[JoshuaZ]

well, there are many copies. She`ll be around for a long ass time. More then some random cast, who will hopefully die.

[Dale Sorel]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I thought, in modern aircraft carrier operations, that the CAG is a senior officer? Galactica's original CAG (before Lee showed up) was a major.

CAG = Commander, Air Group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander,_Air_Group

[greenamp]

I never thought of this till just now, but wouldn't you think Saul would be a bit pissed he was never even considered for commander of Pegasus? Won't he be under Lee now?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by greenamp

I never thought of this till just now, but wouldn't you think Saul would be a bit pissed he was never even considered for commander of Pegasus? Won't he be under Lee now?

Honestly, I don't think he wants the job. He didn't want to be in command of Galactica either.

[Myriad]

They're still going to have to have a scene where Tigh deals with the fact that Lee Adama outranks him. He may not have wanted command, but him being a colonel while Lee becomes a commander is just too good for the writers not to make an issue out of.

Unless they go ahead and make Tigh a Commander as well. One admiral leads the fleet while each ship gets its own commander.

[Teronzhul]

Well, now we know for damn sure six isn't a chip in the doctors head. I suppose now its supposed to be a mutual reaction due to some nuclear radiation and the cylon memory download process. I certainly wasn't expecting six to have Baltar on the brain.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

I certainly wasn't expecting six to have Baltar on the brain.

Yeah that was pretty wild. Took me totally off guard.

[Dale Sorel]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Yeah that was pretty wild. Took me totally off guard.

What a great SciFi series

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

What a great SciFi series

I agree. This episode was very dynamic. I never saw this twist coming quite like that.

[mrtew]

Not only is the Baltar relationship reversed for her but the whole war is reversed for the Cylons. Most all seem to think that they are fighting with God's blessing against the evil heathen humans. It reminds me of the wars we have on Earth where each side thinks it's "good" and the other side is the evil satan devil bla bla bla. Except that Battlestar makes it seem interesting and intelligent whereas 'the news' just makes you want to puke.

[RAILhead]

GOOD FREAKIN EPISODE!

Thank goodness they got outta the funk of the last 2 epis.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by mrtew

Not only is the Baltar relationship reversed for her but the whole war is reversed for the Cylons. Most all seem to think that they are fighting with God's blessing against the evil heathen humans.

I wouldn't say that's a reversal. The humans don't think they're fighting with God's blessing against the evil heathen cylons, do they?

Good episode, though. I hope they do more with Sharon and Six Mark 1.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

CAG = Commander, Air Group

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commander,_Air_Group

Yeah, that was my point.

[goMac]

For reference the Cylon baby was named Hera, who in mythology is the God of Earth.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by goMac

For reference the Cylon baby was named Hera, who in mythology is the God of Earth.

Things that make ya go hmmmm...

[Ozmodiar]

Best episode of the entire series.

[Myriad]

I had heard that they were having problems with that episode, but it certainly didn't show in the finished product.

Although it looks like they couldn't get the actor who played Simon (Cylon doctor), because they had a guy who looked marginally like him in some of the background shots on Caprica. Only four different Cylon models got speaking roles.

[greenamp]

Speaking of which...

I thought I noticed what looked like another model in the cafe scene. As they were panning through, you could see the back of ones head who was sitting down that didn't look like any of the others at all.

Anyone else notice this too?

[OreoCookie]

THAT were two great episodes … 2x17 and 2x18

[Myriad]

Originally Posted by greenamp

I thought I noticed what looked like another model in the cafe scene. As they were panning through, you could see the back of ones head who was sitting down that didn't look like any of the others at all.

Was he bald? I think that was their Simon look-alike.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

My lord 218 is the best one of the whole series!

[JHromadka]

It was every bit as good as the previews looked.

[Sourbook]

Originally Posted by goMac

For reference the Cylon baby was named Hera, who in mythology is the God of Earth.

Hera: Greek Mythology.
The goddess of women, marriage, and childbirth; the wife and sister of Zeus.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Sourbook

Hera: Greek Mythology.
The goddess of women, marriage, and childbirth; the wife and sister of Zeus.

Along with being the Earth Mother.

[Spliff]

How did Baltar survive the nuclear blast?

[powerbook867]

That is the question that has been nagging me as well spliff. Plus, the connection between Baltar and Six seems to be unique....

Is he another model cylon?

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Spliff

How did Baltar survive the nuclear blast?

Baltar's house was pretty far away from the blast that destroyed it. This, the radiation wasn't enough to kill him instantly. What destroyed his house was the blast wave, and apparently Six shielded him from serious damage with her own body.

