[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

His love has nothing to do with anything. The Cylons believe they are His new chosen race, and it's their job to rid the world(s) of Mankind. Please go back and re-watch the mini series as well as season 1.

Thanks.

God hasn't chosen a side. This has already been pointed out many times recently. In addition, it's been pointed out that "God" was one of the twelve original gods who wanted more power for himself.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Maybe they lumped it together here. The first two episodes were two hours, the third episode today was just one hour.

Probably. The mini started out with the old guy meeting #6 at the neutral zone, and she ends up blowing the place to pieces.

[RAILhead]

GoMac, I don't know what show you're watching, but I'm glad you seem to be enjoying it.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Are you serious? Have you even watched the show? Listened to the dialogue?

1. God made Man
2. Man made Cylons
3. Cylons killed Man
4. Man dispersed to 12 colonies
5. Man became ploytheistic
6. Cylons became monotheistic
7. Cylons are God new "Man"
8. Cylons are God's tool to destroy old, bad creation (Man)

Well, the Cylons also claim `God talks to them' and they seem to have some dissent among themselves, too.

Even more importantly, the Cylons know they are not full-fledged life-forms yet (they have said so quite clearly in the The Farm of the episode after that one: one of God's commandments is to procreate – something they are clearly unable to do. Copying is not procreation, either).

You also forget that man was apparently cast out by their Gods from Kobol.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Probably. The mini started out with the old guy meeting #6 at the neutral zone, and she ends up blowing the place to pieces.

If you mean the space-embassy where the blonde human looking Cylon robot seduces the ambassador and then detonates the embassy, then yes, that was the first episode they showed here (see my critique of that episode from last week).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

GoMac, I don't know what show you're watching, but I'm glad you seem to be enjoying it.

You need to read the Battlestar Wiki.

Also, the Cylons were created after the 12 colonies were formed. Your timeline is completely wrong. Human-Cylons have only been around for the last 5 years. Cylons have only been around for 40. Humans left Kobol 1000 years ago iirc.

Edit: Here are the two running theories on the timeline:
http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sacred_Scrolls

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Now being "religious" doesn't make much sense for robots. Robots don't have their own soul. They are just programmed to behave in a certain way. So it's a "fake" religious feeling and the robots must know it. And the humans wouldn't have to fight against the robots. Just reprogram them and - boom - problem solved. You also get your slaves back as a side effect. I bet that blonde robot would sell great as house maid.

Uh

So, I think that fighting against another evil human is more interesting than fighting against simply malprogrammed robots. (But to be fair, I hated the episodes on earth in the original series. The other ones were quite fun to watch though.)

Huh? From the opening sequence: "The Cylons were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled." They're not "simply malprogrammed robots." The idea of robots that gain sentience and question their "humanity" is a pretty standard science fiction staple.

It sounds like you would fit right in on the Pegasus! (sorry, Season 2 reference).

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by goMac

God hasn't chosen a side. This has already been pointed out many times recently. In addition, it's been pointed out that "God" was one of the twelve original gods who wanted more power for himself.

When was that pointed out?

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

You also forget that man was apparently cast out by their Gods from Kobol.

Actually, this hasn't been confirmed. In the orig series, Man left Kobol due to overpopulation and pollution. They then settled on the 13 different planets.

In the current series, the most we have to go on is that there was supposedly some type of conflict and Man was told that any return would require a "price in blood." We will learn, though, that the history Man currently believes is far from the truth, and all of Mankind's survivors believe nothing but a myth. The Kobol myth is nothing but a smokescreen for hiding Man's true history.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When was that pointed out?

I'm actually looking for that right now. It was pointed out again recently when Baltar was talking to Six. Baltar was questioning gods motives because it didn't seem like he was doing a very good job of destroying the fleet. It seemed a lot of the stuff Baltar was doing as the hand of god was helping the Galactica fleet sometimes, and it seemed like some actions were hurting the Cylons greatly. Six admonished Baltar and told him that God isn't on anyones side.

I don't want to spoil anything, but a coming of series of episodes will show again that God has nothing against the humans.

Here is the quote:
"God doesn't take sides. He only wants your love. Open your heart to him and he'll show you the way." -- internal Six, The Hand of God

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by goMac

You need to read the Battlestar Wiki.

Also, the Cylons were created after the 12 colonies were formed. Your timeline is completely wrong. Human-Cylons have only been around for the last 5 years. Cylons have only been around for 40. Humans left Kobol 1000 years ago iirc.

Edit: Here are the two running theories on the timeline:
http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/Sacred_Scrolls

Yes, the Cylons were created after the colonies dispersed. Everything else I said still stands.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Yes, the Cylons were created after the colonies dispersed. Everything else I said still stands.

Huh? Your whole timeline was based on the Cylons living on Kobol.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by goMac

Huh? Your whole timeline was based on the Cylons living on Kobol.

Come on, now. I never said anything about Cylons living ANYWHERE.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

When was that pointed out?

From http://www.battlestarwiki.org/wiki/R...welve_Colonies:

In a scene cut from the episode "Kobol's Last Gleaming, Part I", Elosha states that the exodus from Kobol was precipitated when "one jealous god began to desire that he be elevated above all the other gods, and the war on Kobol began."

I don't remember anything suggesting that the Cylons' God necessarily had anything to do with the Lords of Kobol, though.

EDIT: Although I just realized that if, as according to the Colonials' philosophy of the Cycle of Time (everything repeats), the Cylons, believing that they are superior to Man, are repeating (metaphysically, at least) the uprising against the creator (Zeus) that occured at Kobol, it would make sense that their God is the original "jealous god" that Elosha described.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Actually, this hasn't been confirmed. In the orig series, Man left Kobol due to overpopulation and pollution. They then settled on the 13 different planets.

They said so while being on Kobol at the end of season 1.

While you are right that it is a myth, so to speak, a lot has come true. Still, I share your objection that everything in the Scrolls should be taken at face value. Nevertheless, that's what was said.

[goMac]

My guess at the timeline is something like this:

God created mankind and mankind lived with him on Kobol. The humans appointed twelve leaders to work with God and brings Gods word to everyone and manage the local cable company. One of the twelve leaders wanted to rival God's power and rule for himself, and he convinced the other 11 lords to follow him promising them more power. The war on Kobol began, and in the end, God exiled all of humanity. God condemned the corrupt twelve lords to be killed. The followers of each of the twelve lords left to go find a colony each for themselves. One group was so disgusted with what had happened that they no longer wished to have anything to do with the followers of the twelve lords and set off on the exact opposite direction. The followers of the twelve lords settle on the twelve colonies, while the 13th group settles on Earth. The twelve colonies re-write history without god, elevating their own twelve lords to being gods. Also, in order to mask their sins, the 13th group is now a "lost tribe" instead of the dissenting tribe.

The twelve colonies never give up their dream of playing god though, and in their efforts to be gods they bring destruction upon themselves. Now realizing the error of their ways they seek out the 13th splinter group for help. With mankind now reunited and fully aware of how they have sinned, mankind as a whole has reached a point of redemption in God's eyes. God decides to help the newly redeemed mankind, however, he will destroy the evil by destroying the whole universe. In the end he chooses twelve people who he sees as best showing a quality that is part of mankind. He brings them to Kobol to live with him, while he destroys the rest of the universe, essentially bringing everything back to a clean slate. The twelve survivors are made the new twelve lords of Kobol, and are allowed to repopulate mankind. The cycle then repeats.

The cylons have figured out this cycle. They also know that when God destroys the universe they will be destroyed. They look at humans and see an ungrateful people that don't even know how much god loves them, despite how much they sin. They believe they could be a better mankind for god, and that they are more deserving of being saved from the end of the universe. To this degree they decide that they want to replace mankind in the cycle, and be the ones that God chooses to live with him on Kobol in the end. So they then strive to become more human. They build 12 cylons that would act as a more loyal 12 lords of Kobol. Each of these cylons exemplifies some sort of human nature, like what god wants from the twelve survivors. Then the cylons know that in order to be the ones chosen by god they will need to be able to repopulate after the universe ends. God needs a people that can repopulate the galaxy after he cleanses it. As a final act of proving themselves to god, they decide to take it upon themselves to wipe out the descendants of the twelve lords of Kobol that sinned against god.

So the cylons attack the twelve colonies and destroy them. However, this fails to win God's approval. God feels sorry for his waylaid children, not angry. Not only that, but not all the people living in the twelve colonies are sinners. A small group escapes. This small group begins to ask themselves if they are really sinners and begins looking for forgiveness. They also begin to seek out Earth, setting in motion the reuniting of mankind, the end of the galaxy, and mankind's return to Kobol to live with God. The Cylons now realize that they've been acting as god's instrument to bring mankind back to him. This puts the Cylons in an interesting position. If they take strong action against the fleet, they will be attacking God's chosen people and therefore attacking God. If they stop attacking the survivors they might be giving up their chance to win over God as being the people more deserving of God's approval. If the human fleet reaches Earth this will start the apocalypse. But the fleet has to reach Earth to start the apocalypse so that the Cylon's can be taken to Kobol. So, for the most part currently, they sit and whine about how much mankind doesn't deserve god's love.

Just my theory on it. Hope it made some sense.

[SpaceMonkey]

Interesting. I'm not sure I like the idea that the singular God is so active and distinct a figure (wouldn't he see how destructive and futile the cycle continues to be?). I guess it depends on whether you think the cycle of events is a literal cycle of continuing exodus and re-population of Kobol, or if you think it is like the more metaphorical cycle that I talked about a few posts up.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

What was the story with the original?

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by goMac

My guess at the timeline is something like this:

God created mankind and mankind lived with him on Kobol. The humans appointed twelve leaders to work with God and brings Gods word to everyone and manage the local cable company. One of the twelve leaders wanted to rival God's power and rule for himself, and he convinced the other 11 lords to follow him promising them more power. The war on Kobol began, and in the end, God exiled all of humanity. God condemned the corrupt twelve lords to be killed. The followers of each of the twelve lords left to go find a colony each for themselves. One group was so disgusted with what had happened that they no longer wished to have anything to do with the followers of the twelve lords and set off on the exact opposite direction. The followers of the twelve lords settle on the twelve colonies, while the 13th group settles on Earth. The twelve colonies re-write history without god, elevating their own twelve lords to being gods. Also, in order to mask their sins, the 13th group is now a "lost tribe" instead of the dissenting tribe.

The twelve colonies never give up their dream of playing god though, and in their efforts to be gods they bring destruction upon themselves. Now realizing the error of their ways they seek out the 13th splinter group for help. With mankind now reunited and fully aware of how they have sinned, mankind as a whole has reached a point of redemption in God's eyes. God decides to help the newly redeemed mankind, however, he will destroy the evil by destroying the whole universe. In the end he chooses twelve people who he sees as best showing a quality that is part of mankind. He brings them to Kobol to live with him, while he destroys the rest of the universe, essentially bringing everything back to a clean slate. The twelve survivors are made the new twelve lords of Kobol, and are allowed to repopulate mankind. The cycle then repeats.

The cylons have figured out this cycle. They also know that when God destroys the universe they will be destroyed. They look at humans and see an ungrateful people that don't even know how much god loves them, despite how much they sin. They believe they could be a better mankind for god, and that they are more deserving of being saved from the end of the universe. To this degree they decide that they want to replace mankind in the cycle, and be the ones that God chooses to live with him on Kobol in the end. So they then strive to become more human. They build 12 cylons that would act as a more loyal 12 lords of Kobol. Each of these cylons exemplifies some sort of human nature, like what god wants from the twelve survivors. Then the cylons know that in order to be the ones chosen by god they will need to be able to repopulate after the universe ends. God needs a people that can repopulate the galaxy after he cleanses it. As a final act of proving themselves to god, they decide to take it upon themselves to wipe out the descendants of the twelve lords of Kobol that sinned against god.

So the cylons attack the twelve colonies and destroy them. However, this fails to win God's approval. God feels sorry for his waylaid children, not angry. Not only that, but not all the people living in the twelve colonies are sinners. A small group escapes. This small group begins to ask themselves if they are really sinners and begins looking for forgiveness. They also begin to seek out Earth, setting in motion the reuniting of mankind, the end of the galaxy, and mankind's return to Kobol to live with God. The Cylons now realize that they've been acting as god's instrument to bring mankind back to him. This puts the Cylons in an interesting position. If they take strong action against the fleet, they will be attacking God's chosen people and therefore attacking God. If they stop attacking the survivors they might be giving up their chance to win over God as being the people more deserving of God's approval. If the human fleet reaches Earth this will start the apocalypse. But the fleet has to reach Earth to start the apocalypse so that the Cylon's can be taken to Kobol. So, for the most part currently, they sit and whine about how much mankind doesn't deserve god's love.

Just my theory on it. Hope it made some sense.

One of the best theories I've seen yet.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

What was the story with the original?

Edit: nevermind, link doesn't work. The contents of it were:

“Battlestar Galactica,” the original series, consisted of 24 episodes. “Galactica 1980,” which was picked up a year later and dropped quickly, had just 10.

