but use less ink, as K covers better.

But I have to ask the printer first how their ink limit is, and then I need to decide how to stay below that limit.

[crazyreaper]

Originally Posted by Veltliner 

Light GCR as light gray component replacement, so you stay within the maximum allowed ink limit and still get rich blacks. You take away equal amounts of C, M, and Y ink and replace them with a lower amount of black ink and still have the same colors, but use less ink, as K covers better.

But I have to ask the printer first how their ink limit is, and then I need to decide how to stay below that limit.

wow we havent coloured GCR and Ink Limits at uni, i'll ask my tutor when i go in today if this is something i need to know.

[Veltliner]

Originally Posted by crazyreaper 

wow we havent coloured GCR and Ink Limits at uni, i'll ask my tutor when i go in today if this is something i need to know.

There's a slight misunderstanding.

GCR isn't "colored". You take away some ink from C, M, Y, and add K. This is merely to get good shadows without using too much ink. There are ink limits on certain papers. Worst is newspaper (which is one step above toilet paper, and that's what it's used for by some the next day...) with a max of 240%. So, if you get a shadow that has a total of 280%, you have too much ink, which could cause problems with drying or smearing.

So, to get good shadow, you take away C, M, Y, in equal quantities, and increase K, but much less than you took away C, M, Y ink. So you still have a dark shadow, and save ink.

In Photoshop, you can go to custom CMYK, and change the GCR settings. You will see the changes in the black channel. Light GCR has a very faint black channel, medium you will see more black.

[red rocket]

Sounds to me as if he meant they haven’t covered GCR at his university, kind of makes more sense than colouring something.