[goMac]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

I'll be really disappointed if they try to pull an insanity plea with Baltar. That's just weak.
I wonder who's going to act as his lawyer.

We actually already know. It's:

 

Lee Adama

I think Baltar's lawyer is going to go for the best defense he can, and to me right now that seems like it would be insanity. I don't see any other plausible defense. I mean, a lawyer could try arguing he was not directly aiding the Cylons... but after his time on the base ship... and letting Sharon go when he knew she was a Cylon...

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by Lateralus 

Having Adama be a Cylon would ruin the show.

Wording it like that just gave me an idea: what if Dualla were a Cylon? She and Lee are married, and despite their difficulties they're clearly in love. What if Dualla were to become pregnant, eventually giving birth to a hybrid child?

The reason this popped into my head came from an early line from Leoben, when he said to Roslin that "Adama is a Cylon." We know that Bill can't be a Cylon, and Lee seems only slightly less likely. It's entirely possible, perhaps even likely, that Leoben was merely trying to mess with Roslin's head. But what if Leoben wasn't outing an existing Cylon, but prophesying the birth of a new one?

[greenamp]

Honestly, I think all signs point to Helo being a Cylon, and not just any Cylon, but the leader of the final five. If you look closely at his character, he has been the archetype of compassion and dignity. For example, our very 1st encounter with Helo was him giving up his seat on the Raptor in place of Baltar b/c he felt it was for the good of humanity. Then he falls in love with Sharon, and even after knowing she is a Cylon, he remains by her side despite the ridicule he gets from his comrades. Next, we have him turning off the air to the imprisoned Cylons on Galactica b/c he felt it was inhumane to make them suffer through their sicknesses. And finally, in the last episode, we have Helo being the lone side of sympathy to the plight of the Sagetarions, and exposing the civilian doctors true actions, even though he once again had to endure the backlash of the popular opinion.

Seems like every major story arc involving Helo puts him in a position to which he chooses to sacrifice his own wants, beliefs, desires, and even life for the good of something morally greater. To me this suggests a greater identity for the character.

The one problem with my theory is his conceiving a child with Sharon, which, if he were a Cylon, would not be possible by all subjections. Unless maybe b/c he was truly in love with Sharon, and her him, they were able to copulate. Perhaps something about the current Cylon social structure has prevented them from ever really falling in love with another of their kind.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by greenamp 

Honestly, I think all signs point to Helo being a Cylon, and not just any Cylon, but the leader of the final five. If you look closely at his character, he has been the archetype of compassion and dignity.

Just one problem: we already know Athena's a Cylon, and their child is half-human. This means that either Helo is human or he isn't the father.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Just one problem: we already know Athena's a Cylon, and their child is half-human. This means that either Helo is human or he isn't the father.

"The one problem with my theory is his conceiving a child with Sharon, which, if he were a Cylon, would not be possible by all subjections. Unless maybe b/c he was truly in love with Sharon, and her him, they were able to copulate. Perhaps something about the current Cylon social structure has prevented them from ever really falling in love with another of their kind."

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Millennium 

Just one problem: we already know Athena's a Cylon, and their child is half-human. This means that either Helo is human or he isn't the father.

Exactly. I used to be suspect of Helo just because of the way he pretty much gave up his life for Baltar in the pilot which I thought was just a bit too nice and must have been part of a plan.

We KNOW Athena is a Cylon so if the baby is 50/50 Helo is human.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by greenamp 

"The one problem with my theory is his conceiving a child with Sharon, which, if he were a Cylon, would not be possible by all subjections. Unless maybe b/c he was truly in love with Sharon, and her him, they were able to copulate. Perhaps something about the current Cylon social structure has prevented them from ever really falling in love with another of their kind."

The problem here is that Athena's child must be half-human: the residual effects of carrying a half-human child made her immune to the plague.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

Exactly. I used to be suspect of Helo just because of the way he pretty much gave up his life for Baltar in the pilot which I thought was just a bit too nice and must have been part of a plan.

We KNOW Athena is a Cylon so if the baby is 50/50 Helo is human.

This is off topic, but isn't the term 50/50 mathmatically = 100%? (Purely semantics I know, but when I read it, it looked funny)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Chances of being a Cylon.

Felix Gaeta Possible, but he served with Adama 3 years before the attack. So far, we only know of Cylons infiltrating the colonies 2 years before the attack.
Adm Adama Zip. He was in the first Cylon war, long before the humanoid Cylons were created.
Col Tigh Zip. In the first Cylon war too.
Laura Roslin Zip. Was in politics 20 years before the attack, with President Adar's campaign from the Caprica City Mayor's office. Was a teacher before that.
Sam Anders Very low. Caught pneumonia. Verified by Doc Cottle. Anders would need to be faking it, and Cottle would have to be covering too, which would require both to be Cylons.
Apollo Zip. Son of someone who can't be a Cylon. Also, was present on the sick BaseShip, and didn't get sick. It's established that Cylons have no immunity unless they've been pregnant with a hybrid baby. Lee has not been pregnant at any point since the sex change operation.
Starbuck Low chance. Was in a realationship with Zak that ended two years before the attack. Relationship had to start earlier, and was a Viper flight instructor before the relationship started, which requires more fleet history before that.