In the original, the humans of the twelve human colonies (named after star signs, like Capricorn) have been at war with the robotic Cylons for 1000 years. At the time the pilot begins, a human trader named Baltar has come as the Cylon’s ambassador, claiming that the beings are tired of war and want to sue for peace. Only Commander Adama (Lorne Greene), of the battlestar Galactica, thinks Baltar is full of felgercarb (see terminology section). But the Council of Twelve, in the first of many bad decisions, overrules Adama and decides to leave their colonies and ships relatively unprotected. The Cylons attack at this vulnerable moment. Among the first victims is Adama’s youngest son, Zac (Rick Springfield).

A holocaust ensues. Though the Galactica has left its position in a last-ditch attempt try to save the colonies (thus spurring its warriors to erroneously think Adama is a coward), it is too late and most of the population of the twelve worlds has been wiped out. Galactica, out of twelve battlestars, is the last one left. Adama sends out an order that the survivors should leave the planets in whatever ships they can, and they will leave the system to the Cylons.

Thus begins the journey depicted in the only season of “Battlestar Galactica.” Adama’s faith leads him to remember the legend of a 13th colony, “a shining planet called Earth.” This is his goal, and he leads the ragtag army of ships towards a new destiny.

In “Galactica 1980,” set a generation after the series ends, many of the main characters have been killed off or abandoned (only Adama and Boomer remain of the original cast). The Galactica finds Earth, but not the Earth they hoped would be able to stand up to the might of the Cylons.

There's also a bunch of articles related to the original series at battlestarwiki.org here.

[Dale Sorel]

Originally Posted by goMac

My guess at the timeline is something like this:

Me thinks maybe you should get outside a little more often

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

Me thinks maybe you should get outside a little more often

I only usually get outside on the weekends.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally Posted by goMac

My guess at the timeline is something like this:

So, if I understand your theory correctly, the entire human cast of BSG are a pack of inbreeders, or at least descended from a pack of inbreeders?

[I Bent My Wookiee]

What time frame do you think the show takes place in relation to earth? IF BSG found earth tomorrow would they be in the years 2006 or did all this take place 2000 years ago?

I know there is no final answer, just your guess.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

So, if I understand your theory correctly, the entire human cast of BSG are a pack of inbreeders, or at least descended from a pack of inbreeders?

Yes, they all came from a Trailer Park.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

So, if I understand your theory correctly, the entire human cast of BSG are a pack of inbreeders, or at least descended from a pack of inbreeders?

I'm saying all humans are descendants of the twelve lords of Kobol, and the cylons are trying to mimic that.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm saying all humans are descendants of the twelve lords of Kobol, and the cylons are trying to mimic that.

You miss one big, obvious point; MAN created the Cylons, who revolted. Not a God or gods.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

You miss one big, obvious point; MAN created the Cylons, who revolted. Not a God or gods.

Where did he insinuate the Cylons were made by God?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Silky Voice of The Gorn

You miss one big, obvious point; MAN created the Cylons, who revolted. Not a God or gods.

They weren't made by God. I pointed out that the humans created the Cylons because they wanted to play god, like they did on Kobol.

[Silky Voice of The Gorn]

Originally Posted by goMac

They weren't made by God. I pointed out that the humans created the Cylons because they wanted to play god, like they did on Kobol.

Well, you didn't really. You wrote, "The twelve colonies never give up their dream of playing god though..." Your first mention of Cylons is, "The cylons have figured out this cycle. " There's no explicit connection here that man created the Cylons. Yes, we know this from the series of course, but your otherwise detailed content skipped this point, so I misread your intent.
No biggie.

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by I Bent My Wookiee

What time frame do you think the show takes place in relation to earth? IF BSG found earth tomorrow would they be in the years 2006 or did all this take place 2000 years ago?

I know there is no final answer, just your guess.

I assume that it takes place in the far future. Far enough into the future that the true nature of Earth has been lost to myth and brief mentions in scripture.

It could turn out that they find Earth in our past, but that wouldn't jive with the whole naturalistic sci-fi that the show tries to do. The creators put a lot of effort into making sure the BSG universe maintains a sense of realism (or at least enough that it's not impossible to suspend disbelief), so it would make sense that human civilization on Earth was a precursor to colonial society. It would at least allow for some explanation as to why their civilization looks like civilization on Earth.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Myriad

I assume that it takes place in the far future. Far enough into the future that the true nature of Earth has been lost to myth and brief mentions in scripture.

