[fisherKing]

...rocks!
sounds better than 1.0, fuller. "flat" eq is already an improvement.
the eq is excellent (altho i haven't explored it much).
the crossfade & enhancement options are great, make a big difference.

all in all, a great upgrade of a great program.

(& mine, with mix&match interface elements from resexcellence.com skins, looks great too)

[Mac Guru]

Using a beta release now and I have to say it's about a 2 fold improvement over 1.1. Good job Apple.

Mac Guru

[philzilla]

hey cool! it's got a cross-fade thing and an equaliser!!!

uhh... just like Mint Audio has for ages...

[Michael De Luca]

I have some questions that I haven't found answers for on Apple's website. Can anyone answer ALL the
questions below:

1. I understand that equalization settings can be saved for each song individually. Does that include the
gain/volume setting?

2. When burning a CD from a playlist where each song has an individual gain/volume, will the burned CD
reflect the various gain settings for each song... (like Adaptec Jam 2.6.2)?

3. Are the settings good for Mp3 as well as AIFF when used to burn CDs.

4. I have heard that Apple's Mp3 conversion is of a much lesser quality than say Roxio Toast. Is this true
with iTunes 2?

5. Can iTunes burn data as well and if so, which formats? I am specifically interested in multi-session mac
volumes, single session ISO9660/Mac hybrid disks, and audio.

If the gain can be controlled individually for each song burned onto a CD in AIFF format, along with cross
fade, and equalization... , who will need Toast and Jam?

Awaiting your answers with much anticipation... thanks.

[Mac Guru]

Oohhhh kinda like how Mint Audio DOESN'T have CD Burning, doesn't sync with many MP3 players... etc. Mint Audio is nice but iTunes is better IMHO.

1. I understand that equalization settings can be saved for each song individually. Does that include the
gain/volume setting?

2. When burning a CD from a playlist where each song has an individual gain/volume, will the burned CD
reflect the various gain settings for each song... (like Adaptec Jam 2.6.2)?

3. Are the settings good for Mp3 as well as AIFF when used to burn CDs.

4. I have heard that Apple's Mp3 conversion is of a much lesser quality than say Roxio Toast. Is this true
with iTunes 2?

5. Can iTunes burn data as well and if so, which formats? I am specifically interested in multi-session mac
volumes, single session ISO9660/Mac hybrid disks, and audio.

To answer your questions...

1. I am not sure... I have yet to try this out. I believe it IS possible but not sure.

2. Once again, I am not sure... it is basic. My suggestion is for high quality burns, use Roxio.

3. I would suggest AIFF for burning. MP3's lose their fidelity even at the highest encoding... AIFF files are uncompressed so they naturally sound better.

4. 160 encoding is 160 encoding to me... I have not noticed any difference in encoding quality.

5. I have never seen this feature enabled... I have not been able to burn data with iTunes.

Mac Guru

[ 10-30-2001: Message edited by: Mac Guru ]

[Mac Guru]

Using a beta release now and I have to say it's about a 2 fold improvement over 1.1. Good job Apple.

Mac Guru

[Capacola]

I'm using v 2.0f12

Crossfade works great! Equalizer makes the songs sound a little better. ...I really wish I had an iPod right now.

I will say Now that iTunes has all of these features it's becoming a little complex to use.

[fisherKing]

if you use itunes 2 "out-of-the box", it's the same as using 1.0.
except the crossfade & enhancement options are on by default, and make the program sound noticeably better.
the eq option is just that: an option.
but play around with it!

also,

1. I understand that equalization settings can be saved for each song individually. Does that include the gain/volume setting?
YES

2. When burning a CD from a playlist where each song has an individual gain/volume, will the burned CD reflect the various gain settings for each song... (like Adaptec Jam 2.6.2)?
don't know, just got the app today

3. Are the settings good for Mp3 as well as AIFF when used to burn CDs.
don't know, just got the app today

4. I have heard that Apple's Mp3 conversion is of a much lesser quality than say Roxio Toast. Is this true with iTunes 2?
no reason why it should be..

5. Can iTunes burn data as well and if so, which formats? I am specifically interested in multi-session mac
volumes, single session ISO9660/Mac hybrid disks, and audio.
time for toast.

bon apetit!

[OverclockedHomoSapien]

1. I understand that equalization settings can be saved for each song individually. Does that include the
gain/volume setting?

Yes. Each song can have individual gain, volume, and EQ settings, just like in Soundjam.


