[Amorya]

I'm in the UK, and I go to university in about 18 months. I have to choose what course to go on. I was looking at just Graphic Design, but hardly anywhere offers it, and it seems to need me to have done Art A level (closest I have is Design and Technology), or have a portfolio of work (I don't, really). Is this the best choice?

If so, what sort of things would they want in a portfolio? If not, what course would be best?

I want to work in the Graphic Design field, possibly magazine or advertising design, and I'm really not sure what to take.

Amorya

[ 03-11-2002: Message edited by: Amorya ]

[godzookie2k]

To learn design in an art school (all the cool designers do ) you need to put together a portfolio of work for admission to art school. Problem is, art school admissions councellers don't want to see design work, or at least ALOT, of design work in an incoming freshman's portfolio. SO it means you have to go old school and learn how to....GASP AND GADZOOKS learn how to draw/paint/sculpt/other well enough to get together a portfolio to get into school. Now, to some this might seem stupid. "Why the hell should I learn have to draw and paint to be a d3zinR?" you might ask. Well, drawing and painting and or sculpting all teach you things that you will need to be a designer later...little things like color theory, conceptualization, composition, etc etc etc. SO. what I'm saying is learn an artform and put together a portfolio, (10-20 pieces) take slides of them and ship em off to your art school of choice (Royal college of art has a good design program). do mostly traditional artwork, at most have 1 (maaaybe 2 but...) 'design' piece and/or at most 1 (maaaybe 2 but...) computer effects/photoshop piece. but the rest must and should be your best drawings/paintings/sculptures/performance art/prints/ etc. Good luck.

[godzookie2k]

In a slightly less pompous tone, I'd recommend that you spend (if you are serious about becoming a designer) all the time you've got between now and december (iirc this is when college applications are due) learning fine arts, and taking all the damn fine arts classes you can afford (both in school and extracurriculor) and becoming best buddies with your schools art teacher (he/she/it can give you suggestions of schools). Art school admissions councillers are well trained in being able to spot talent, even if the skills arent there yet. If you have it, they'll see it. Hit up local art school portfolio days as often as possible. And if worse comes to worse and you get rejected by the art schools, make sure you have a back up liberal arts school where you can piss away your first year doing all of the above and keep repeating until you *do* get in.

[Amorya]

If I decide definitely to go for graphic design (I'm also considering computer science or psychology), then I can take Art AS level next year, which gives about 3-5 pieces of work at the end of the year, I think. Most of my previous work has been either computer-generated, or related to product design (eg styrofoam models, CAD/CAM work, etc), an area I'm not really interested in any more.

Do you know the names of any reputable art schools in the UK, so that I can enquire for more details?

Amorya

[mitchell_pgh]

get an engineering degree, then go to design school... Then you will get to work on all the cool stuff...

[scuppernong]

Amorya, If you are seriously considering becoming a Graphic Designer, then I would contact your school of choice and ASK them what they would like to see in an entry-level portfolio. For the most part, they are not looking for masterfully created design pieces or painting masterpieces... they are looking for POTENTIAL as an art student.

I'm sure that they will be more than happy to help you.

[MacRufus]

Originally posted by Amorya:
[QB]I'm in the UK, and I go to university in about 18 months. I have to choose what course to go on. I was looking at just Graphic Design, but hardly anywhere offers it, and it seems to need me to have done Art A level (closest I have is Design and Technology), or have a portfolio of work (I don't, really). Is this the best choice?

You know, I don't want to piss in your breakfast cereal here. But I have worked in the advertising and design field for nearly 20 years, including owning a small agency before selling out to the partner. In all that time - nobody has EVER been hired based of what school they went to. In this day and age, agencies want designers with experience, not a diploma or degree. Magazines, newspapers and design studios want fast and knowledgeable designers. And I mean VERY fast and VERY knowledgeable. The ones who aren't are doomed to be production artists making $10-$15 per hour changing commas, hyphens and expiration dates in newspaper ads.

I'm not saying you shouldn't go to school. But don't waste your money going to the "Best" school you can afford to go to. Go to a decent design school, buy a Mac & all the latest software. Learn the apps backwards & forwards. Pick an ad out of a magazine and see how many ways you can redesign it while keeping the same message. Get an internship at an agency, magazine, newspaper or pre-press service bureau (you will learn alot about software and how to get what you want out of them working in pre-press).