These statements all assume the final five are like regular Cylons.

There's nothing to say that the final five weren't in the colonies before the other Cylons infiltrated the colonies. The final five seem to be completely independent from the Cylons.

Personally, I think the final five will be people indirectly nudging events along. I think Baltar-in-Six's-head and Six-in-Baltar's-head are two of the final five. I also don't think there will be any "sleepers" from the final five

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by SirCastor 

This is off topic, but isn't the term 50/50 mathmatically = 100%? (Purely semantics I know, but when I read it, it looked funny)

And since Athena is presumably 100% of herself, that actually works out right.

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by Chuckit 

And since Athena is presumably 100% of herself, that actually works out right.

Yes... but we're talking about Hera (who is also 100% of herself.)

[Chuckit]

Eh, whichever Greek goddess it is. You know how them deity chicks are.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I noticed how Head Baltar doesn't refer to real Baltar as "me" but rather "Him" like when he said "You are here to rescue HIM".

Head Six also seems to get jealous of real six and also calls her "she" or "her" so it seems they are a totally different person.

The only inconstancy was in the Pilot when Head Six said to Baltar "Perhaps I planted a chip in your head while you were sleeping" so at the time she implied that she was the same person as Caprica Six.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

I noticed how Head Baltar doesn't refer to real Baltar as "me" but rather "Him" like when he said "You are here to rescue HIM".

Head Six also seems to get jealous of real six and also calls her "she" or "her" so it seems they are a totally different person.

The only inconstancy was in the Pilot when Head Six said to Baltar "Perhaps I planted a chip in your head while you were sleeping" so at the time she implied that she was the same person as Caprica Six.

It seems like the hallucinations view themselves as a continuation of the people that were on Caprica, but not the same as the real people who exist now. Very Zen.

[reader50]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

I noticed how Head Baltar doesn't refer to real Baltar as "me" but rather "Him" like when he said "You are here to rescue HIM".
...

I heard that phrase too. Your interpretation probably makes more sense. I'd heard it as "You are here to rescue THEM" - ie, Caprica hadn't done so well at rescuing the Cylons from error, so she'd come to rescue the poor Humans.

Supporting thoughts: at the time Caprica left the Baseship with Athena, it wasn't clear that Baltar would end up with the Colonials. He hadn't been captured yet, the star hadn't gone nova yet (forcing the Cylon retreat) and the Cylons had two heavy Raiders landed on the planet vs the Colonials having one Raptor on the planet. Odds at that time would seem to favor everyone coming back in the Raiders, as passengers or prisoners.

So I'm pretty sure Caprica decided to jump ships independant of Baltar's later whereabouts. Rescuing him might be one of her concerns now, but that wasn't the reason she started out with for going to Galactica.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I think we need to think about D'Anna's sketch of the final 5 some more as it says a lot:



In that image it clearly shows the final 5 standing over a bunch of smaller figures. You can interpret the dark figures as Cylons standing around resurrection tanks. The final 5 are represented as parent like figures as they are standing over them and look content. Kinda like how man made Cylons and then the Cylons fought back.

In another sketch which I can't find it showed the 5 at the BOTTOM of the sketch screaming and dark with the dark figures over them looking like they were overruling them.

"According to Colonial scriptures, "Five pillars of the temple were fashioned after the five priests devoted to the one whose name cannot be spoken"

Why would a temple for human usage have a temple that is devoted to a single God when the humans worship more than one god? They also don't say "God" but "the one who's name cannot be spoken" which is odd.

More importantly how could a 1000 year old temple have any sort of information on 5 cylons? Why would it also point towards earth?

Why would these 5 Cylons/priests be worshiping someone's name they can't mention? Why can't they mention him? Also why does head 6 always say "Knowing the face of god is to know madness"?

I still believe whoever these final 5 are they are very very old. There might have been a battle during the first exodus because there were two different religious followings each worshiping who they consider God.

I'm starting to think that Head 6 might be one of these Gods masquerading as her to manipulate things to his/her benefit. On the other side Head Baltar might be the other god doing the same but for their benefit.

The timing of the visions is also strange though as they only started to show AFTER the attack when it looked like Baltar died in the house and AFTER 6 was resurrected for the first time. It could also be the Head alter-ego's are being controlled by the final 5 as they live "In the place between life and death" and could have infiltrated them when they were dead or close to it.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker 

I think we need to think about D'Anna's sketch of the final 5 some more as it says a lot: