[Chuckit]

The original show was so Mormon, it's amazing the characters didn't all wear CTR rings.

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

The original show was so Mormon, it's amazing the characters didn't all wear CTR rings.

Yeah. I'm by no means a Mormon nor have I ever been one but from what I do know of the Mormon faith, the Cylons seem to be using Mormon sounding phrases.

It really stands out in in one scene in particular where Six in Gaius's head talks of the Pythian prophesy right after the destruction of the Cylon mining facility and how things are the way they were before and will be again. That was sort of sounds like the Mormon stuff from the original series with the ship of lights and how they said that they had once been like the colonials and one day they would be like them too.

[Millennium]

Personally, I have my doubts that they'll ever really define what Baltar-Six and Six-Baltar really are. It's kind of like Hobbes from Calvin and Hobbes: defining just how 'real' they are would take a lot away from their characters.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I think there is something more to Baltar, but I don't think it's that he's a Cylon. There seems to be a general group of "special" people, but BSG wouldn't make it that easy on us and just call them Cylons.

I think that Baltar may have been the brains behind the original skin jobs. Cloning himself or engineering a copy may have been the work of a young Gaius.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Aliens? Uh, dude... did you miss the dialog completely? I'm sensing that you feel uncomfortable with the whole Cylon god thing. You do realize that BSG is presented as fiction right? You can leave your prejudices at the door and enjoy it as a good show since it is presented as SciFi.

Speculation is great and all but you are going way out into left field here for some reason and straying away from the new BSG cannon. If you read what the producers, writers and principle actors say about the series, the series could be seen as a social commentary of tensions between different ideologies or religions.

If you know anything about the original BSG, the colonials in that series were sort of Mormons in space and the Cylons were just unemotional killing machines. With this new series, the colonials seem to be more pagan, believing in a pantheon of gods while the Cylons appear to be single-minded mono-theistic Mormons.

Glen Larson was known to be a member of the LDS church during the 80's at least and he produced the original series as well as being one of the producers of this new one.

Settle down. This is fiction, not the pol lounge, and has nothing to do with personal beliefs. We are speculating here, and trying to outguess the writers, which is an interesting exercise because these writers are pretty sharp.

Some outside party is interfering in Colonial and Cylon affairs. There have been assorted incidents, mostly in Season 1, that were not explainable with the visible parties. But those were all ambiguous, or implied Cylon manipulations happening in the background. The tent oracle incident is the first item that can't be accounted for by the visible parties. The Cylons didn't know Hera was alive, and only three Humans on the planet know (Roslin, Tory, Cottle). None of whom were likely to talk. It's not 100% certain that Adm. Adama knew, he's the only other real possibility. He's offworld, and not too likely to talk either.

It is implied to be gods, but we are very unlikely to see any of those on screen. They are too powerful, and tend to wrap everything up. That is not so good for storylines or character development. Also, they are a bit obvious at this point, and BSG likes to surprise.

On the other hand, aliens or machinations by unknown groups are distinct possibilities to be shown. RDM is on record that there will not be any aliens-of-the-week, ala Star Trek or the original BSG. That does not rule out aliens entirely, and it's a big galaxy. In the alternative, it may be possible to fix Tory up with a motive and opportunity somehow.

btw, your sensors need calibration. Having the Cylons go religious for thus-far unexplained reasons adds a great deal of spice to the show. I'm digging that the next few eps will include story arcs on the Cylon side of the fence, we'll finally get some more data to work with.

ps - Glen Larson is credited as a writer on the miniseries under a pseudonym, because RDM felt it was essentially his story retold. The new BSG also lists him as a "Consulting Producer", which looks suspiciously like a polite way to say "Creative Consultant". They accept his phone calls. It doesn't appear that he's done any actual production on the new show.

[ThinkInsane]

Enough out of you, you Mormon sympathizer!

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Edward Olmos has already said he's leaving the show the moment a bumpy headed alien shows up.

P.S. It seems that Battlestar Galactica is coming to HD DVD.