These are things that will get you hired at an agency. Of course, having real talent helps too!

[ 03-16-2002: Message edited by: MacRufus ]

[Jerome]

What you want is experience. I studied 6 years in Graphic Design in the best schools in Quebec, and frankly, I could have learned faster by starting to work after 3 years. Nobody ever even asked if I had a diploma when doing interviews for jobs. They look at what you can do and your personnality...

[msc1974]

I'm also from the UK and here is what u should do....
For a start....Blackpool or Blackburn colleges both do Graphic design, they are both very good, if not the best in the country. I went to Blackburn, but I have friends that went to Blackpool. (I'd say Blackpool is better). I've worked all over the world with a 8 of the top 10 agencies...so it hasn't done me any harm.
Depending what GCSE's you have, depends on if you can get onto the course you want.
The thing is, you need experience...but to get experience you need qualifications....qualifications don't mean **** when you go for a job with a Ad agency, design agency, publishing house... all they want to see is a book full of great looking work.....and experience. YOU NEED A LUCKY BREAK FROM A COMPANY.

[jholmes]

I agree - call the schools you are interested in and ask what they will want to see in your book. Most everybody I've met in the field wants to help young people get into it just as they were tutored in themselves so they won't ususally bite your head off when you ask for info or help.

Once you get in, nab every professional internship you can get so you get some real world experience and some actual work that can go in your portfolio once you leave the university. (But stay there as long as you can - life, budgets and deadlines suck in the real world)

Study typography, color theory, photography, fine art and how to communicate professionally with others. Remember that the computer is ONLY A TOOL for doing design - knowing Quark and Photoshop doesn't make you a designer. Seeing the asthetics in form, shape, color and being able to put it down on paper or on screen makes you a designer.

Being able to sell it to your boss and the client makes you rich.

[godzookie2k]

Originally posted by MacRufus:
<STRONG>

You know, I don't want to piss in your breakfast cereal here. But I have worked in the advertising and design field for nearly 20 years, including owning a small agency before selling out to the partner. In all that time - nobody has EVER been hired based of what school they went to. In this day and age, agencies want designers with experience, not a diploma or degree.
</STRONG>

True, its all about the portfolio and experiencer rather than the school. However, schools with good design departments have good designers teaching, good designers also have good contacts, said good design teachers can put you in touch with said good contacts. A minor upshot but an upshot nonetheless.

I've seen students' work who have graduated from liberal arts schools vs those who have graduated from art schools and there is a marked difference in the quality of work. Work that comes out of liberal arts schools (and this isn't all work, but a significant majority) almost always, while technically proficient, lacks a certain punch that the art school students' work has. Raw talent can create a good portfolio, but good instruction *is* good instruction, and the really good instructors teach at the really good schools.

[pcp_ip]

You know, I don't want to piss in your breakfast cereal here. But I have worked in the advertising and design field for nearly 20 years, including owning a small agency before selling out to the partner. In all that time - nobody has EVER been hired based of what school they went to. In this day and age, agencies want designers with experience, not a diploma or degree.

I used to get hundreds of portfolios from soon-to-be or recent grads. the was no possible time to look through them all- and 99.9% were crap. I got to the point where unsolicited portfolios would only be looked at if they were from the best schools. It's sad, and I'm sure A LOT of good designers got passed by- but very few big agencies have the time to weed through the heaps of books. I know the agencies I've worked at we had creative office managers that pre-screened the prospective portfolios for us. I can guarantee they were mailing back all the books from no name schools and "learn-to-draw-matchbook programs".

Even if you're good- and you went to a great school- you really have to do something outstanding to stand out if you want get your book viewed in a big agency.

[RGB]

I'm a 17yr old beginning the college search process here in the states, and before I look into graphic design programs, I'm curious as to if there's good money to be made in the field. I do web design work now, and have built a decent portfolio in the last year and a half or so. But is it worth it to pursue that career?

[pcp_ip]

I'm curious as to if there's good money to be made in the field

When I went to school I focused on com-design and ad-design. It's been a very rewarding choice (mentally and fiscally).

As with just about anything- if you love what you do, you're good at it, and you're passionate about it, I think you'll find that you'll probably do really well.