[Stogieman]

Why wasn't the baby still in the incubator when they handed it off to the foster mom? I thought the doctor said his lungs were still developing.

[]

The doctor was lying to Sharon and Helo.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by powerbook867

That is the question that has been nagging me as well spliff. Plus, the connection between Baltar and Six seems to be unique....

Is he another model cylon?

Six is a Cylon and we know she didn't survive the blast. Baltar more than likely would have had to have been reborn on Caprica, not impossible though.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Stogieman

Why wasn't the baby still in the incubator when they handed it off to the foster mom? I thought the doctor said his lungs were still developing.

The doctor also said the baby was dead. He was lying so Sharon wouldn't go looking for it.

[Corpse of Chewbacca]

Most dramatic episode ever. The end.

Wow, I am imperessed. So it's not an anomoly that the Sharon model has a conscience. Six as well. Bravo, this will make for interesting future episodes.

I really liked the reaction of the resistance fighter (forgot his character's name). I can only imagine that Six and Sharon will team up with the resistance.

[goMac]

Wait... This episode exonerates Baltar as a possible Cylon.

1) If Baltar was a Cylon Six would have known he was still alive, she knows all the Cylon modals.
2) If Baltar were a Cylon, the Cylons wouldn't have been worried about Six. There is nothing wrong with falling in love with another Cylon.
3) The Cylons referred to Baltar as a human numerous times throughout the episode.

Sounds like Baltar has been cleared to me.

[OreoCookie]

Also, if Baltar were a Cylon, why would they need Six to gain access to the Defense Mainframe? Baltar could have done that (as a sleeper agent) on his own.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Also, if Baltar were a Cylon, why would they need Six to gain access to the Defense Mainframe? Baltar could have done that (as a sleeper agent) on his own.

Well, it's been theorized that Baltar could have done the whole thing himself. I don't think Baltar did, but Baltar wasn't Six's only mission. She had a second mission and met with a cylon on Caprica, but we don't know what the mission was or who the Cylon was.

This episode also cleared up one more thing. Cylons don't actually have real families, however, they are programmed to think they do. One more thing confirmed is that the Cylons have only been infiltrating the Colonies for the past 2 years (again, it's stated six was on Caprica for 2 years, just like Boomer has been in the fleet for 2 years). This means Admiral Adama can't be a Cylon (been around far too long), Captain Adama can't be a Cylon (has family for sure), and Kara probably can't be a Cylon (has known the Adama's who aren't Cylons for too long, although we're not sure exactly how long she has known them).

[OreoCookie]

Still, I find it highly unlikely … why all the pretense, especially with Caprica Six being the big war hero. If Baltar did all this on his own, HE would be the big hero. C Six needn't be lauded for making the sleeper agent Baltar to believe he is loved by her, etc. pp.

But I agree with the rest of your assessment. Now that Billy is gone, he is also off the hook. I always had this suspicion that they pull another Sharon on the audience: oh no, not the nice guy No more Mr. Nice Guy!

I also think that there is not too much room to plant a cylon with `old' characters. E. g. I'd be more than surprised if Tigh were a Cylon. If one of the main characters were another cylon, that person had to be well-chosen. They know they can't risk making it too ludicrous. No double-triple crossings or so. They need to keep the show believable (to some degree ).

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by powerbook867

That is the question that has been nagging me as well spliff. Plus, the connection between Baltar and Six seems to be unique.... Is he another model cylon?

Baltar and 6 seem to have a unique relationship because of the way the show is filmed, but maybe all of us are haunted by people from our past that could drive us mad if we were pushed to the breaking point by events in our lives. Are the insane the only ones that hear voices in their heads, or are they just the only ones that listen?

Also, I bet they're just messing with our minds about there being 12 cylon models. I mean I'm sure there are 12 but there's no reason to think they'd need to discover more to make the plot work! Kara may have three uncles and eight cousins but we aren't going to see them either probably. heeheehee Besides, all this everyone-suspecting-everyone of being one is soooooo season one.

[demibob]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Also, if Baltar were a Cylon, why would they need Six to gain access to the Defense Mainframe? Baltar could have done that (as a sleeper agent) on his own.

In the original Baltar was a human that ended up betraying the human race and joining the cylons wasnt he. Im fairly sure something similar will happen in the new series so i dont think he could be a cylon.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by demibob

In the original Baltar was a human that ended up betraying the human race and joining the cylons wasnt he. Im fairly sure something similar will happen in the new series so i dont think he could be a cylon.

