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Why do we tolerate lying politicians?
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Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 08:39 PM
 
Seriously, why do we tolerate politicians who conceal the truth, or just plain lie out of their @ss? Why do we tolerate anyone like this? How do people who lie and pander to the rich get to be so powerful? I'll tell you why. Because we let them.

Some of us must seriously eat this horse **** that they feed us like it was a Big Mac. How else would Bush get elected over John McCain? Oh I remember, it was the 1.3 trillion dollar tax cut.

How does an administration that supported Saddam Hussein still get respect? Because Bush Jr calls him "evil", that makes up for past administrations giving him money...technology...military support etc etc? If Bush seriously wanted to get rid of all the bad guys/terrorists/military dictators around the world (which I think is a damn fine idea) why haven't they just sent Ahnold and Stallone out there to cap some fools? Okay, that was a joke, but you get the point Fuçk, I'm sure Methodman and Redman could get the job done.

I'm sick of living in this world of beaurocracy and separation over money/race/gender because our politicians are all talk and seriously have sold our @sses to the top 1% of the population. Why don't you hypnocrats™* wise up and stop voting for people who are going to destroy the world?


My new word. Use freely

* Hypnocrat:

1. A political party based on deception/propoganda
2. A person who believes everything said to them by a political party, without question.

ps. if you understand what the word means, but can come up with a better definition, by all means, let me know. I think this word can catch on
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 08:49 PM
 
Politicians get elected because they tell people what they want to hear. Honesty is, at best, a secondary consideration.
Find out just what any people will quietly submit to and you have found out the exact measure of injustice and wrong which will be imposed upon them.

-- Frederick Douglass, 1857
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 08:50 PM
 
It's all about casting - the right jawline, a good head of hair and a dimple can get you anywhere.


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Nov 2, 2002, 08:52 PM
 
Why do we tolerate you? And why do you start partisan threads under the guise of wanting to ask a question. Listen, you worry about the Canada politicians and we will deal with ours here in the US.

I won't bother asking you to wise up, instead please just shut up.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:00 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Why do we tolerate you? And why do you start partisan threads under the guise of wanting to ask a question. Listen, you worry about the Canada politicians and we will deal with ours here in the US.

I won't bother asking you to wise up, instead please just shut up.
I can't help it if you don't like me, and I can't find it in me to care. But if you want to silence me, I must have struck a chord. Read the sig.
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:04 PM
 
BTW, what difference does it make that I live in Canada? I get CNN too, and America's policies both internal and external have a great impact on my life.
     
Clinically Insane
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:04 PM
 
Why?

They're the only kind of politician.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:05 PM
 
Q: How can you tell which politician is lying?
A: It's the one with his mouth open.

Badda BOOM.
/mal
"I sentence you to be hanged by the neck until you cheer up."
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:10 PM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:


I can't help it if you don't like me, and I can't find it in me to care. But if you want to silence me, I must have struck a chord. Read the sig.
You start stupid threads and then get all hyper and upset when people get on your case. Are you just that dumb that you can't see why people react to you like that?

No cord touching with me, I just think you are a moron. You really have no formal or advanced education in political science and the rhetoric you spout is asinine. CNN does not count as an upperlevel course in pol theory.
Really, you protest things just out of boredom and the lack or stimulation growing up in the suburbs provided you with. Your perspective of the way things work reek of inexperience or understanding. Please just go back to school so you can join everyone else in the real world. All this yapping about how the world isn't living up to your ideals is tiresome.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:
Why?

They're the only kind of politician.
Good point. Why do we have politicians leading the Country? Who don't we have leaders leading the country?

A quick idea: The population of the Earth is rising, and it is all but impossible to have small groups of people who can lead themselves without a large beaurocratic government to take the helm and make the law/policies. But in the transition from small group leaders to beaurocratic politicians, the ideals of the small group leaders (tribe leaders, elders, what have you) get lost in the shuffle. It also prevents the possibility of a great leader emerging in a grande populace to lead the country or even the world. Could one man really rule the world with benevolence? And would we follow?
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:21 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:


You start stupid threads and then get all hyper and upset when people get on your case. Are you just that dumb that you can't see why people react to you like that?

No cord touching with me, I just think you are a moron. You really have no formal or advanced education in political science and the rhetoric you spout is asinine. CNN does not count as an upperlevel course in pol theory.
Really, you protest things just out of boredom and the lack or stimulation growing up in the suburbs provided you with. Your perspective of the way things work reek of inexperience or understanding. Please just go back to school so you can join everyone else in the real world. All this yapping about how the world isn't living up to your ideals is tiresome.
When did I get hyper and upset? Did you think my previous response to your babble came from an upset man?



Now, I really am upset. I am upset that you have made assumptions about me, and choose to try to humiliate me in a forum that I enjoy.

You see, I majored in political science for one year at university. Last year, I majored in psychology. I don't have a degree, but I do have formal, post-secondary education in political science. At the moment, I am taking a year off to earn money, and I am working. I didn't have everything handed to me, like you choose to assume. I spend time talking to lots of people about all sorts of ideas, and if I met a person like you in real life, I'd kick your @ss. I am very much a part of the real world, and I question your perspective of what the real world really is.


You seem to make up your own reality.. Like the reality you've made up about me, in your own mind:

That I'm a therapy case with ADD, who has no job and no post-secondary education. Even the fact that I got "hyper and upset" never actually happened.. You are the moron.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:22 PM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:


Good point. Why do we have politicians leading the Country? Who don't we have leaders leading the country?

A quick idea: The population of the Earth is rising, and it is all but impossible to have small groups of people who can lead themselves without a large beaurocratic government to take the helm and make the law/policies. But in the transition from small group leaders to beaurocratic politicians, the ideals of the small group leaders (tribe leaders, elders, what have you) get lost in the shuffle. It also prevents the possibility of a great leader emerging in a grande populace to lead the country or even the world. Could one man really rule the world with benevolence? And would we follow?
Yes. But that doesn't mean there'd be peace.

There will never be peace, unless we all, as one, are threatened with extinction. Even then, I doubt it.

Peace is a pipe dream.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:24 PM
 
and another thread goes spiraling out of control....
I tried to sig-spam the forums.
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:28 PM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:

I spend time talking to lots of people about all sorts of ideas, and if I met a person like you in real life, I'd kick your @ss. I am very much a part of the real world, and I question your perspective of what the real world really is.


You seem to make up your own reality.. Like the reality you've made up about me, in your own mind:

That I'm a therapy case with ADD, who has no job and no post-secondary education. Even the fact that I got "hyper and upset" never actually happened.. You are the moron.
Doubtful you could.
Never said ADD.
One year in 100 level courses is not impressive nor an education.
Everything you post is babble and finally.....
You do get upset and hyper.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:31 PM
 
Originally posted by Cipher13:


Yes. But that doesn't mean there'd be peace.

There will never be peace, unless we all, as one, are threatened with extinction. Even then, I doubt it.

Peace is a pipe dream.
Well, although I agree that conflict will never ever disappear, saying that peace is a pipe dream is kind of inaccurate. You see, war and peace are symbiotic. Like Yin and Yang, they are permanently fused together. Does this mean we have to wage war whenever we can for the benefit of the greedy and powerful? Absolutely not.

War should be the last option, after all others are explored. And peace would be prolonged if we'd develop a world system that mutually benefitted everyone. Neither of those ideals are upheld by the powerful governments of the world. Yea, I'm talking to all the Bush supporters.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:32 PM
 
Originally posted by dillerX:
and another thread goes spiraling out of control....
Look at the topic title and thread source... this never had a chance.

Barack Obama: Four more years of the Carter Presidency
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:


Doubtful you could.
Never said ADD.
One year in 100 level courses is not impressive nor an education.
Everything you post is babble and finally.....
You do get upset and hyper.
Arrogance.
Lie. (You told me to take ritalin)
Arrogance.
Arrogance and finally...
Ignorance.
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:37 PM
 
You know, Dubious, I don't expect to ever be free of your incessant taunting, ridicule, or grossly inaccurate assumptions, but I want you to know that it doesn't bother me as much as you think (or would like). I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I am strong enough to put up with you. You should know that your behaviour towards me has lost you a lot of respect on this forum.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:44 PM
 
Originally posted by L'impoTent:

You know, Dubious, I don't expect to ever be free of your incessant taunting, ridicule, or grossly inaccurate assumptions, but I want you to know that it doesn't bother me as much as you think (or would like). I don't expect everyone to agree with me, and I am strong enough to put up with you. You should know that your behaviour towards me has lost you a lot of respect on this forum.
You love it. And I didn't try to gain anyone's respect. Its an Internet forum littleman get a grip.

