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Get me a xerox of that stat. (Page 2)
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dav
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May 13, 2004, 03:25 PM
 
Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
Haha! That reminds me of this show I saw where they had an elephant paint with it's truck. They then showed this "art" to several "art critics" and the majority of them thought it was very good, and had all these opinions about what the "artist" was trying to express. Well, they then told the "critics" that it was actually a bunch of nonsense scribbled on paper by an elephant... the "critics" didn't have much to say about that. Red faces all around.

I am a musician, and music critic, and I would surely know if something I was listening to was created by an animal or not....

I'm not really sure what that says, but I find it interesting that "art" is so vague, that critics can't even tell if it's legit or not. That scares me.

-Ryan
besides responding to something with personal preferences (i like it, i don't like it), i don't believe one can critique art without knowing the artist's intent. the elephant painting could very well be art, if the artist's intent was to force an elephant to paint, or the elephant had some intent to create art. an elephant accidently getting paint on a canvas isn't art unless another party proclaims it to be - casting their intent for this item to be art.

well, in my opinion anyway.
     
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May 13, 2004, 04:14 PM
 
Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
Haha! That reminds me of this show I saw where they had an elephant paint with it's truck. They then showed this "art" to several "art critics" and the majority of them thought it was very good, and had all these opinions about what the "artist" was trying to express. Well, they then told the "critics" that it was actually a bunch of nonsense scribbled on paper by an elephant... the "critics" didn't have much to say about that. Red faces all around.

I am a musician, and music critic, and I would surely know if something I was listening to was created by an animal or not....

I'm not really sure what that says, but I find it interesting that "art" is so vague, that critics can't even tell if it's legit or not. That scares me.

-Ryan
Again, you're confusing execution with intent.

A tiny black dot on a big white canvas can indeed be art even though pretty much everybody in this forum could replicate it, given the tools needed for the job.

The 'elephant test' you describe above is entirely meaningless for exactly the same reasons.
     
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May 13, 2004, 04:26 PM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
The 'elephant test' you describe above is entirely meaningless for exactly the same reasons.
you and your friggin' elephants...
"Have sharp knives. Be creative. Cook to music" ~ maxelson
     
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May 13, 2004, 04:32 PM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
Again, you're confusing execution with intent.

A tiny black dot on a big white canvas can indeed be art even though pretty much everybody in this forum could replicate it, given the tools needed for the job.

The 'elephant test' you describe above is entirely meaningless for exactly the same reasons.
Huh? I honestly have no idea what point you are making....

All I'm saying is it's scary that so called "critics" can't tell the difference between real "art" and an elephant's scribles.

To me, "art" has been given too broad of a range these days... I mean, really, anything can be "art" if you say so. Sneeze in a Kleenex... that's art!

-Ryan
800mhz 15" Flat Panel iMac G4, 32mb GeForce2MX, OS X (10.3), Maxtor 120gb & 250gb FireWire HDs, FireWire Zip 250, iSight
     
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May 13, 2004, 04:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
Huh? I honestly have no idea what point you are making....

All I'm saying is it's scary that so called "critics" can't tell the difference between real "art" and an elephant's scribles.

That's my entire point - you're confusing execution with intent. You also appear to be confusing art with craftsmanship. An easy mistake to make.
     
Xeo
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May 13, 2004, 04:54 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:

No, I think I choose my words correctly. Someone thinking their opinion in better because they feel they have a higher "ideal" of art than another person. Esp when they have no idea what the other person know about art. Falsely propping up their own "Art coolness"

pre�ten�tious __ _P___Pronunciation Key__(pr-tnshs)
adj.
Claiming or demanding a position of distinction or merit, especially when unjustified.


So yes, it's of my opinion that I used the word correctly. [/b]
Eh, using the word pretentious to describe the art is completely valid. It's just an opinion. It sounds more that you're twisting the meaning of the word to apply to people's reaction to your opinion. "Someone thinking their opinion in better because they feel they have a higher "ideal" of art than another person" is arrogant, not pretentious. They aren't demanding merit, they are demanding superiority over you. It's not a good thing, it's just not pretentious.

But, you're welcome to use the word however you see fit.

I believe it was. You know, I wasn't the ONLY person to say it either. There is nothing wrong with giving an opinion about Art.
I completely agree.

Oh, I think it's neat. But I feel that to call it "art" is a bit pretentious. AKA giving it a status it doesn't deserve. And that is my opinion. People post these things. Then get OUTRAGED when someone has a different opinion about it other than their own. Then call them names because they don't feel their "Art awareness" is as "High up" as theirs. And that indeed is pretentious.
Ah, for people to call it art might be pretentious, but for them to act like their opinions are better is arrogant. I completely understand your point, I just thought you used pretentious as the defining word for more than it covered, although it clearly has a spot in your argument.
     