[art_director]

design / advertising agencies look for three things when they hire:

1. your book.
2. your book.
3. your book.

how you get a good book is up to you. many schools, liberal arts or art schools, have instructors and programs that will help you achieve your goal. many of them are clueless. some people build a book on their own.

the BEST way to determine which school(s) is for you is by doing informational interviews with the agencies / design firms you admire. to find those places you should study the award show books (communications arts, d&ad, one show, european design awards, print, graphis, new york art directors, etc.) pick the people who do the work you aspire to and simply call them for a chat. you'll find that most are very friendly and willing to help.

an earlier post from a new yorker suggested that the name of the school on your resumé will be used to weed out bad applicants. that is true in new york but only because they are inundated with student portfolios. ifu have no intention of working in new york don't worry about new york rules. in new york the game is different than any other place on the planet.

another person mentioned that some design students end up on the bottom of the food chain (production artists). a fate that can easily be avoided by composing a smart, clean portfolio.

then there was the comment about computers and applications being "design tools". TAKE THAT ADVICE SERIOUSLY. i've had many students come to me looking for jobs. in my experience the applicants who lead with their computer knowledge are technically saavy but cannot design to save their lives. they are the people who get the production jobs. focus on design. think of a computer as a marker -- you may know how to use that marker but that doesn't mean you can draw. get it? also, back to new york for a moment, in large agencies (ddb, o&m, jwt, bbdo, messner, etc.) often times you have people doing your computer layout work for you.

finally, be careful. in the u.s. the advertising business is in the biggest slump in it's history. jobs are difficult to come by and salaries are down. cleints are pulling budgets and layoffs are everywhere. make sure you know what you're getting yourself into...

good luck.

[godzookie2k]

Originally posted by RGB:
<STRONG>I'm a 17yr old beginning the college search process here in the states, and before I look into graphic design programs, I'm curious as to if there's good money to be made in the field.</STRONG>

All by graduated buddies who went illustration and are now doing sales or something unrelated, always are asking me to "teach them that design **** so they can make money". I always tell em, don't do it for the money. Do it cause you genuinely love it. If you don't love it you will just rehash 'work you liked' in fifty different ways. If you don't love it, the late-night-till-one-in-the-morning press checks won't seem like a case of perfecting your piece but a case of "oh my fuxing god i hate this place i want to go home" and you won't do a good job. When you love it you'll be at a bar after work and realize that you are commenting on the kerning in the killians logo. You have to eat breath and sleep design and if you don't have anything more than a fiscal interest, don't waste your time.

If you don't love it, you'll still make great money...being art director for some churches newsletter or something.

&lt;/rantandraveforthemorning&gt;

[art_director]

you hit the nail on the head.

[RGB]

I do love it. I'm constantly up late doing work and I love every minute of it. But I also happen to love having money around, and would like to live a nice lifestyle when I'm older. I don't need to be rich beyond belief, but to make a good living. Is graphic design or advertising going to he a good way to get there?

[art_director]

Originally posted by RGB:
<STRONG>I do love it. I'm constantly up late doing work and I love every minute of it. But I also happen to love having money around, and would like to live a nice lifestyle when I'm older. I don't need to be rich beyond belief, but to make a good living. Is graphic design or advertising going to he a good way to get there?</STRONG>

it can be if you play your cards well. the more you move around (agency to agency) the more you make. move too often and you'll be perceived as a flake. there's a balance to be found.

[RGB]

So its kinda a crapshoot, eh? I don't even know if I'd be good enough to make it. I occasionally lose motivation for work and can't come up with anything that looks good....what do you guys do to get over that?

[godzookie2k]

Originally posted by RGB:
<STRONG>So its kinda a crapshoot, eh? I don't even know if I'd be good enough to make it. I occasionally lose motivation for work and can't come up with anything that looks good....what do you guys do to get over that?</STRONG>

You are also talking about entering the industry 4 years from now, add another 2 years or piddling around getting experience, only God™ knows where the industry will be then.

As for motivation, I always found going outside and getting away from it for a while helps. A shorter solution is to go and drink a coke. (or grab a smoke)

[art_director]

i agree with godzookie2k -- don't worry about all that. you have a lot to learn. one thing you'll discover is the best way for you to solve design / marketing. we all have our own tricks for concepting. godzookie2k mentioned stepping out for a coke. for me it's going for a run. christ™ only knows what you'll do...

it will all become clear, young jedi. don't worry just work hard.