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Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 09:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:


You love it. And I didn't try to gain anyone's respect. Its an Internet forum littleman get a grip.
Did you just call me "L'impoTent"? Ha! Thats clever. Not as clever as "Doctor Dubious", but still very funny. Also, I didn't say you weren't gaining respect, I said you were losing it. Rapidly. Look we might as well call a truce, cos...if I can be frank...your posts are usually less intelligent, researched, and meaningful than mine. Who do you think you are? Simey? You've a long way to go. Go ahead and keep up the flaming if you want....

     
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:14 PM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
Who do you think you are? Simey? You've a long way to go. Go ahead and keep up the flaming if you want....
Hey! Leave me out of this!

Thank you.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:15 PM
 
I believe most are honest, they are doing what they think is right. Its the few that give the rest a bad name, EX Toricelli, NJ
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:22 PM
 
L'enfan, I see what you're saying even if others may think it's dumb. Even in Canada we have politicians that lie, etc. I get *more* pissed over Canadian politicians and politics than I think I'll ever get annoyed with American politics and politicians. And contrary to wha some people think, American politics are quite important on a global scale. Things that happen there can affect many people (especially us in Canada).

There really needs to be some way to deal with corrupt politicians- one's who lie or who become unpopular within either their federal or provincial ridings. Look at what Mike Harris did to Ontario, and somehow he still got elected in for a second term (even though ol' Eves is the one in control now). Look at all the small opposition parties complaining about things like Kyoto, when the majority of Canadians support it. *snrrr!* All politics are messed. I'd love for it to change and people should push for better systems, betterment of everything, but the sad truth is it's not going to happen.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:23 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:


You start stupid threads and then get all hyper and upset when people get on your case. Are you just that dumb that you can't see why people react to you like that?

No cord touching with me, I just think you are a moron. You really have no formal or advanced education in political science and the rhetoric you spout is asinine. CNN does not count as an upperlevel course in pol theory.
Really, you protest things just out of boredom and the lack or stimulation growing up in the suburbs provided you with. Your perspective of the way things work reek of inexperience or understanding. Please just go back to school so you can join everyone else in the real world. All this yapping about how the world isn't living up to your ideals is tiresome.
Of course! The old psychological attack trick.

Missed it by "" that much.
     
Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Face Ache:

Of course! The old psychological attack trick.

Missed it by "" that much.
"Being Saddam's bitch ain't that bad, sweetheart."
"*sighs*"
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Mac Elite
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:55 PM
 
Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:


Hey! Leave me out of this!

Thank you.
Believe it or not, that was actually a compliment, because you seem to know a lot about a lot.

Originally posted by Jim Paradise:

L'enfan, I see what you're saying even if others may think it's dumb. Even in Canada we have politicians that lie, etc. I get *more* pissed over Canadian politicians and politics than I think I'll ever get annoyed with American politics and politicians. And contrary to wha some people think, American politics are quite important on a global scale. Things that happen there can affect many people (especially us in Canada).

There really needs to be some way to deal with corrupt politicians- one's who lie or who become unpopular within either their federal or provincial ridings. Look at what Mike Harris did to Ontario, and somehow he still got elected in for a second term (even though ol' Eves is the one in control now). Look at all the small opposition parties complaining about things like Kyoto, when the majority of Canadians support it. *snrrr!* All politics are messed. I'd love for it to change and people should push for better systems, betterment of everything, but the sad truth is it's not going to happen.
I agree with you. But to be honest, what happens in Canada if a politician is caught in a lie or a corruption scandal? For the most part, they are fired, or they resign. Someone just recently resigned from Parliament. I forget his name. He was a liberal MP. We have a more objective media, and that serves to keep the public opinion an important factor in goverment. This is not true for the west which has a very partisan media. And America has lost all semblence of objectivism in their media. I just think it's terrible that we wouldn't, as a society, hold a higher standard to our elected representatives. And this isn't a partisan statement because Clinton told lies too, I'm sure. Even the people behind the scenes are liars. Lies are partisan. Lying is not.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 10:55 PM
 
