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mattyb · Mar 6, 2010, 07:29 AM

I have a fairly decent flash attached to a flash cable attached to my camera. I'd like to learn about off camera flash but I get the impression that the majority of tutorials are to do with a flash positioned on a tripod, with some preparation of the shot involved - I'm limited to the more spontaneous photos.

So has anyone got a decent reference/link/book about using off camera flash with a flash cable (no other equipment, no umbrellas, pocket wizards etc)?

cheers,

Matt

mduell · Mar 6, 2010, 12:54 PM

Is the flash on an L bracket or what?

mattyb · Mar 8, 2010, 05:58 AM

No handheld, connected to the camera via the cord.

richwig83 · Mar 8, 2010, 06:18 AM

Look on ebay for yongnuo RF 602... wireless flash trigger... VERY cheap and VERY reliable and you can place the flash anywhere you want!

mattyb · Mar 8, 2010, 09:22 AM

TBH, its not the cable that bothers me, its the technique and some guru's advice that I need.

Oisín · Mar 8, 2010, 09:35 AM

A handheld off-camera flash will always be a disadvantage to you, with only one hand free to operate the camera (I’m assuming here that you have only two hands). Unless of course you have helpers, in which case I might start calling you Santa.

I’m a far cry from being a guru, but I would generally just aim for achieving the same thing with an off-camera flash as with an on-camera one: emulating a true light source (lamp, sun, fluorescent over-tanned *********, etc.). Reflecting the flash off of a smooth surface often helps, whether that’s an umbrella or a wall/ceiling or whatever. Apart from that, I’ve got nothing.

Thanks for the Yongnuo tip, though, Rich—I think I’m going to get one of those.

mattyb · Mar 8, 2010, 09:49 AM

Yeah one hand on the camera (its a little D40 so not too much of an issue). I was wondering how one should point the flash (opposite to a good light source - like fill flash) or perpendicular to it or what. Should I have it one full power, should I have a diffuser etc etc. Places like the Strobist seem to cater for really setting up a shot.

I'll keep searching.

richwig83 · Mar 8, 2010, 10:07 AM

No probs Oisín... they are brilliant and you can have multiple receivers too... BUT they obviously dont do TTL, so they need a little extra care!

Oisín · Mar 8, 2010, 10:37 AM

I never use TTL, anyway. It always seems to put the flash at full power or 1/2–1/4, which is both unnecessary and too much, and also drains the battery really quickly. I usually have the flash in manual mode, at 1/32 or 1/64, which is fine and dandy for my needs.

OreoCookie · 12:24 PM

What kind of camera do you have?
I've heard that some Canons can do that, too, but don't trust me on that.

If you have a Nikon (D90+), you don't have to get anything, you can use off-camera flashes via the built-in commander mode. It works very well: I'm using an SB-600 with a D80 and I'm a very happy camper.

Edit: I noticed you've posted later on that you have a D40. I don't think the D40 comes with Commander Mode enabled. In any case, I'd look into getting an SB-600 or better. If you get an SB-800, you can use its built-in Commander Mode to trigger other Nikon speedlites. They shouldn't be too expensive.

mattyb · Mar 8, 2010, 01:59 PM

I guess that I'm not being clear. I'm not bothered about using a cable attached flash (Metz 48 - like an SB-600).

What I want to learn about is technique about how I should position and set the flash to get the best results.

OreoCookie · Mar 8, 2010, 02:49 PM

Ok, I misunderstood.
First of all, the positioning of the flash is something that crucially depends on your surroundings: are there walls to the left/right? How high is the ceiling? What kind of effect are you looking for? Removing the flash from the optical axis and having light from the left will make structures and shapes more pronounced (I'm assuming you're pointing the flash directly onto your subject). If you point the flash away from the subject I don't necessarily see the point of using the pc cord at all: I'm not sure about the Metz, but my SB-600 can swivel 360 degrees. So I can bounce light from behind me without taking the camera off the flash.

It's basically impossible to give you a straight answer. However, possibly the best resource for all things on lighting is the strobist website.

Oisín · Mar 8, 2010, 04:02 PM

If you point the flash away from the subject I don't necessarily see the point of using the pc cord at all: I'm not sure about the Metz, but my SB-600 can swivel 360 degrees.

Sometimes you get obstructions (beams under the ceiling, etc.) that ruin the bouncing of the light if you have the flash on the camera. In those cases, it can be nice to have some extra leeway to move the flash around and point it at something that will reflect a uniform light, rather than a broken light, back at the subject.

mattyb · Mar 9, 2010, 08:28 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Ok, I misunderstood.
First of all, the positioning of the flash is something that crucially depends on your surroundings: are there walls to the left/right? How high is the ceiling? What kind of effect are you looking for? Removing the flash from the optical axis and having light from the left will make structures and shapes more pronounced (I'm assuming you're pointing the flash directly onto your subject). If you point the flash away from the subject I don't necessarily see the point of using the pc cord at all: I'm not sure about the Metz, but my SB-600 can swivel 360 degrees. So I can bounce light from behind me without taking the camera off the flash.

The Metz is basically a SB-600 in functionality but a bit cheaper. It swivels, it has a (mini) diffuser, it has a small flash card.

My thoughts were that getting the flash off of the camera was seen as an overall 'good thing' and that photos could be improved by not having the flash on the same axis as the camera. When indoors, like for a recent birthday party for my daughter, I had the flash on the camera pointing straight up at the ceiling, or when doing portrait, pointing towards a wall. TBH, I'm not sure if I'm happy with the results. The photos are OK, but nothing special. Of course it is a 6 year old's birthday party so ...

I'd also like to use the flash outdoors, maybe shooting BMX riders or skaters in a skate park. I'm not sure if these sorts of shots would benefit from the off-camera flash or not.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

It's basically impossible to give you a straight answer. However, possibly the best resource for all things on lighting is the strobist website.

I guess that I just have to get reading, and hope to find something for my usage on his site. Thanks for the link.

Matt

OreoCookie · Mar 9, 2010, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by mattyb

The Metz is basically a SB-600 in functionality but a bit cheaper. It swivels, it has a (mini) diffuser, it has a small flash card.

Does it work in concert with Nikons CLS (Creative Lighting System)? I was thinking of getting the Metz last Christmas, but I went for a used SB-600 instead. My brother just got me a tripod for my birthday and my hands are tingling in excitement: I want to use it as a light stand (although I guess my brother had a different use in mind). Second question: the SB-600 comes with a tripod stand, how about the Metz?

Originally Posted by mattyb

My thoughts were that getting the flash off of the camera was seen as an overall 'good thing' and that photos could be improved by not having the flash on the same axis as the camera.

No, for sure it is. I didn't want to come across as discouraging you from experimenting. To be honest, I haven't tried very hard to use my SB-600 in this way (because the setup felt awkward in my hand). I was experimenting more with putting the SB-600 somewhere in a room and then to optimize the remote setup. I have a lot to learn.

Originally Posted by mattyb

When indoors, like for a recent birthday party for my daughter, I had the flash on the camera pointing straight up at the ceiling, or when doing portrait, pointing towards a wall. TBH, I'm not sure if I'm happy with the results. The photos are OK, but nothing special. Of course it is a 6 year old's birthday party so ...

When you take the pictures, do you have a specific look in your head? I very much recommend the Strobist 101 article on balancing ambient light with flash light. Only a year after getting my first external (proper) flash did I understand how you can influence the look and feel of an image. Now when I'm taking pictures with a flash, I am in full manual mode, although the flash is still in full-auto TTL. My 30 mm f/1.4 prime gives me a lot more options to simply experiment.

Originally Posted by mattyb

I'd also like to use the flash outdoors, maybe shooting BMX riders or skaters in a skate park. I'm not sure if these sorts of shots would benefit from the off-camera flash or not.

For sure they will. Probably it's more useful to put the flash on a tripod or at least at some fixed position near, say, a ramp. I've seen some amazing pictures, perhaps I'll add a link to this post if I find some.

mattyb · Mar 27, 2010, 08:37 AM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Does it work in concert with Nikons CLS (Creative Lighting System)? I was thinking of getting the Metz last Christmas, but I went for a used SB-600 instead. My brother just got me a tripod for my birthday and my hands are tingling in excitement: I want to use it as a light stand (although I guess my brother had a different use in mind). Second question: the SB-600 comes with a tripod stand, how about the Metz?

Dunno about CLS. I didn't get anything else with the Metz, no attachment, no stand.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

No, for sure it is. I didn't want to come across as discouraging you from experimenting. To be honest, I haven't tried very hard to use my SB-600 in this way (because the setup felt awkward in my hand). I was experimenting more with putting the SB-600 somewhere in a room and then to optimize the remote setup. I have a lot to learn.

Me three !

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

When you take the pictures, do you have a specific look in your head? I very much recommend the Strobist 101 article on balancing ambient light with flash light. Only a year after getting my first external (proper) flash did I understand how you can influence the look and feel of an image. Now when I'm taking pictures with a flash, I am in full manual mode, although the flash is still in full-auto TTL. My 30 mm f/1.4 prime gives me a lot more options to simply experiment.

Dunno what look will please me yet. Obviously 6 yr old birthday party photos aren't to everyone's tastes but I just wanted to ensure that I get a non blurry photo with the minimum of over exposure - I shoot RAW so can always use Aperture afterwards (I'm not scared of it anymore).

I'm still confused about flash usage and terminology. Now that I've gotten my Sigma 10-20mm I really need to get to grips with it so that I can capture my kids properly.

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

For sure they will. Probably it's more useful to put the flash on a tripod or at least at some fixed position near, say, a ramp. I've seen some amazing pictures, perhaps I'll add a link to this post if I find some.

Cheers, sorry that I didn't post in a while.