4. I have heard that Apple's Mp3 conversion is of a much lesser quality than say Roxio Toast. Is this true
with iTunes 2?

No. The bitrate can be adjusted in iTunes, just like it can be in Toast, and it is the bitrate that determines the quality of an MP3.

5. Can iTunes burn data as well and if so, which formats? I am specifically interested in multi-session mac
volumes, single session ISO9660/Mac hybrid disks, and audio.

iTunes really isn't any good for burning, you are much better off with Toast Titanium (which is excellent for creating multi-session volumes and hybrid discs). Apple's burning software doesn't allow you to create multi-session discs, so it's basically useless for backing up data incrementally. For burning music I suppose it's ok, but Toast is easier to use and faster.

I think the deal is that Apple wants their stock CDRW drives to be "functional", but they don't want to put Roxio out of the Mac business, so they make sure that the standard burning software that comes with Macs sucks ass...keeping a good incentive to spend money on Toast. I guess this is better than how Microsoft just buys up competition and monopolizes everything.

Anyways, it's good to finally see Apple implement all of Soundjam's features. G-Force is available for iTunes, so now that iTunes has an EQ, there's nothing to stop me from using it full time. I think iTunes is now the best available music player for Mac OS; an excellent app for a very specific purpose. I like how it doesn't try to do "everything".

[Michael De Luca]

Thanks everyone for responding to my post.
If you get any additional info as you use and discover the program, please let me know.

Okay... toast for data.

The main question I have remaining is: will itunes2 burn AIFF files to CD with the gain setting specified. The reason this is important to me is that many songs are recorded at various volume/gain levels. If they aren't adjusted at burn time, some songs are too loud or too soft in comparison to other songs.... very distracting.

Again, thanks for taking the time to answer.

To be clear, I was referring to Jam... not SoundJam.

[SpeedRacer]

iTunes = all the features of SoundJam? I don't think so. Still lacking sound-in recording (one of the more unique/high-end features of SJ), MP3 stream broadcasting integration, and alarm clock/sleep timing.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to see some of the more common features of the average MP3 player come to iTunes, but i think anybody following Apple's products over the past several months/years is aware that Apple buys out the best audio/video/DVD maker on the market and then either (a) splits the product into pro and consumer versions or (b) releases a top-notch GUI'd, sub-featured product only to release a more comparable product to the one that it is intended to replace 6-12 months later.

My question: Do cross-fades carry over to standard burned audio CDs? Nobody that's used it seems able to give a yea or nea on that one (though i suspect the answer is "no")

Speed

[Cipher13]

Originally posted by SpeedRacer:
<STRONG>iTunes = all the features of SoundJam? I don't think so. Still lacking sound-in recording (one of the more unique/high-end features of SJ), MP3 stream broadcasting integration, and alarm clock/sleep timing.

Don't get me wrong, it's great to see some of the more common features of the average MP3 player come to iTunes, but i think anybody following Apple's products over the past several months/years is aware that Apple buys out the best audio/video/DVD maker on the market and then either (a) splits the product into pro and consumer versions or (b) releases a top-notch GUI'd, sub-featured product only to release a more comparable product to the one that it is intended to replace 6-12 months later.

My question: Do cross-fades carry over to standard burned audio CDs? Nobody that's used it seems able to give a yea or nea on that one (though i suspect the answer is "no")

Speed</STRONG>

I'd tell you if OSX would recognise my burner as more than just a damn CD drive

[jog]

can I finally listen to live albums in iTunes 2?

[tinrib]

Originally posted by OverclockedHomoSapien:
<STRONG>i]4. I have heard that Apple's Mp3 conversion is of a much lesser quality than say Roxio Toast. Is this true
with iTunes 2?[/i]

No. The bitrate can be adjusted in iTunes, just like it can be in Toast, and it is the bitrate that determines the quality of an MP3.
</STRONG>

No, different programs use different encoding algorithms so a 160kbs file produced by one will NOT be the same as a 160kbs file produced by another. I am not sure which program has the best...

[dr. zoidberg]

Originally posted by jog:
<STRONG>can I finally listen to live albums in iTunes 2?</STRONG>

could you please explain that?

[ARENA]

Originally posted by jog:
<STRONG>can I finally listen to live albums in iTunes 2?</STRONG>

WTF do you mean?

[fisherKing]

day 2 observation:
the default setting on the "sound enhancer" needs to be backed off from center a little.
for me (playing my pismo thru a stereo system), sound was overloaded. aargh!

otherwise, loving it.

