[phobos]

The (school) project is about the font helvetica. The idea behing it is that I analysed the word to hell+vet+ica. ICA is a state insurance in greece.If you are sick you go to the ica doctors where you don't have to pay as much as doctors that aren't on the ica.The problems on ICA are huge that's why ICA and hell are joined with the blue line.
The second image works as a cover for the first image.It's the informative side.Info about the creator the basic characteristics of the helvetica font and where it is used.
Waiting for your opinions.

[ 02-07-2002: Message edited by: phobos ]

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: phobos ]

[rjenkinson]

it looks like you're trying to make your point with quantity rather than quality. the graphics are good, but is every image necessary? how "strong" is the design?

-r.

[phobos]

Can you explain me a little more the "how "strong" is the design?" ?
Sorry but I can't understand.You know by now about my english
The inside (the top image) doesn't have to talk about helvetica.So that's what I did.The outside the bottom image talks about helvetica .
The outside works in a calm way and the inside is like all the hell breaks loose.
I don't know if I answered your question.Please be more specific

[andi*pandi]

How big is this poster real-size?
Please post a smaller version for the forums, I'm having a hard time seeing the whole thing even on a 22" monitor. Can't judge design if I have to scroll.

I don't mind the hectic backgrounds, they're cool, but you need to have your important things stand out more. HIERARCHY. I.E., the title needs to be bigger or stand out from the "texture" text, and the paragraph at the bottom with the statement needs to be set off in a way that draws people's eyes.

You need to guide people to tell the difference between what needs to be "read" and what is "texture" or background.

An interesting experiment for you, might be to take out the graphics, and design the poster first using just text. (that's the way we used to do it way back when.) That way, your eyes won't be distracted by the candy and can judge hierarchy and placement more easily. Then, gradually add in the colors/effects around that. A good design won't be broken by images underneath.

Don't rely on computer images so much!

[rjenkinson]

Originally posted by phobos:
<STRONG>Can you explain me a little more the "how "strong" is the design?" ?</STRONG>

well, basically do you need all those fancy graphics? they are nice, but do they really get your idea across or do they just illustrate "coolness"? if you are able to remove an image from the graphics without losing anything substantial, then try to do so. do more with less.

also, if you going to play with the word helvetica and apply it to that state insurance company, you might want to play up the medical imagery and lose some of the typographical stuff... right now it looks more like an ad for the typeface than it does for an insurance company.

-r.

if you want any kind of helpful commentary, shrink it.

[godzookie2k]

Hellooooooooo noise.

Ok this might get a little hap hazard, so pardon me in advance. If the inside DOESN'T have to be about helvetica then make it about *something*. Don't just make it a collection of 'cool' imagery and random type.

You spoke of inside and outside, so I *assume* this is a trifold or something considering it's bloody huge size, so if thats the case then on the inside you have to consider breaking the lines of the type so they don't cross over the folds.

Speaking of type, I think this is probably one of the biggest problems with this poster/trifold thing. Kind of ironic since its a poster/trifold/thing about a typeface. The line of type on the 'outside' (? the part actually about the type). There is a line of type that is insanely small that is running right along the middle of the piece, dividing the top from the bottom. Its WAY too long, and its WAY to hard to read. If the the *point* is to make it unreadable then bloody well make it unreadable, don't go half assed unreadable on me. The paragraphs of text below that are also like what? 5 point helvetica bold? Size too small, line length WAY too long.

Color choices remind me of a bad acid trip or two back in college. I can deal with the blue, I can deal with the green. Throwing in the red, ok you got that rgb thing going on, I can tolerate that, but what on God's green earth possesed you to combine all of those colors with checkered white, colorized stone like texture, and that god awful sickly mustard yellow color?!?! Simplfy your color choices or give a good concept supporting them.

Helvetica is a *very* plain, *very* informational font, and though I like the way you broke apart the word to create the imagery, the imagery (to me) just doesn't support it. I didn't think hell until you mentioned it, and though my yankee ass probably isn't your target audience, I didn't know what the hell to make of the piece until you explained it. This may work ok when you are busting out a conceptual painting but it doesn't work for the world of pro graphic design. The message must be clear, remember? I couldn't see the dogs/vet imagery until at least the second or third stare down at the piece and thats 2 stare downs too many for a poster/trifold/thingie.

It seems like you are attempting a weird amalgamation between carson-esque type/grid deconstruction and that weird web designer 3-D photoshopy stuff style. But, no offense, it feels like you took the worst parts of each and combined them. Type deconstruction takes alot more work than it looks. Alot of designers who do attempt the look, forget to realize that while the type and the grid are 'deconstructed' there is still an order and a fine...VERY fine line of readability to play. Often, designers who are inexperienced with type deconstruction concentrate on overlapping their type and unreadability and forget to concentrate on playing that fine line of readability. Look at Monseur Type-Cut-n-Paste David Carson. Even at his most ripped apart cut and pastey peaks, his work is still readable, you just have to work at it for a second, but he gets away with making the reader look at it longer than usual, *because* the layout is engaging and compositionally interesting. Second of all even with deconstructed and broken type the "Elements of Typographical Style" (must own book) are still in place in one way or another, lines are not too long, and words/content that *isn't* supposed to be read is most definately impossible to read, not a half-assed way point.

