[mchladek]

Hey everyone! I'm just starting to get into graphic design and am wondering what software I should get. Since I'm just a beginner and don't know how much I'm really going to get into it(or even be very good at it) I don't want to spend an arm and leg for software. I've pretty much narrowed my first graphic title down to either Adobe Illustrator or Corel Draw. Does anyone have an opinion on which would be best for beginners? I want something that has an intuitive/clean interface but at the same time advanced enough so that I can do some real pro work in the future. I've heard Illustrator is faster than Draw, but that doesn't matter to much to me. So, which one should I go for? Thanks.

[godzookie2k]

Illustrator any day of the week. Draw is probably ok for a beginner (don't use it) but if you do decide to continue, any design studio/job will require you knowing Illustrator *anyway* so you might as well buy the best.


Nick

edit: actually, your *real* debate should be Freehand vs Illustrator, as both are the only vector drawing tools you should even consider, and if thats the case its a case of preference, I've gotten in many a long-winded heated discussion on Illustrator vs. Freehand. Why don't you download the demos and experiment with them before you plunk down the 400 bucks?

[ 11-29-2001: Message edited by: godzookie2k ]

[MikeM32]

I'd also go with Illustrator or even Freehand. There's not many professionals that actually use Corel Draw. Illustrator isn't one of the most expensive app's either so you won't need to go broke over it. You can do page layout and vector graphics with it too.

Once you get into other stuff like real page layout app's and imaging app's then you'll be shelling out more $$$. QuarkXPress is like $700 and Photoshop is like $600.

Before you spend I'd suggest seeing if there's a free demo. Especially if your'e not even sure if graphic design is in your future career-wise. Currently you can demo Illustrator 9 for 30 days. The interface probably isn't too far behind Illustrator 10 (the latest version for OSX). Full version of Illustrator 10 is like $400.00 which is actually cheaper than the other industry standard app's (believe it or not).

Adobe also offers software bundles that may save some money.

Illustrator 9 - 30 day demo

That'll take you right to the Illustrator 9 demo registration page. There may be some limitations as to what the demo can do (there usually are with demo-ware). There's other free demos from Adobe as-well.

Graphics software can be pretty pricey so I wouldn't jump into spending anything unless your'e real sure about it.

One thing I like to suggest to people wishing to get into computer graphics is drawing or painting on paper or canvas. Have you done any non-computer related artwork? Chances are good that if you're somewhat adept with using real media that you'll be good with computer graphics. I've been an artist since I was like 12 years old and I didn't even get into computers or computer graphics until like 5 years ago.

Try the demo first and have fun with it.

Good luck

Mike

[godzookie2k]

One thing I like to suggest to people wishing to get into computer graphics is drawing or painting on paper or canvas. Have you done any non-computer related artwork? Chances are good that if you're somewhat adept with using real media that you'll be good with computer graphics. I've been an artist since I was like 12 years old and I didn't even get into computers or computer graphics until like 5 years ago.

YES.

(that would mean, i agree completely utterly, and somethingelse-ly)


Nick

[andi*pandi]

i second the illustrator vs freehand debate. draw isn't in the picture. If you are looking for something cheap and powerful, i hear canvas is nifty, but not universally accepted. (save as eps will get you there though.)

and also I'm wondering if an illustration program should be your first app. If you want graphic design, you will need quark or pagemaker. No full designs are done in Illustrator, especially anything more than a page. (freehand at least has multiple pages!)

So it would be difficult to do a book project in Illustrator, or brochure, or whatnot.

If I had to choose which 2 apps to get, it would be quark and photoshop, since photoshop can do some vectors.

[jholmes]

The other aspect is that many service bureaus and printers HATE Corel. Even if you could do better stuff in Corel than Illustrator you still would have a hassle getting it output.

Personally, if I were just starting out in the field I'd go Illustrator just because it integrates so well with Photoshop - similar color palettes, key commands, look and feel.

That said if you're headed for a web based career Freehand does the same thing with Flash and Dreamweaver

In short -
Going mainly print - Illustrator,
mainly web - learn Freehand
Doing both - I'd learn Illustrator as it is easier to go from print work and resolutions into web stuff.

[mchladek]

Thanks for all the help. Long story short, I went with Illustrator.

::The Proceeding is mindless rambling and the LONGGGG Story::
First off I want to agree with the fact that one should work w/ pencil, paint, paper, and canvas before moving into computer graphics. I used to really love drawing and art in general when I was younger but as time went on I found less and less time to do art and when on to different things. Now, a freshman in college I've started drawing and doing rough sketches again. I probably should work with some more media than just pencil/paper but I'm sorta anxious to get into computer design.

Anyway, to why I chose Illustrator. As suggested by a few posts here I pretty much discarded Draw as possibility. I had previously ruled out Freehand because I have done a little bit of messing around with Fireworks & Dreamweaver but didn't like either one very much. There were a lot of limitations that I don't believe should have been there for what they were designed to do. But that was about a year or so ago so I decided to give 'em another try. I downloaded the Freehand trial and got a feel for the program. The interface was a lot more intuitive than Fireworks or Dreamweaver(IMHO), but it was highly unstable and some of the basic tools were tricky and not very nice. Such as the fact that when I scrolled the page outline, let alone any of the graphics, were redrawn while scrolling.