It's no longer listed, but a while back it was one of the "Coming Soon" titles on the Toshiba HD DVD public relations site. However, it seems it p!ssed off some studios because most of the titles listed hadn't officially been announced yet. So now the site only lists officially announced titles. Nonetheless, it does look like BSG is coming to HD.

[Dark Helmet]

Think about what Lucy Lawless said in the last episode.

If the Cylons just went away and let the humans live in piece what would happen? They would tell tales of how the evil Cylons came and nearly destroyed all humans and caused the survivors to become refugees in space. Humans will grow up resenting the cylons and one day venture out to get revenge.

The same thing was said at the end of the pilot.

So what could the solution be, either all humans are eliminated or all Cylons right?

I believe that is why the Cylons want to cross breed so badly. They want to show peaceful co-igsistance with hybrids, OR they want to have so many cylon babies mixed into the human population they they don't know which is which, OR they want the hybrids to live on earth when it is found and the humans can go back to the colonies (radiation permitting) OR all the humans and cylons die and only the hybrids can live on earth. Something along those lines.

[RAILhead]

Okay, this is TWICE today that someone used "piece" instead of "peace." First it was "piece of mind," and now it's "live in piece."

Is today dummkopf day at MacNN?

[paul w]

I just want to know what co-igsistance means. My guess is he's missing the x key.

[RAILhead]

Dang, I didn't make it that far.

[reader50]

Tonight looks like PayBack night. Anyone want to take bets on Gaita getting shot? Most everyone else has at some point.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Tonight looks like PayBack night. Anyone want to take bets on Gaita getting shot? Most everyone else has at some point.

I bet Jammer is a goner.

Perhaps it will even be Cali that busts him even though he saved her life (or tried).

Cali also blackmailed Baltar after he saved her life.

[bstone]

Let's not forget that there is now a known Cylon serving in the Colonial fleet who is married to a human (Sharon Agathon and Helo Agathon). They've already had one baby. Why not more? Young and fertile.

[Dark Helmet]

The writers have said the skinjobs are not replacements of real people and I think the rule for figuring out who MIGHT be a Cylon is the following:

1) People have only known them for 2 years or less.
2) They have no kids nor known parents.
3) They did not fight in the first Cylon war.

So that excludes:

1) Starbuck
2) Adama
3) Apollo
4) Laura
5) Cheif
6) Tigh
7) Ellen
8) Zerek

Off the top of my head the only possibilities are:

1) Dee
2) Gaita
3) Billy
4) Baltar ?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

The writers have said the skinjobs are not replacements of real people and I think the rule for figuring out who MIGHT be a Cylon is the following:

1) People have only known them for 2 years or less.

Cylons might have been in the colonies more than two years ago, don't you think?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

Cylons might have been in the colonies more than two years ago, don't you think?

Well so far the know Cylons like Six and Boomer only showed up 2 years before the attack and I think they have implied that was the start date.

That aside they still haven't have kids... UNLESS there is 2 models that are a child/parernt duo but I doubt it.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Let's not forget that there is now a known Cylon serving in the Colonial fleet who is married to a human (Sharon Agathon and Helo Agathon). They've already had one baby. Why not more? Young and fertile.

It's not outside the realm of possibility. When Dee asked Helo to "take care of the Admiral", Helo replied with something that the closed captions rendered as "take care of our son."

It is entirely possible that he actually said "take care of his son" (the Admiral's son, i.e. Lee) and the captioners just screwed up. That's been known to happen, and it's what my wife thinks happened. But it definitely got my attention.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

It's not outside the realm of possibility. When Dee asked Helo to "take care of the Admiral", Helo replied with something that the closed captions rendered as "take care of our son."

It is entirely possible that he actually said "take care of his son" (the Admiral's son, i.e. Lee) and the captioners just screwed up. That's been known to happen, and it's what my wife thinks happened. But it definitely got my attention.

Ya I heard that also and I still don't know what the hell they were trying to say.

[Millennium]

I really need to watch Downloaded again. I could have sworn I saw a woman in the cafe who looked suspiciously similar to Tory Foster, Roslin's new aide. Maybe I'm just hallucinating; I don't know. But if my memory serves right, this woman only showed up once in the cafe, and then we saw Tory's first appearance in the series on Colonial One late in the episode.

I'll have to see the episode again to make sure. Does anyone else remember anything like this?

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

...
So that excludes:

1) Starbuck
2) Adama
3) Apollo
4) Laura
5) Cheif Chief Tyrol
6) Tigh
7) Ellen
8) Zerek Tom Zarek

Off the top of my head the only possibilities are:

1) Dee
2) Gaita Felix Gaeta
3) Billy
4) Baltar ?

A famous person is also unlikely to be a Cylon, since people research the rich & famous. That tends to leave Baltar off - he was a press darling before the attack. Billy's character is dead, but the actor might be able to do guest spots.

Separately, who might get shot tonight? Here is a handy reference list.

Shot So Far
William Adama (by Boomer)
Lee Adama (by Starbuck, also briefly died by spacing)
Starbuck (presumed by a centurion)
Boomer 2x (by herself, by Cally)
Sharon Agathon (by Helo)
Cally (by a jailbird)
Caprica Six (by a Doral)
Maya (presumed by Raider strafing)
Helo (by a Raider)
Billy (by a terrorist)
Dr. Simon (by Anders gang, knifed by Kara)
Mr. Doral (by insurgents)
Br. Cavil (by the Chief's team, spaced 2x by Roslin)
D'Anna Biers (by Sharon Agathon, also head smashed in, and blown up)

Not Yet Shot
Laura Roslin
Tom Zarek
Saul Tigh (probably off the hook for injuries for awhile)
Chief Tyrol
Felix Gaeta
Dee
Anders
Baltar
Cottle
Tory
Hera
Leoben (but spaced, blown up, and knifed a lot)
Kat (but shot up with stims)

[gumby5647]

Hrm. Population back up to 41,000 and change.

That'salota babies in the span of 1 year and four months.

[xi_hyperon]

Damn, a good episode, but it left me finding many of the characters much less sympathetic. And I thought for a moment that Zarek had redeemed himself, but of course he signed off on the secret trials.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

Damn, a good episode, but it left me finding many of the characters much less sympathetic. And I thought for a moment that Zarek had redeemed himself, but of course he signed off on the secret trials.

I was really disappointed in Tyrol. What on earth made him go, "Well, I've acknowledged that we have no credible evidence against Gaeta, but I'm going to kill him just because Captain Eyepatch said pretty please"? That seemed really off, both for his general character and his previous actions in the episode. I hope there's some revelation coming that he has bipolar disorder or something.

As for Zarek, I thought that worked. Zarek always will be Zarek. It seemed like he had redeemed himself on New Caprica because of his efforts with the insurgency, but if you think about it, he has always been an insurgent — it was just that, for once, everybody else had joined him too.

[JoshuaZ]

I think Zarek knew he had two options. One, Public trial (and we know his feelings on that), or the airlocks. Honestly he probably chose the best option he had available. Public trails would have gone on for weeks and torn the fleet apart. While I think its horrible, it was a rather good sort term solution.

Luckily someone else come up with a better solution for healing.

[Dark Helmet]

Cool episode. The inside of the Cylon ship is way cooler than I thought it would be as last time we saw it it was more gooey and organic. Now it is like a big throbbing metallic womb with a dash of metro-sexual. They also cooked up a new resurrection ship and the basestars looks more brown than silver but it could have just been the lightning.

I also noticed how much darker the show is in terms of lighting, much higher contrast with these overhead lights blasting down on people.

I didn't get the whole Zarek thing, I thought the end part was a act to get him off the presidency because of the conversation he had with laura in the beginning. Perhaps I need to watch it again.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I was really disappointed in Tyrol. What on earth made him go, "Well, I've acknowledged that we have no credible evidence against Gaeta, but I'm going to kill him just because Captain Eyepatch said pretty please"? That seemed really off, both for his general character and his previous actions in the episode. I hope there's some revelation coming that he has bipolar disorder or something.

He was part of the insurgency. They bombed market squares and killed innocents.

This was not at all out of character.

[JoshuaZ]

Originally Posted by analogika 

He was part of the insurgency. They bombed market squares and killed innocents.

This was not at all out of character.

Thats a damn good point. They did a lot of bombing themselves. Of their own free will. Killed a lot of innocent people. Maybe someone should shove them out the airlocks.

[Dark Helmet]

I don't know if they showed it in the American Trailer but it turns the Cylons are looking for earth also.

I got that feeling from the very first episode as there were too many strategically placed agents that survived the initial attack and none of them caused massive destruction when they easily could have. Guess they are using the humans desire to their advantage.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

I don't know if they showed it in the American Trailer but it turns the Cylons are looking for earth also.

I got that feeling from the very first episode as there were too many strategically placed agents that survived the initial attack and none of them caused massive destruction when they easily could have. Guess they are using the humans desire to their advantage.

If that's the case though, the cylons should have let the humans escape New Caprica without a fight, and allow them unwittlingly to aid in the search for earth. Unless of course the cylons are confident they can find it without help.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon 

If that's the case though, the cylons should have let the humans escape New Caprica without a fight, and allow them unwittlingly to aid in the search for earth. Unless of course the cylons are confident they can find it without help.

That is what I don't get either. There are so many cases where the Cylons could have caused serious destruction but didn't.

Boomer blows up water tanks instead of something like the CIC or Power core, Leoban was holding Laura but didn't snap her neck, six was on the Pegasus, Lawless had access to all of BSG, #5 put a transponder in CIC before the attack when a bomb would have been better, then he was on colonial 1, etc.

Sometimes I think the Cylons are trying to lead them, other times they are trying to kill them. To me the cylons look really indecisive as they can't seem to decide if they are trying to kill the humans, make peace, staying on Caprica, finding earth etc.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

So in terms of the Basestar that baltar is on it seems there are only 7 skinjob models onboard.

3 in favor, 3 against, 1 undecided (the 6's).

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Cool episode. The inside of the Cylon ship is way cooler than I thought it would be as last time we saw it it was more gooey and organic. Now it is like a big throbbing metallic womb with a dash of metro-sexual. They also cooked up a new resurrection ship and the basestars looks more brown than silver but it could have just been the lightning.

I also noticed how much darker the show is in terms of lighting, much higher contrast with these overhead lights blasting down on people.

I didn't get the whole Zarek thing, I thought the end part was a act to get him off the presidency because of the conversation he had with laura in the beginning. Perhaps I need to watch it again.

I appreciated how the red horizontal light in Baltar's room did the back-and-forth thing that the eyes on the original BSG centurions did.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Boomer blows up water tanks instead of something like the CIC or Power core,

Destroying CIC is more risky, and only damages Galactica. Destroying the water tanks damages the entire fleet.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Leoban was holding Laura but didn't snap her neck

I don't remember this scene.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

six was on the Pegasus

After she killed Cain she was lucky she got out alive. I also got the feeling she had already accomplished her mission or failed it, and then was caught.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Lawless had access to all of BSG

Again, blowing up Galactica wouldn't have stopped the fleet. She would have had to found explosives somewhere, and she was more useful gathering information on the fleet. Blowing up Galactica would have also killed the hybrid baby.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

#5 put a transponder in CIC before the attack when a bomb would have been better, then he was on colonial 1, etc.

I don't think Doral expected to be on a surviving ship, so he probably didn't bring explosives with him, as I'm sure there is some sort of method the colonials use to detect explosives like we do at airports. A transponder is effective enough because it lets the Cylons find where the entire fleet is.

Remember, the Cylons have blown up some bombs on more critical areas of Galctica before. They one set off a bomb on the hanger deck.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Destroying CIC is more risky, and only damages Galactica. Destroying the water tanks damages the entire fleet.

You don't think destroying the Galactica is better than the water tank? No Galactica, no protection, no order.

I don't remember this scene.

First season when Starbuck torturs Leoban.

After she killed Cain she was lucky she got out alive. I also got the feeling she had already accomplished her mission or failed it, and then was caught.

It was mentioned that "She carried out her mission and then she thought they would kill her". You find out in the extended Pegasus episode that her mission was to let Centurians onboard and did.

Again, blowing up Galactica wouldn't have stopped the fleet. She would have had to found explosives somewhere, and she was more useful gathering information on the fleet. Blowing up Galactica would have also killed the hybrid baby.

I was talking in first season how even before the attack they had agents on board. No Galactica everyone is screwed.

I don't think Doral expected to be on a surviving ship, so he probably didn't bring explosives with him, as I'm sure there is some sort of method the colonials use to detect explosives like we do at airports. A transponder is effective enough because it lets the Cylons find where the entire fleet is.

He brought a transceiver and put it on CIC. Why? In a later episode after security was super tight he still brought a bomb on board and blew it up right next to Adama and Tigh. Some security.

Remember, the Cylons have blown up some bombs on more critical areas of Galctica before. They one set off a bomb on the hanger deck.

What a waste, they should have done it near the engines or CIC will all the command on board.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by gumby5647 

Hrm. Population back up to 41,000 and change.

That'salota babies in the span of 1 year and four months.

Total change is about 8K. Substituting some guesstimates for the missing figures...

49,550 at beginning of Lay down your burdens, Part 2.
- 7,000 (Cloud 9 explosion)
+ 3,000 (babies born in 17 months)
- 2,915 (lost or left behind in evacuation)
- 1,000 (normal deaths in 17 months)
- 200 (killed during occupation)
= 41,435 at beginning of Collaborators

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

I was really disappointed in Tyrol. What on earth made him go, "Well, I've acknowledged that we have no credible evidence against Gaeta, but I'm going to kill him just because Captain Eyepatch said pretty please"? That seemed really off, both for his general character and his previous actions in the episode. I hope there's some revelation coming that he has bipolar disorder or something.
...

There was evidence. They found the death list with Cally, Roslin, and Zarek on it. The distribution list for it showed that Gaeta had seen it. Gaeta didn't do anything about it, like notify Tyrol. At least, not that anyone knew. Being OK with a death list crossing your desk persuaded Barolay, the Chief, Starbuck, and apparently Tigh. Connor didn't seem to need evidence for a Guilty. Anders passed, and Seelix didn't say enough to indicate why she voted.

Originally Posted by goMac 

...
Remember, the Cylons have blown up some bombs on more critical areas of Galctica before. They once set off a bomb on the hanger deck.

I don't recall them setting off a bomb in the Hanger deck. Boomer (while under remote control or whatever) planted one in her own Raptor, which was found while the Raptor was in the Hanger deck. You may be thinking of the drone explosion in Act Of Contrition. That one was an accident caused by worn equipment.

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

Originally Posted by analogika 

He was part of the insurgency. They bombed market squares and killed innocents.

This was not at all out of character.

Thats a damn good point. They did a lot of bombing themselves. Of their own free will. Killed a lot of innocent people. Maybe someone should shove them out the airlocks.

We got to see Anders and Tyrol bomb a group of Cylons after a heavy raider landed. There were two suicide bombings that we saw, one targeted Cylons and collaborators in the NCP Academy. The other targeted the power station, ultimately killing 23 Cylons and 4 Humans. Tigh implied that they were going to target something in the marketplace, but they didn't do that, and we never knew the specifics.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

... #5 [Doral] put a transponder in CIC before the attack when a bomb would have been better ...

Sometimes I think the Cylons are trying to lead them, other times they are trying to kill them. To me the cylons look really indecisive as they can't seem to decide if they are trying to kill the humans, make peace, staying on Caprica, finding earth etc.

It has never been shown that Doral was the one that placed the transponder in CIC. Baltar framed Doral for it, but Doral never admitted it. All we really know is that it was in CIC for at least a week before it was pointed out.

Concerning the Cylon motivations, I assume that they have multiple motivations. It is also established that at least some Cylon goals have changed over time.

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

So in terms of the Basestar that baltar is on it seems there are only 7 skinjob models onboard.

3 in favor, 3 against, 1 undecided (the 6's).

It's possible that Baseship only had 7 models represented on board. It's also possible that some models abstained from the vote.