There's a difference between a human betraying humanity and a cylon. With the more interesting story line they are weaving now, Baltar's position will be far more interesting. He won't join the uniform cylon side, but rather the side of Caprica Six and Galactica Sharon (for the lack of better words). There, the people don't know so clearly if he's `betraying' them as their attitude towards humanity and their genocide is different from that of the `other' cylons.

In the original series it's just black and white.

What strikes me as odd is that neither Adama nor Roslin seem to think a lot about the ulterior motives of the cylons … and why they need a human-cylon hybrid in the first place.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by powerbook867

That is the question that has been nagging me as well spliff. Plus, the connection between Baltar and Six seems to be unique....

Is he another model cylon?

I think Teronzhul's interpretation (earlier on this page) is the most likely:

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

Well, now we know for damn sure six isn't a chip in the doctors head. I suppose now its supposed to be a mutual reaction due to some nuclear radiation and the cylon memory download process. I certainly wasn't expecting six to have Baltar on the brain.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Some behind the scenes I noticed.... Sharrons apartment is the same apartment that Michael Keton uses in the shitty movie White Noise.

It is also the same building complex that the President is told she has cancer in the pilot episode.

Both in Vancouver B.C.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Here are the questions we need to answer:

1) Why does this Sharron and Gina think they are human? What happened? Is this some sort of programming defect if they fall in love and then die?

2) Why does Gina see a pretend Baltar? When Gina died did her subconscious somehow go into Baltars brain and vice versa?

3) Why does imaginary Baltar and imaginary Gina seem to be able to look into the future and guide the person that sees them?

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Here are the questions we need to answer:

1) Why does this Sharron and Gina think they are human? What happened? Is this some sort of programming defect if they fall in love and then die?

2) Why does Gina see a pretend Baltar? When Gina died did her subconscious somehow go into Baltars brain and vice versa?

3) Why does imaginary Baltar and imaginary Gina seem to be able to look into the future and guide the person that sees them?

I'm sure that's what the writers are racking their brains for right now. It's an interesting way to write I think.... paint yourself into one corner after another and they try to write yourself out without destroying the story up to that point. Sure keeps things from getting predictable!
P.S. 1. Programming 2. They're angels from God 3. All this has happened before.

[ThinkInsane]

The thing that I'm wondering about now with Baltar and Six is that the version each sees of the other is not a realistic portrayal of the person themselves. What I mean is that we now know that Caprica Six, an exact copy of the "person" who loved Baltar before the attack is far more human than the Six that occupies Baltar's head. On the other hand, the Baltar in Caprica Six's head is far more self-assured and I would even say cunning, or at least more insightful then the actual Baltar that we know.

It would seem to me that these manifestations allow them to do what they want to do, but can't allow themselves to think it was their own idea. Maybe. I don't know. But right now I'm thinking that maybe the strain of these events, waging genocide and what not, caused these two to crack. If that's the case, the whole thing becomes way too contrived. I hope that there turns out to be another explanation, but that's where I see it going at this point. Anyone have any thoughts?

I also dug that the Cylons have their own assassination method. that they can manually shut down the the resurrection process and not regenerate a specific personality. And the fact that they use it as an assassination method shows just how human the cylons have become.

Another thing in this episode that got me thinking was the scene when Six and Sharon (man, they are really going to have to come up with a better way to name characters. Six, Caprica Six, and Galactica Sharon are going to get cumbersome quick. And does this make the Sharon on Galactica Caprica Sharon? WTF. At least the Six in the resistance is Gina, that helps.) are in the park, there are centurions planting trees in the background. What I'm wondering is, what are the centurions like? The skin jobs are obviously equated to humans, and from (Caprica?) Sharon we learned that the Raiders are sentient cybernetic creatures that could probably be equated with a fighting dog.

So what about the centurions? Are they cybernetic too? I don't know if they've ever said if they are solely mechanical (I still haven't watched all of season one). I wonder what they would be equated to if they also had a conscious mind like the other models have. Or is the conscious mind only attached to models made with meat? Huh.

In the old series, I think there was an episode where Starbuck was stranded on a planet with a centurion. They became buddies by the end. That premiss could make for a pretty cool show in the new series as well.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

The thing that I'm wondering about now with Baltar and Six is that the version each sees of the other is not a realistic portrayal of the person themselves. What I mean is that we now know that Caprica Six, an exact copy of the "person" who loved Baltar before the attack is far more human than the Six that occupies Baltar's head. On the other hand, the Baltar in Caprica Six's head is far more self-assured and I would even say cunning, or at least more insightful then the actual Baltar that we know.