So then I downloaded the Canvas 8 trial version. I really LOVED the interface. It was extremely straight forward and user-friendly. Everything was great about it except for the fact it was really, really slow and unresponsive. Just using the pencil was jerky. If I moved the cursor an inch or two it took Canvas 3-4 sec. for it to draw the line often resulting in a straight line when I wanted a curved line.

I was going to try Illustrator 9 but I could never get it installed properly so I gave up. However, my school's computers have Photoshop on them and I've used that a few times just touching up some pics and really liked the interface. That combined with the high approval rating of Adobe products, Illustrator being described as very fast and smooth, and that fact that it's the industry standard I finally decided to take the plunge.

Let me tell you, I love being a college student. Only $99 for Illustrator--that's awesome. So I've had it for less than a day now, am about a third the way through the manual and really enjoying it.

If anyone is still reading this ungodly long post, could you please direct me to some could online tutorials to master the basics and start doing some advanced stuff as well. Thanks a lot for all the help.

[godzookie2k]

Adobe.com has a wealth of information and is often overlooked.

Note: concepts from photoshop, illustrator, and indesign all cross over with each other now, with transparancy effects available to layers across the board, similar filters, etc. You might want to do some reading up on all3 for some design conepts/basics and new directions to push each application.

Nick

[MikeM32]

Now, a freshman in college I've started drawing and doing rough sketches again. I probably should work with some more media than just pencil/paper but I'm sorta anxious to get into computer design.

Well it's definitely good that you've had some real media experience. I'd say the minimum is just being able to draw with pencil or pen much the way you have in the past. You don't have to go nuts honing your skills off the computer with painting and so on, but it doesn't hurt to have some basic color experience either. The experience is a bit different anyway. But you'll find you'll have a "leg-up" on many Computer Graphics types. Sadly enough from my experiences there's many people in this field that can't even draw at all and even act like it's just a job. As-if there's no real desire to be creative.

Let me tell you, I love being a college student. Only $99 for Illustrator--that's awesome. So I've had it for less than a day now, am about a third the way through the manual and really enjoying it.

$99.00 ?!? Wow that's a humongous discount. What version did you get? The full version of Illustrator 10 (the newest one out there) lists at around $400.00. I know that Adobe has certain applications in "LE" (Limited Edition) format, but I don't think Illustrator is one of them. The LE versions are what alot of colleges sell to students.

Anyway that's a really great deal even if it's for a previous version (say Illustrator 8 or 9) because you can always upgrade later-on.

Without going overboard, you might look into some tutorial books which usually have accompanying CD's. Adobe has a pretty good series called "Classroom in a Book" which has several sample projects you can put together from the tutorial CD. There's some others out there as-well. These let you really work with the application while teaching you many of the tools and so on.

Anyway have fun with it and let's see some of your stuff soon

Mike

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]

[ 12-07-2001: Message edited by: MikeM32 ]

I believe that it is a full version. Check out this web site <http://www.gotrc.com/specialpage.htm>. They do offer some great discounts for students and schools (you need to prove your student status in order to purchase from them). Their prices are often better than the prices in my university bookstore. I recently ordered Adobe Web collection 3.0 at the price of $268, with Photosphop 6.0, Illustrator 9.0, Golive and livemotion. Right now, I am trying to get a free upgrade for Illustrator 10.0 from Adobe. You can do the same if you made your illustrator 9.0 purchase between Sept. 24 through Dec. 5, 2001. BTW, I am a graduate student.

[mchladek]

Yeah, I couldn't believe it was only $99, full version too. The only difference is that it says "Education Version" on it. That would be really awesome if Photoshop 6 costs that much when it comes out.

If been learning a lot just going through the manual and messing around with it. I haven't gotten any tutorial books yet since all of them are still for Version 9; I'm sure they would be helpful but I think I'll wait til the Ver. 10's come out.

I've now made two pics and am working on a third. One thing I have a question about is saving them as jpeg, gif, etc. If you take a look at my work (My Illustrator Pics) there is a large amount of white space around them. It's not really a problem with the penguin or e, but I don't want that white space around my sig. I resized all the images so the take up the entire artboard but there's still that white space. I've tried clipping them(don't know if I was doing it right or if this method even works?) but with no effect. Does anyone know how to get rid of that?

Thanks again.

Michael

[andi*pandi]

Such as the fact that when I scrolled the page outline, let alone any of the graphics, were redrawn while scrolling.

If I recall correctly, there was a key or a preference to set for Freehand screen redraw, that would hold off on the redraw until you said go or let go of the keys. I rarely scrolled anyway, use spacebar for the hand and move around. Now, I'm stuck using Illustrator at work, but I'll live.

as far as white backgrounds... you can adjust your page setup size to be small as desired. Also not sure what support AI has for transparency Gifs, as I use photoshop for that... JPGs can't be transparent at this point, I think they're working on that...

$99... what a discount... envious!