Assorted notes.

There was more than one Temple on New Caprica, or the Temple of Artemis was raided more than once. Jammer is convicted for 23 deaths in temple raids, but only 10 people died in the raid shown in The Resistance. Also, Jammer didn't join the NCP until after that raid.

The new Resurrection Ship is now guarded by 5 Baseships. Guess two wasn't enough.

The Colonials sometimes use Stones for a weight measurement. Lee has so far dropped "half a stone" while jumproping. The Colonials use some Imperial measurements for length too. In Armistice Station, freeze the picture when the officer is looking at the Centurion Model 0005 specs. It gives the height in feet and inches. Or at least, in the abbreviated form (6' 4").

Artificial gravity is turned off in the launch tubes when they are activated. Or, it is off in the tube section beyond the outer door. Jammer floated the distance after the outer door.

Grace Park did not appear in this episode, except for the "Previously on BSG" segment. I was hoping to see her run into Tigh. I think she did meet with him in Exodus Part 1, but we didn't get to see it. It would have happened before she spoke with Anders and headed out for the launch keys. I wanted to see how Tigh reacted to her having a valid commission. It might have been interesting, considering how Tigh reacted to meeting Gaeta in CIC.

[Dark Helmet]

Ok here is another disappointing similarity to Deep Space 9. In the second season there was a bunch of Bajorian radicals that were Xenophobic and wanted to rid the planet and DS9 of all foreigners so they committed acts of violence on non-Bajorins. The name of this group.... "The Circle".

The Circle (Star Trek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

3 part episode and important to the theme of the show not just a one time thing.

[selowitch]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ 

Thats a damn good point. They did a lot of bombing themselves. Of their own free will. Killed a lot of innocent people. Maybe someone should shove them out the airlocks.

I don't at all care to open a debate about real-life Earth politics here, but it seems to me that those who undertake actions likely to kill innocents on a limited basis for the sake of survival can sometimes succeed in justifying their actions. On the other hand, those who systematically go on killing innocents long after it is necessary may be defined as terrorists. Where is the line? Hard to say.

At the time, the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem by the Irgun in 1946, was widely condemned as an act of terrorism, yet it helped accelerate the British departure from Palestine, which in turn paved the way for the declaration of the State of Israel. While that doesn't justify the loss of life, the bombing could be viewed as a necessary condition for an essential goal: the formation of a homeland for the Jewish people in their ancestral land in the aftermath of World War II and the Holocaust.

Likewise, the Colonials of BSG did not want to kill fellow humans, even if they were working for the Cylons in their police force. However, if it was the only way to liberate the human race and ensure its survival, then the argument could be made that it was tragically necessary.

BTW, the surprise arrival of Pegasus commanded by Lee Adama and the destruction of those two base stars was completely awesome! I actually found myself wondering for a moment if they would dare to destroy Galactica for real, killing off so many major characters. Of course, they were not ready to do that, but for a minute, I did think it. You had to figure that Pegasus was doomed, given her fate in the original series, and her history of confrontation with Galactica. Also, they had to find a way to reunite Apollo with the elder Adama. Great episode!

[Dark Helmet]

Hey so you wonder if anyone was left behind on new Caprica? If so do you think the Cylons grabbed them or they are just there happily living in the tents?

[MRTrauffer]

Starbuck mentioned in "Collaborators" that there were people left on New Caprica.

However, I think that cince the Cylons had intended on nuking the colony when they left, but didn't, that the people are still there.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by MRTrauffer 

Starbuck mentioned in "Collaborators" that there were people left on New Caprica.

However, I think that cince the Cylons had intended on nuking the colony when they left, but didn't, that the people are still there.

Cool. I hope some collaborators ended up with the cylons and that we will see them again. But their reaction to baltar being on the basestar is pretty strongly negative so I doubt it.

[reader50]

Tigh mentioned that thousands died on New Caprica - I'd assume that was during the evacuation.

Admiral Adama mentioned that thousands were left behind on New Caprica. I think that comment was in reference to how many were unaccounted for afterwards.

