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Beyond Redemption · Jul 5, 2002, 11:50 AM

Naming a bill the "United States Patriot Act" is a direct attack upon this nation and everything it stands for. Imagine the attack ads that would be run against any member of congress up for reelection had that person voted against it. The American public as a whole is stupid and is easily influenced by ridiculous thirty second spots. When deciding to vote on this bill, members of congress had to decide between voting their mind and career suicide. We all know how that vote turned out.

Those who gave the name to the bill are enemies of the people, the state, and democracy.

hushmail · Jul 5, 2002, 11:54 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Beyond Redemption:
Naming a bill the "United States Patriot Act" is a direct attack upon this nation and everything it stands for. Imagine the attack ads that would be run against any member of congress up for reelection had that person voted against it. The American public as a whole is stupid and is easily influenced by ridiculous thirty second spots. When deciding to vote on this bill, members of congress had to decide between voting their mind and career suicide. We all know how that vote turned out.

Those who gave the name to the bill are enemies of the people, the state, and democracy.<hr /></blockquote>Yep, who would be stupid enough to vote against a bill called the Patriot act. Those who did can't possibly be patriots.

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act

Beyond Redemption · Jul 5, 2002, 11:57 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by hushmail:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Beyond Redemption:
Naming a bill the "United States Patriot Act" is a direct attack upon this nation and everything it stands for. Imagine the attack ads that would be run against any member of congress up for reelection had that person voted against it. The American public as a whole is stupid and is easily influenced by ridiculous thirty second spots. When deciding to vote on this bill, members of congress had to decide between voting their mind and career suicide. We all know how that vote turned out.

Those who gave the name to the bill are enemies of the people, the state, and democracy.<hr /></blockquote>Yep, who would be stupid enough to vote against a bill called the Patriot act. Those who did can't possibly be patriots.

Uniting and Strengthening America by Providing Appropriate Tools Required to Intercept and Obstruct Terrorism Act<hr /></blockquote>This is Domestic Terrorism against members of congress preventing them from doing their duty.

SimeyTheLimey · Jul 5, 2002, 11:59 AM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Beyond Redemption:
Naming a bill the "United States Patriot Act" is a direct attack upon this nation and everything it stands for. Imagine the attack ads that would be run against any member of congress up for reelection had that person voted against it. The American public as a whole is stupid and is easily influenced by ridiculous thirty second spots. When deciding to vote on this bill, members of congress had to decide between voting their mind and career suicide. We all know how that vote turned out.

Those who gave the name to the bill are enemies of the people, the state, and democracy.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I don't know about treason, but it certainly is demagoguery.

It's not new, though. I just mentioned a couple of acts in another thread. One was called the Gun Free Schools Act and the other was the Violence Against Women Act. Both were later declared unconstitutional but can you imagine voting against them? How would somebody like to be protrayed as being in favor of guns in schools or for violence against women?

Personally, I just wish our Congress would grow up and give bills sensible, neutral, names.

Beyond Redemption · Jul 5, 2002, 12:06 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by Beyond Redemption:
Naming a bill the "United States Patriot Act" is a direct attack upon this nation and everything it stands for. Imagine the attack ads that would be run against any member of congress up for reelection had that person voted against it. The American public as a whole is stupid and is easily influenced by ridiculous thirty second spots. When deciding to vote on this bill, members of congress had to decide between voting their mind and career suicide. We all know how that vote turned out.

Those who gave the name to the bill are enemies of the people, the state, and democracy.<hr /></blockquote>Well, I don't know about treason, but it certainly is demagoguery.

It's not new, though. I just mentioned a couple of acts in another thread. One was called the Gun Free Schools Act and the other was the Violence Against Women Act. Both were later declared unconstitutional but can you imagine voting against them? How would somebody like to be protrayed as being in favor of guns in schools or for violence against women?

Personally, I just wish our Congress would grow up and give bills sensible, neutral, names.<hr /></blockquote>It's treason because it deliberately undermines our entire system. There has got to be some obscure law that can be used to nail the bastards that do this.

SimeyTheLimey · Jul 5, 2002, 12:11 PM

Originally posted by Beyond Redemption: <blockquote>quote:<hr />It's treason because it deliberately undermines our entire system. There has got to be some obscure law that can be used to nail the bastards that do this.<hr /></blockquote>Oh, lord. Don't make me whip out the definition of treason. U.S. Constitution, Article III, Sec. 3. Go look it up.

[ 07-05-2002, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: SimeyTheLimey ]

Beyond Redemption · Jul 5, 2002, 12:19 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Originally posted by Beyond Redemption: <blockquote>quote:<hr />It's treason because it deliberately undermines our entire system. There has got to be some obscure law that can be used to nail the bastards that do this.<hr /></blockquote>Oh, lord. Don't make me whip out the definition of treason. U.S. Constitution, Article III, Sec. 3. Go look it up.<hr /></blockquote>I'm not talking about the legal definition you jackass. Those who named that bill are simply traitors.

Anyway, it can be argued that it indeed does fit the definition of treason you so kindly decided to mention.

[ 07-05-2002, 01:26 PM: Message edited by: Beyond Redemption ]

SimeyTheLimey · Jul 5, 2002, 12:26 PM

Originally posted by Beyond Redemption:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />I'm not talking about the legal definition you jackass. Those who named that bill are simply traitors.

Anyway, it can be argued that it indeed does fit the definition of treason you so kindly decided to allude to.<hr /></blockquote>Then don't use legal terms (like traitor, treason).

I agree that demagaguery in politics is bad for democracy. But you can make that point without the loose use of language. Ironically, by using such language as "traitors" you are, after all, guilty of exactly the same kind of demagoguery you condemn. Think about it.

Beyond Redemption · Jul 5, 2002, 12:27 PM

<blockquote>quote:<hr />Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Originally posted by Beyond Redemption:
 <blockquote>quote:<hr />I'm not talking about the legal definition you jackass. Those who named that bill are simply traitors.

Anyway, it can be argued that it indeed does fit the definition of treason you so kindly decided to allude to.<hr /></blockquote>Then don't use legal terms (like traitor, treason).

I agree that demagaguery in politics is bad for democracy. But you can make that point without the loose use of language. Ironically, by using such language as "traitors" you are, after all, guilty of exactly the same kind of demagoguery you condemn. Think about it.<hr /></blockquote>They are traitors to democracy. They are enemies of the people. Those words are harsh but they are truth.

For all intents and purposes those who named that bill put a gun to the heads of every other member of congress. Vote my way or I kill your career.

Call me crazy but I'll call them traitors and their acts treason.

[ 07-05-2002, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: Beyond Redemption ]