20% blindly vote Republican. 20% blindly vote Democrat. Most of the remaining 60%
don't like either candidate and thus don't vote. Therein lies the problem, how do you get the disenchanted 60% to vote?
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Nov 2, 2002, 11:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
Why do we tolerate you? And why do you start partisan threads under the guise of wanting to ask a question. Listen, you worry about the Canada politicians and we will deal with ours here in the US.

I won't bother asking you to wise up, instead please just shut up.
I am sure Canadian politicians don't lie
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 11:14 PM
 
Originally posted by PorscheBunny:
20% blindly vote Republican. 20% blindly vote Democrat. Most of the remaining 60%
don't like either candidate and thus don't vote. Therein lies the problem, how do you get the disenchanted 60% to vote?
I think the two party system needs gotten rid of. You are right, people vote demo, or repub no matter who is running. They don't vote for the man or what he represents, but the party. That makes it easy for parties to have a crappy person representing them, and they still get votes.

I wont be surprised say, if Mondale gets elected into the senate.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 11:18 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
You really have no formal or advanced education in political science and the rhetoric you spout is asinine. CNN does not count as an upperlevel course in pol theory.
Ah, kow-towing to "experts." Just like Vietnam, right? Fortuantely, not having training in polysci is NOT a requirement for having an opinion about the world, thank God.

Great topic, BTW.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 11:20 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:

One year in 100 level courses is not impressive nor an education.
Dude, you are ****ing snob, and not a very impressive one either.

Translation: you've got nothing to brag about, so get off your high horse.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 11:38 PM
 
Originally posted by Timo:


Ah, kow-towing to "experts." Just like Vietnam, right? Fortuantely, not having training in polysci is NOT a requirement for having an opinion about the world, thank God.

Great topic, BTW.
It is Poli sci, no "y" in it.
And actually my resume is quite good for my age. Do I care if you are impressed by it, no. And my remarks were directed at someone else. If you have a problem with me its the first I hear about it. And yet I still don't care. Crazy how that works, dude.

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Nov 2, 2002, 11:44 PM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:


Well, although I agree that conflict will never ever disappear, saying that peace is a pipe dream is kind of inaccurate. You see, war and peace are symbiotic. Like Yin and Yang, they are permanently fused together. Does this mean we have to wage war whenever we can for the benefit of the greedy and powerful? Absolutely not.

War should be the last option, after all others are explored. And peace would be prolonged if we'd develop a world system that mutually benefitted everyone. Neither of those ideals are upheld by the powerful governments of the world. Yea, I'm talking to all the Bush supporters.
I wish that were so... unfortunately, I don't even see a species such as ours attaining peace. It will never happen. Our mind collective mind denies it.

Captain Obvious: Goddamn, if you were any further up yourself, you'd reach supercritical mass... get over yourself.
     
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Nov 2, 2002, 11:46 PM
 
Originally posted by Doctor Dubious:

It is Poli sci, no "y" in it. yadda yadda
He has a Ph.D. Timo, very impressive isn't it?

Too bad a nice resume doesn't make you a good person DD. You are still a heartless, egotistical, anal-retentive prick.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 12:00 AM
 
Getting back on topic, sorta.. Ciph, although I agree with you that a utopia without conflict is kind of a dream, I must reiterate my point that conflict does not mean all out war, and many conflicts I'm sure could be solved diplomatically. Through discussion. It's not very often that a conflict arises that requires the use of deadly violence to end. Gas prices are not in that list.

Conflict and peace cannot exist by themselves, but peaceful conflict is a possibility. That is where the promise lies.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 12:21 AM
 
Originally posted by PorscheBunny:
20% blindly vote Republican. 20% blindly vote Democrat. Most of the remaining 60%
don't like either candidate and thus don't vote. Therein lies the problem, how do you get the disenchanted 60% to vote?
HEAR HEAR!!! Well said. Actually, the brilliantest comment I've seen on this thread. Well done, PosrscheBunny.