It could turn out that they find Earth in our past, but that wouldn't jive with the whole naturalistic sci-fi that the show tries to do. The creators put a lot of effort into making sure the BSG universe maintains a sense of realism (or at least enough that it's not impossible to suspend disbelief), so it would make sense that human civilization on Earth was a precursor to colonial society. It would at least allow for some explanation as to why their civilization looks like civilization on Earth.

I think it takes place in the modern day. Remember, they're looking for modern day us.

[JHromadka]

Originally Posted by goMac

I think it takes place in the modern day. Remember, they're looking for modern day us.

Boy are they going to be dissapointed.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Boy are they going to be dissapointed.

I said that to a friend once who was asking about the series, and he responds, " you act like you really believe they're out there." And then I realized I sorta did

[goMac]

Originally Posted by JHromadka

Boy are they going to be dissapointed.

In the original series they did get to Earth, and they were indeed disappointed.

[Lateralus]

I'm proud of myself. At the beginning of the episode, as soon as the hostage takers demanded Sharon, I thought to myself; 'I bet Adama is gonna use that Sharon popsicle to fool them.'.

And he did.

Gome.

[BigBadWolf]

I never did like Billy.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

I'm proud of myself. At the beginning of the episode, as soon as the hostage takers demanded Sharon, I thought to myself; 'I bet Adama is gonna use that Sharon popsicle to fool them.'.

And he did.

Gome.

Yeah that was very predictable. This ep was kinda meh. Next weeks show looks really good though.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Wow. You're good. It's rare to see somebody with enough skill and sense of plot to detect the ending to such a detailed and intricate episode as this. Cheers Lateralus!

Fixed™

Originally Posted by BigBadWolf

I never did like Billy.

He wasn't the best character on the show, but I can think of a number of others I would have rather seen die.

[Dale Sorel]

I still think Dana Delany is a babe

[goMac]

I now predict Billy is a Cylon.

Edit: Never mind, seems he was killed because the actor had other projects.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Lateralus

Fixed™

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by goMac

I now predict Billy is a Cylon.

Edit: Never mind, seems he was killed because the actor had other projects.

He really quit the show for that? I mean really, it wasn't as if his role on the show was that demanding. This episode was the most he's ever really done, as most of the time he was standing still behind Roslyn on colonial one, or walking down a random hall on Galactica delivering one or two lines at best.

I guess I would think he could remain on BSG and pursue his other projects without much effort. I mean hell, if i were him I'd milk it for all it's worth. Most likely the series will run for at least 5 or 6 years, and could quite possibly transform to being a movie franchise after that. That's a lot of easy paychecks for him to pass up, not to mention royalties from syndication and dvd sales.

Oh well cya Billy.

[SpaceMonkey]

I thought it was a pretty good episode. I'm not as brilliant as Lateralus, so I didn't guess that Adama was going to use the dead-for-weeks Boomer until he negotiated that point with the hostage-takers. And then I was thinking "wait, how are they going to explain that huge autopsy scar on her chest?"

I personally thought Billy was a good character, and I liked the tension in his relationship with Dee. And he was the only young civilian that regularly got any screen time, which helped balance out the cast a bit. In retrospect, I should have realized that they were going to kill him off in this episode when they gave him more lines in the opening scenes than he's had practically all season. Oh well.

[goMac]

I thought Dee was a jerk. Billy gives his life for her and the next and only thing we see from her the whole episode was her fawning over Lee. You think she would have gone to see the body or given her condolences or something.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I personally thought Billy was a good character, and I liked the tension in his relationship with Dee. And he was the only young civilian that regularly got any screen time, which helped balance out the cast a bit.

the president is a civilian, by definition

[Eug Wanker]

Good episode. This one breaks the streak of bad shows for BSG.

However, I feel a real loss.

[JoshuaZ]

Yeah, it was kind of a meh ep. Though I did like how it showed Tye's wife messing around on him. It was quite funny when she tried to kiss Lee in the bathroom.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Corpse of Chewbacca

the president is a civilian, by definition

I said young civilian. I don't know how old Laura Roslin is supposed to be, but Mary McDonnell is 53! I meant balanced as in like, someone who is Dee's or Kara's age but not in the military.

[I Bent My Wookiee]

I liked this episode buy I hate Dee more that I did before. Billy bites it and she is in the hospital still drooling over Lee? Space Hoe.

Anyway, I hope next week returns to blasting Cylons and the whole cast being in it.