I still think there is some sort of connection. Every once in a while, ideas are planted inside Baltar's head that he obviously did not come up with himself (e. g. that he needs a nuclear warhead for his cylon detector or where to hit the cylon's thyllium refinery). But it cannot be too strong a link, at times, Six is not present at all, but then returns at some crucial point in time.

Here's one possible piece of speculation: what if Baltar was implanted a chip and that he had a very deep connection with Six while she was on Caprica. Somehow parts of Six ended up in his brain and vice versa. Think of the parts which transferred are the parts the other one wants to seem like, what is called `residual self-image' in the Matrix. This way, the respective `ghost' has all the `better'/idealized qualities of the `real' person. Also, you could exploit this factoid nicely, as a link of love (romantic, isn't it? ). With this chip, the respective subconscious ghost personality, the idealized shadow of the real thing, could link up with the other to obtain information for instance.

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

It would seem to me that these manifestations allow them to do what they want to do, but can't allow themselves to think it was their own idea. Maybe. I don't know. But right now I'm thinking that maybe the strain of these events, waging genocide and what not, caused these two to crack. If that's the case, the whole thing becomes way too contrived. I hope that there turns out to be another explanation, but that's where I see it going at this point. Anyone have any thoughts?

I think it was really love (i. e. singling out one person and elevating it above the `collective') that differentiate the two renegade cylons from the rest.

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

I also dug that the Cylons have their own assassination method. that they can manually shut down the the resurrection process and not regenerate a specific personality. And the fact that they use it as an assassination method shows just how human the cylons have become.

Yup, exactly.

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Another thing in this episode that got me thinking was the scene when Six and Sharon (man, they are really going to have to come up with a better way to name characters. Six, Caprica Six, and Galactica Sharon are going to get cumbersome quick. And does this make the Sharon on Galactica Caprica Sharon? WTF. At least the Six in the resistance is Gina, that helps.) are in the park, there are centurions planting trees in the background. What I'm wondering is, what are the centurions like? The skin jobs are obviously equated to humans, and from (Caprica?) Sharon we learned that the Raiders are sentient cybernetic creatures that could probably be equated with a fighting dog.

I think they are very similar to those fighting drones. They don't seem to be too smart either (just watch the cylon walking calmly to the bomb with the burning cigarette as trigger).

Another thing that I find weird is that the cylons obviously want to copy humans. They are living in apartments, having coffee, they even have the centurions replant trees in a park!

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

1) Why does this Sharron and Gina think they are human? What happened? Is this some sort of programming defect if they fall in love and then die?

Gina does not think she's a cylon, only Sharon does. And Sharon does so, because she was trained to be a sleeper agent. Apparently that cracked her as the `simulated' emotions turned real.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

2) Why does Gina see a pretend Baltar? When Gina died did her subconscious somehow go into Baltars brain and vice versa?

I have a theory on this (see my other post).

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

That I see coming is a group of human Cylons becoming freedom fighters and sabotaging the rest of the cylon fleet. The mechanical ones are all destroyed and the human ones become mortal and live happily ever after on the original colonies. Humans find earth and happily live there with the cylon kid mixed nicely into the DNA chain.

I sorta hope I am wrong as this is kinda what happened on DS9.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by mrtew

I'd like to see more comparo's! Maybe something with the ships or characters, not just a freaky landscape. Please.

http://www.cornbread.org/FOTRCompare/index.html

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

That I see coming is a group of human Cylons becoming freedom fighters and sabotaging the rest of the cylon fleet. The mechanical ones are all destroyed and the human ones become mortal and live happily ever after on the original colonies. Humans find earth and happily live there with the cylon kid mixed nicely into the DNA chain.

I sorta hope I am wrong as this is kinda what happened on DS9.

I'm still standing by my theory. In Downloaded, it was confirmed that the Cylons do not have direct contact with God for the most part, that he didn't order them to destroy the colonies, that the Cylons are indeed having doubts that they did the right thing (and there is a coverup), and that the Cylons are indeed trying to create "the next generation of God's children."

I think in the end the Cylon rebellion will have to sacrifice themselves for humanity as a way of redeeming themselves. Think about it. It's the ultimate act of humanity.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Another thing that I find weird is that the cylons obviously want to copy humans. They are living in apartments, having coffee, they even have the centurions replant trees in a park!

They were originally programmed for life on earth, weren't they? It probably seems as natural to them as it does to us.