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May 13, 2004, 07:36 PM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
Kevin:

1. I am not upset. You're the one honking and hissing in this thread, not me.

Huh? How is my giving my opinion, and others belittling me for it me hissing and honking?

2. Yes, I can, and I do, say that my opinion counts more than yours in this instance. Because I know what I am talking about and you clearly don't. Go away, study for a couple of years, come back when you've got a clue.
More pretentiousness. Or as XEO would say "arrogance"

I've been into art since grade school. I used to participate in comps in Jr High, High School and College.

I used to take 2 or 3 classes per year when I was in College.

Now you might want to get that foot out of your mouth.

Just because you like one type of art, doesn't mean everyone else that knows about art has to like it too.

Get a grip.
     
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May 13, 2004, 07:48 PM
 
Originally posted by sixz:
IIf man can stop for a second from
either wanking or trying to destroy stuff and actually make
something -that is not pretentious.
I think this says more about the daily struggle you have with yourself.
     
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May 13, 2004, 08:51 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Not because it was made on a copier. But because it doesn't inspire me.
There it is kids, to declare something "art" it must be first run by Zimphire. If he's not inspired, it's crap.

1.25ghz 15" PowerBook
     
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May 13, 2004, 08:59 PM
 
Originally posted by Chemmy:
There it is kids, to declare something "art" it must be first run by Zimphire. If he's not inspired, it's crap.
BZZT I never said it wasn't ART.

Go back. Try again.

Your are teh lose.
     
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May 13, 2004, 09:32 PM
 
This thread is now pretentious. Discuss.
     
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May 13, 2004, 11:55 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Your are teh lose.
Wow! That's hilarious!

Go back to 2001, when "teh" was at least fresh.

1.25ghz 15" PowerBook
     
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May 13, 2004, 11:56 PM
 
Originally posted by Chemmy:
Wow! That's fresh.
Thanks.
     
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May 14, 2004, 01:04 AM
 
     
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May 14, 2004, 08:33 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Then there is the 16th Chapel.
Do you mean the Sistine Chapel?
Just who are Britain? What do they? Who is them? And why?

Formerly Black Book
     
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May 14, 2004, 09:38 AM
 
Actually I meant to say Sistine Chaple and 16th-Century Renaissance Art. It go jumbled.
     
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May 14, 2004, 09:42 AM
 
Whatever it is, it's interesting.
     
sixz  (op)
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May 14, 2004, 09:53 AM
 
Originally posted by Black Book:
Do you mean the Sistine Chapel?

16 Chapel ;)


frescoed by 'mic hell angel low'.

Greatest religious iconic work ever
produced - painted by a gay man -
who will be burning in agony and
torment in hell as we speak.
Very profound.

'16 Chapel' Hehe...
     
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May 14, 2004, 12:07 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Actually I meant to say Sistine Chaple and 16th-Century Renaissance Art. It go jumbled.
Interesting. I thought you knew that the Sistine Chapel is also commonly called the Sixteenth Chapel.

1.25ghz 15" PowerBook
     
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May 14, 2004, 12:11 PM
 
Originally posted by Chemmy:
Interesting. I thought you knew that the Sistine Chapel is also commonly called the Sixteenth Chapel.
What came out came out of a mixture of thinking of 16th century Renaissance Art while trying to type "Sistine". And yes, it's called the "Sixteenth Chapel"

My guess is, they are making fun of me for using the number "16" and NOT "sixteenth"

Who knows. It's all petty.

My message is still the same non-the-less.

(Edit) After reading their "busting" it reads as if they didn't know about it being named that.

*snort*

I figured it was my usage of "16" and not "sixteenth"
     
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May 14, 2004, 12:14 PM
 
Actually - I've never heard of it being called the 'Sixteenth Chapel' before, so I was just wondering what you meant.

So not petty at all...
Just who are Britain? What do they? Who is them? And why?

Formerly Black Book
     
sixz  (op)
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May 14, 2004, 12:15 PM
 
Muddy your waters you do-do.
     
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May 14, 2004, 12:17 PM
 
Originally posted by Black Book:
Actually - I've never heard of it being called the 'Sixteenth Chapel' before, so I was just wondering what you meant.

Ah, I apologize.

So not petty at all...
No not YOUR post. I think sixz need to brush up on his searching skills.

Got that sixz?

How does foot taste like?