Whew, gonna wrap this up now. I'm going to skip going off on a rant about the 3d-photoshopped type, cause then I get too riled, BUT. I'd concentrate on emphasizing the fact that you have broken up the WORD helvetica and make sure your reader doesn't confuse your piece to be ABOUT helvetica because at this point it isn't, its about the word, not the font. Second of all either organize your color scheme and balance some of the chaos with some order, or drop out some of the colors (or amount of white patches). Make the paragraphs/content that you want readable and the content/paragraphs you want unreadable, unreadable. Make sure, even though the imagery may be masked, don't make it unreadable if it is essential in delivering the concepts (way too overlayed/hidden line art of dogs).

Oh, and on a personal note, the faux colorized stone texture feels a little borderline cheesy.

Nick
(sorry about the length, hope it helps, didn't mean to rip your work too threads too much. )

[godzookie2k]

Oh, another personal note. Large outlined type is bad, small outlined type is of the devil. (personally)

Nick

[phobos]

Godzookie I must say that I loved your answer. You made me laugh bigtime.I think you are quite pissed about my work
The unreadable text you say about is because the pics aren't the original size.The original size 45X7.5 inches.So it's quite large and quite readable.When you see it in original size you won't have any problems about reading it.And it folds 5 or 6 times I can't remember right now.
For everything else I can't say anything because this is your opinion and I bet I can't change your mind!!
You said something about the 3d photoshop thing.Please analyse it.
I had 3 opinions and everybody said it sucks.WOOOW!!! (there is no problem about the negative criticism.Really.Just analysing the data in to my mind.Keep them coming!!)
I'm gonna post a smaller version for others to see.(But I really don't think it would help that much because you can't see anything.)

[phobos]

The bigger versions http://users.otenet.gr/~jim08088/helveticasmall.jpg

http://users.otenet.gr/~jim08088/helvetica2small.jpg

Please go to my site and look some other
typography http://users.otenet.gr/~jim08088/2d.html
and from the first row choose the last one (the fourth.)
You should see 6 invitations about Sonic Youth.I would like to hear your opinions about those also

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: phobos ]

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: phobos ]

[godzookie2k]

Pissed? no not at all....well, maybe the photoshopped type gets my goat but that is just cause I'm weird like that. For future reference on these 'crit' things you really should post original sizes, purpose, concept, target audience, etc information, just helps in the analysis. IF this thing is a whopping 45 inches (greeks use inches?!) wide, then those lines of type are still *way* too long. And *if* it folds 6 times, that means that those type lines are getting broken up by the folds, which is also a Bad Thing™. On a multifold piece, I try to consider each fold as a page and design accordingly. I sometimes incorporate elements that cross all the way through, but *never* bodies of informational type.

As for photoshoppy 3d type stuff, its a personal gripe against that aesthetic. I'm kind of a firm believer in not deflowering the beautifully designed typefaces I so humbly use. I'll run hand made type through the pshop mill, and if I am trying to create an effect (like a burn, or a blur) of the type I'll pop it into pshop. But arbitrarily overlaying with a burn layer distortion ten thousand semi opaque words in conjunction with a seemingly random spattering of strangely colored polygons overlayed ontop of each other with a burn layer distortion all combined with some weird 3d rendered circle thingies just is not something I find visually appealing. Chaos without some kind of order within it is about as effective a communications device as a flyer for the company deep fried turkey dinner designed in MS paint by the bosses daughter after a month long bender.

Just my opinion I'm probably wrong.

Nick


P.S. Could you change your post up top's images to the smaller versions with links to the larger versions? Its doing a peach screw on the tables.

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: godzookie2k ]

[phobos]

Yes yes here in Greece we use cm.So it's 1.10m X19cm long.
The thing that I don't know is if you undestanded that it's a concept (on the inside (the top image)) that doesn't need to involve helvetica.
Just from curiosity what would be your approach if you had to do the
hell+vet+ica thing ?

In some of these days I'll post a new image which is about the motorola 191 model.It's an ad for a magazine.The project is given to our school from motorola and whoever wins his ad will be published and he'll get some money too!!!! YESSS
From the way it's evolving right now I bet that you will hate it big time godzookie. (Your name always reminds bouzouki.(a greek instrument
))
You'll see it in a few days.

[godzookie2k]

I think I wouldn't have done something so bland as hell + vet + ica but I would have emphasized the fact that you are adding the three parts together, possibly even driving some more division between each idea. because I think that the concept of dividing the word into three different subjects is the the strongest part of the piece.

Yes yes here in Greece we use cm.So it's 1.10m X19cm long.

heh, that was just a little hah hah funny thingie...

Nick

[ 02-11-2002: Message edited by: ]