No doubt, most died during the evac. Raider strafing, or shooting exchanges with Centurions. And the Cylons pulled out around the same time. I'm thinking that there were a few hundred survivors scattered throughout the city, who may try to pull together and survive on what is left. They might even all fit in the few buildings.

It may be possible for a Raptor to revisit the place at a future point, and get a very unfriendly welcome. The survivors would be people who got knocked out, got lost, got pinned under tents or supplies during the fighting, etc. Or kids who hid until the noise stopped.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Ok here is another disappointing similarity to Deep Space 9. In the second season there was a bunch of Bajorian radicals that were Xenophobic and wanted to rid the planet and DS9 of all foreigners so they committed acts of violence on non-Bajorins. The name of this group.... "The Circle".

The Circle (Star Trek - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia)

...

From context statements, I think the BSG version is actually called "The circle of peers". This might be their informal name for a jury. I got the impression that "The Circle" was an abbreviation rather than a formal title.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by selowitch 

I don't at all care to open a debate about real-life Earth politics here, but it seems to me that those who undertake actions likely to kill innocents on a limited basis for the sake of survival can sometimes succeed in justifying their actions. On the other hand, those who systematically go on killing innocents long after it is necessary may be defined as terrorists. Where is the line? Hard to say.

At the time, the bombing of the King David Hotel in Jerusalem by the Irgun in 1946, was widely condemned as an act of terrorism, yet it helped accelerate the British departure from Palestine, which in turn paved the way for the declaration of the State of Israel. While that doesn't justify the loss of life, the bombing could be viewed as a necessary condition for an essential goal: the formation of a homeland for the Jewish people in their ancestral land in the aftermath of World War II and the Holocaust.

Hindsight is always 20/20, and the ends still don't justify the means if the means were wrong or immoral at the time.

But that's really a thread of its own.

It speaks to the extreme credit of this series, however, that such questions are thrown up, and not necessarily answered - as in the real world.

[Dark Helmet]

Honestly if I was one of the people on new caprica I would immediately convince the Cylons that I want to work for them but I would just do it to leak information to the good guys like Gaita.

When Tigh mentioned they lost thousands I just assumed it was during the 4 month occupation as cylons were executing and detaining people. Obviously some were lost during that big escape, I'm sorta disappointed not even one civilian ship got shot down by raiders.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Obviously some were lost during that big escape, I'm sorta disappointed not even one civilian ship got shot down by raiders.

Exactly - though I enjoyed the episode very much, I thought the whole operation went off too smoothly.

But then again the reasoning is the civilians wouldn't be targeted as the Cylons supposeldy want to save humanity.

Unless they have a creative way of fiddling with the human genetic code, they need as many humans as possible for their own hybrid scheme - whatever it may be.

[reader50]

Vipers were keeping the Raiders busy in the air. Still, the change in population totals suggests around 3K casualties - that is approx 10% of the city's population. There was no mention of mass executions having happened during the occupation, just the Cylons considering starting that. So I figure nearly all the deaths happened during the evac.

Shooting down a couple civilian ships during the evac would cover most of that total. We only got one brief glimse of the civilian ships leaving, hardly conclusive that none were lost. Also, the podcast mentions that civilians are bunked down in Galactica now because they don't have as many civilian ships as before. Even when taking the smaller population into account.

Sounds like they lost some ships along with a lot of people. That would be more realistic. Also, before the occupation, one or more ships may have been stripped for building materials. And I suspect a few hundred people got left in the confusion.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by paul w 

But then again the reasoning is the civilians wouldn't be targeted as the Cylons supposeldy want to save humanity.

That doesn't really explain the nuke they wanted to set off then does it.

[paul w]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

That doesn't really explain the nuke they wanted to set off then does it.

I'm just saying - they're conflicted. Why bother colonizing them at all? They could have finished the human race off easily, yet they chose to occupy New Caprica and deal with the insurgency.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by paul w 

I'm just saying - they're conflicted. Why bother colonizing them at all? They could have finished the human race off easily, yet they chose to occupy New Caprica and deal with the insurgency.

Right but the whole time they considered just nuking it and being done with it. It is a fine line with them.