That really does cut to the quick.

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Nov 3, 2002, 12:23 AM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:

It is Poli sci, no "y" in it.
l
If you have a problem with me its the first I hear about it.
It's "it's", not "its". Got many of those in your resume?

Maybe you can still get a refund on some of your courses, Captain.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 01:50 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimmerman:


HEAR HEAR!!! Well said. Actually, the brilliantest comment I've seen on this thread.
Given the contents of this thread, that ain't sayin' much.
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Nov 3, 2002, 05:10 AM
 
They lie because lying is legal.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 09:32 AM
 
I would also add: why do most people not want to manage themselves and their own lives? There's way too much delegation, at any level, in today's "democracies", IMO...

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Nov 3, 2002, 10:26 AM
 
Originally posted by The Godfather:
They lie because lying is legal.
well, that depends on what your definition of 'is' is.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 12:23 PM
 
Originally posted by fulmer:


well, that depends on what your definition of 'is' is.
No law applied for the destitution of Clinton due to lying, I must conclude that such law doesn't exist.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 02:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Captain Obvious:

And actually my resume is quite good for my age.
I have no doubt you have been earnestly chasing status badges and will continue to do so until you're lapel is full of 'em. Madison, Georgetown, I'm sure some important job contact...enjoy it.

But what your pedigree doesn't allow you to do is set yourself up as some kind of "expert" who is ready to denegrate other people's opinions based upon their supposed or inferred background. People who study political science (an odd name isn't it? There's quite an entimology to be had with the study of the words "political science" together, isn't there?) are often quick to dismiss other voices that aren't "expert." And that's a big problem: professional "experts" very often have gotten this country into serious trouble.

What we don't need is kow-towing to expert opinion. Rather, what we need is debate, which "experts" can weigh in and contribute to.
     
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Nov 3, 2002, 02:52 PM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
Seriously, why do we tolerate politicians who conceal the truth, or just plain lie out of their @ss? Why do we tolerate anyone like this? How do people who lie and pander to the rich get to be so powerful? I'll tell you why. Because we let them.
Not quite it. What happens is these nincomoops are the only ones who want to run. They are the only ones who want to carry the banner of collectivism.

Some of us must seriously eat this horse **** that they feed us like it was a Big Mac. How else would Bush get elected over John McCain? Oh I remember, it was the 1.3 trillion dollar tax cut.
It was the only compelling reason to vote for Bush.

How does an administration that supported Saddam Hussein still get respect? Because Bush Jr calls him "evil", that makes up for past administrations giving him money...technology...military support etc etc? If Bush seriously wanted to get rid of all the bad guys/terrorists/military dictators around the world (which I think is a damn fine idea) why haven't they just sent Ahnold and Stallone out there to cap some fools? Okay, that was a joke, but you get the point Fuçk, I'm sure Methodman and Redman could get the job done.
Im not so sure

I'm sick of living in this world of beaurocracy and separation over money/race/gender because our politicians are all talk and seriously have sold our @sses to the top 1% of the population. Why don't you hypnocrats™* wise up and stop voting for people who are going to destroy the world?
OK, so I agree that these politicos are hypocritical. What we need to do is make sure that, by voting for these jerks, we do not compromise our rights to life, liberty, and prosperity.

World destruction is ensured once we abdicate our individual rights and our power of reason and allow the totalitarians to take over.
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Nov 4, 2002, 09:41 AM
 
Originally posted by L'enfanTerrible:
How else would Bush get elected over John McCain? Oh I remember, it was the 1.3 trillion dollar tax cut.
Yes, possibly the tax cut had something to do with it. However, I have another take.

Bush and McCain ran against each other in the Republican primary. McCain is a RINO (Republican in Name Only), and despite the excessive drooling on him by CNN and other news networks, he didn't speak to people who are likely to vote in a Republican primary.
     
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Nov 4, 2002, 11:16 AM
 
Originally posted by PorscheBunny:
how do you get the disenchanted 60% to vote?
Add "no confidence" to the ballot.

Jim Rockford was beaten repeatedly for your entertainment.
     
   
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