[jog]

iTunes has a short silence between two tracks which SoundJam didn't have - this is really annoying when listening to live albums...

[gpau]

Originally posted by jog:
<STRONG>iTunes has a short silence between two tracks which SoundJam didn't have - this is really annoying when listening to live albums...</STRONG>

Here's some information you should take on board. Stick with SoundJam. iTunes is not nearly as robust when it comes to burning. It does the same thing with DJ mixed CDs which, needless to say, interrupts the flow somewhat.

[BLeonard]

I avoided ITunes as I was already a SoundJam User and the product I already had seemed more complete. I use SoundJam to convert tracks off of Audio CD's to MP3s mostly for playback at my computer. I don't burn MP3 CD's much and I use Toast to burn audio CD's in regular AIFF format.

Now that ITunes 2 is here (and I'm thinking about that IPod) should I convert from SoundJam to ITunes 2? Will I be missing something good?

[mitchell_pgh]

Apple totally needs an iTunes Client Server edition!!!

I don't need/want 4 copies of the same song on every one of my computers...

[RichardS]

Can you tell me if the visualizer framerate, or the visuals themselves, have improved?

[Colonel Panic]

more than the visuals framerate - does it suck down as many CPU cycles as iTunes currently does? If you turn the equalizer off, can it run more efficiently than iTunes does?

[phantomdragonz]

where do I get the beta????

I WANT IT BADDD.

EDIT: i need a developer mailing right? or just of the developer site? hummm i will check it now.

[ 11-01-2001: Message edited by: phantomdragonz ]

[scarab]

It's now available for download at http://www.apple.com/itunes/download/

[SirCastor]

Does anyone know how to turn off the Cross fades?

thanks
-Aaron

[jamesa]

I don't know what you people are raving about. This is, at best, a 1.2 upgrade to support the iPod. All the other bits and pieces are junk tacked on.

- iTunes is still the most CPU hungry MP3 player you can get for the mac. On my G3/500, it uses from 10% to 36% of the CPU. This is absolutely unacceptable; the latest version of Audion is constantly 10%.

- The visuals are the same FPS as before. It's ridiculous that an ATI Rage 128 is getting 12 FPS!

- The cross fade is laughable. ehhe! Fatboy Slim it's not.

- EQ. Wow!

All in all, I'm pretty disappointed. Sticking with Audion - it does what I want it to do, and it doesn't suck up to a third of my processor to play songs!

-- james

[FormerLurker]

Originally posted by SirCastor:
<STRONG>Does anyone know how to turn off the Cross fades?

thanks
-Aaron</STRONG>

Go to Preferences - click Effects tab - uncheck Cross fades

[jamesa]

Originally posted by fisherKing:
<STRONG>except the crossfade & enhancement options are on by default, and make the program sound noticeably better.
</STRONG>

ooh yeah! I forgot about the "enhancement" option! it's just a junky eq option. They boost the highest and lowest frequencies. Turn it down to low, it's just boosting the low frequencies, turn it to high, it's boosting the higher frequencies.

FFS, I don't know why those audio engineers spend hundreds of hours on each CD, tweaking and tuning it all individually, when you can just come along and "enhance" the sound of every song with a checkbox.

Come on Apple!

edit: which is exactly why you'll have problems like this when listening to music through a halfway decent (or better) setup:

day 2 observation:
the default setting on the "sound enhancer" needs to be backed off from center a little.
for me (playing my pismo thru a stereo system), sound was overloaded. aargh!

it's nothing more than a shitty eq.

-- james
ps I'm not having a go at iTunes in general - I love the idea of one program dealing with all your devices, but at the moment Audion is doing mp3s better, and toast is doing CD burning better. Trying to be the jack of all trades, Apple risks being master of none. The additions of iTunes 2 are for the most part, useless, IMO. Fix the CPU drain Apple!

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: jamesa ]

[jamesa]

ok, and I think I've found the first bug. Turn crossfade off, and then click on the song progress bar right near the end of the track, say with five seconds playing left to go.

iTunes will tell you that there are 0 seconds remaining on the track for a good five seconds, but the track keeps playing. The song is obviously not finished.

Grrrr! They're making it WORSE! I think they should sack the SoundJam guys and hire the Audion guys instead!

-- james

[jamesa]

Originally posted by jog:
<STRONG>iTunes has a short silence between two tracks which SoundJam didn't have - this is really annoying when listening to live albums...</STRONG>

depending on how the record has been mixed, you can get around it. turn crossfades on, but to zero seconds.

the crowds sort of merge into eachtother, and it becomes listenable.

for dance music etc (eg ministry of sound) this doesn't work - it's obviously not zero seconds, because Apple's crossfades interfere with that of the DJs for a good six seconds or so. I know which one sounds better, too!

If you don't turn on crossfade, then yeah, you get the good old two second pause.

I'm actually really rather disappointed about this release. It's lacklustre.

-- james

[scarab]

Hm.... And I bet Audion is da best thing out there?

If iTunes takes too much of your cpu, minimize the window or hide the application altogether.

iTunes 2.0 rocks and give Apple some leeway to improve it as they deem fit. If you have some feedback search for some email address and send it there.

[jamesa]

Originally posted by scarab:
<STRONG>Hm.... And I bet Audion is da best thing out there?
</STRONG>

No, I didn't say that. But ultimately, most people will be using iTunes for mp3 playback. I can get the same songs playing through my speakers for up to 36% CPU time, or around 12%. Which would you choose?


<STRONG>

If iTunes takes too much of your cpu, minimize the window or hide the application altogether.
</STRONG>

If only it were that simple!

iTunes uses up the same ridiculous amount of CPU time, regardless.


<STRONG>

iTunes 2.0 rocks and give Apple some leeway to improve it as they deem fit. If you have some feedback search for some email address and send it there.</STRONG>

iTunes does indeed rock - but the differences between 1 and 2 are at most marginal. It is only a .1 increase, not a 1 -&gt; 2 increase. In some respects, it seems to have gone backwards.

I have already sent through feedback; it's an OS X application that Apple make, so OS X feedback page.

-- james

[ 11-03-2001: Message edited by: jamesa ]

[HoofHearted]

Originally posted by jamesa:
<STRONG>sound enhancer: it's nothing more than a shitty eq.</STRONG>

I was going to ask if it was anything more clever than a "loudness button" that just eqs the sound. For a moment I had visions of a post process filter, smoothing artifacts in a similar fashion to video codecs. Nah, what was I thinking!

Either way, it does the job for 90% of the audience - that's people listening over iMac speakers or shoddy computer speakers, just in the same way that radio stations are "compressed" to make them sound better over a cheap radio. It's an addition to itunes that benefits most of it's users.

People listening over "hi-fi" amps and speakers may sniff at the addition of a "sound enhancer", but if you're really into quality, you shouldn't settle for a compressed format anyway (even minidisc ATRAC), and definitely shouldn't use a noisy computer as a source. If you're that interested in getting the best sound quality, stick with CD or Vinyl.

MP3 is great for listening while I work, for portability and for broadening the type of music I listen to. I've got 10Gb of them and love them, but I'm into hi-fi as well, and just accept each format for what it's worth.

iTunes *is* too cpu hungry but it's a good product that hits it's non-geek audience with all the features it needs. iTunes 2 isn't a huge upgrade but apart form an alarm clock, I can't think of another feature I actually need anyway.

PS, I still use audion as well, and yes, it rocks as well, and Panic deserve every bit of support they get for their cool software.

[suprz]

will itunes 2 conflict with toast titanium? and if so what do i have to do to be able to use toast to burn cd's instead of itunes? thanks for your help

[kidtexas]

At first (and only listen) to the sound enhancer i think it also mucks about with the stereo separation. At higher levels, the stereo image is "enhanced" - I think

[godzookie2k]

Just a couple of points:

I guess I got a crappy version of Audion, cause it uses as much as 40% of my cpu (one of em )

Crossfading does not carry over to burnt CD's

The 2 second break can be changed to 1 or zero for CD playing by changing 'gap between tracks' option under burning in preferences. I don't know why there isn't an option for mp3's too.

Damn I wish I could set up individual crossfade times for each song. Some songs start up with a 'blast' which is missed with crossfading on, while others don't. A great example of an album with this is Licensed to Ill.

Damn I wish crossfading would carry over to burnt CD's I *still* have to pull all of my mix CD's into an audio editing app and cross fade em manually.

The reason iTunes, most home stereos, and decent car stereos all have EQ's is that no matter how meticulously the audio engineer mixed a CD, it sounds different on every system you play it on. You adjust an EQ until it sounds 'right'. Which also leads to my next point which is:

Another reason iTunes, most home stereos, and decent car stereos all have EQ's is that everyone likes to listen to music differently. Some like big bass, some don't. Some like high treble, some don't. etc. etc.


Nick