Originally posted by sixz:
Agreed, it was so stupid that I looked it up and
still couldn't figure out what you were spouting
on about. Thought it must have been some obscure
mystical cult you worship. But when it was explained
and the ceiling to your artistic knowledge was shown
to me -

Hehe - 16 chapel.

Remember I like a good pun as much as anyone else.
( 45,B9,6Z )
And a good pun you did make. I am sure many are laughing.

Including me.
     
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May 14, 2004, 12:22 PM
 
Originally posted by sixz:
Muddy your waters you do-do.
That doesn't sound like an apology for being wrong to me.

Go back, try again.
     
Xeo
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May 14, 2004, 12:50 PM
 
Originally posted by Chemmy:
Interesting. I thought you knew that the Sistine Chapel is also commonly called the Sixteenth Chapel.
I'm sorry. Who calls it the sixteenth chapel? Is it common because the general public is stupid? Or because it actually is the 16th chapel of some number of chapels? Or what?
     
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May 14, 2004, 12:56 PM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
I'm sorry. Who calls it the sixteenth chapel? Is it common because the general public is stupid? Or because it actually is the 16th chapel of some number of chapels? Or what?
I think it has to do with the century a lot of the artist decorated in.

That isn't the official name, but a "nickname"
     
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May 14, 2004, 01:01 PM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
I'm sorry. Who calls it the sixteenth chapel? Is it common because the general public is stupid? Or because it actually is the 16th chapel of some number of chapels? Or what?
Well, since I'm now a bit curious about who actually calls it that, I had a quick (not extensive) spell on Google, and it seems the top hit is for a site calling it the Sixteenth Chapel in it's title, but then nowhere else. There's then a more interesting site on it being a malapropism (I'd ask Oisin to explain that )

So, I think it's just people hearing it wrong, and so not knowing it's actual name, but i don't know...
Just who are Britain? What do they? Who is them? And why?

Formerly Black Book
     
Xeo
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May 14, 2004, 01:07 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
I think it has to do with the century a lot of the artist decorated in.

That isn't the official name, but a "nickname"
Sounds more like a nickname given to people who hear it and then repeat it. Hearing it in passing, you'd assume "sixteenth" for which your mind already has a meaning, instead of "sistine" for which your mind has never heard before.

So, IMO, it's simply a misnomer given by the ignorant.
     
sixz  (op)
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May 14, 2004, 01:09 PM
 
Zimpley always muddying his waters...

16 Chapel:
http://www.google.com/search?q=16+ch...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

sixteenth chapel:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&i...hapel.&spell=1


If you think it's the sixteenth chapel it's not it's the Sistine Chapel
http://library.thinkquest.org/J00307....htm?tqskip1=1
     
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May 14, 2004, 01:43 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
I think it has to do with the century a lot of the artist decorated in.

That isn't the official name, but a "nickname"

Bollox.

Nobody, but absolutely nobody, calls the Cappella Sistina, the
Sistine Chapel the 16th chapel. Well, nobody in their right mind that is.

It's not a nickname, it's just plain ignorance and utter, utter stupidity.
     
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May 14, 2004, 04:38 PM
 
Originally posted by sixz:
Zimpley always muddying his waters...

16 Chapel:
http://www.google.com/search?q=16+ch...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Speaking of muddying waters. You mean

http://www.google.com/search?num=30&...pel%22&spell=1

Yes, it is the Sistine Chapel. No one is arguing that.

It is still called the 16th Chapel also. Not because of mis-hearing.
( Last edited by Zimphire; May 14, 2004 at 04:49 PM. )
     
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May 14, 2004, 04:39 PM
 
Originally posted by Mastrap:
Bollox.

Nobody, but absolutely nobody, calls the Cappella Sistina, the
Sistine Chapel the 16th chapel. Well, nobody in their right mind that is.

It's not a nickname, it's just plain ignorance and utter, utter stupidity.
Yes, yes they do. You are just upset you had to eat your foot.
     
sixz  (op)
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May 14, 2004, 05:11 PM
 
...and in your book that's proof is it. Must be you have
a very low tolerance for authentication when smitten
by blind superstitious faith that's so obviously tied to
your ego.

We all fail sometimes, It is human - we forgive you,
and apart from '16 chapel' staying in my SIG for a while -
I will not rub your nose in it anymore, if you will
just let it die.
     
Xeo
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May 14, 2004, 05:33 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
It is still called the 16th Chapel also. Not because of mis-hearing.
Why then? Why is it? Why is that a nickname?
     
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May 14, 2004, 06:16 PM
 
Wow, does it really matter!?

I call it da 15 plus 1 Chapel

-Ryan
800mhz 15" Flat Panel iMac G4, 32mb GeForce2MX, OS X (10.3), Maxtor 120gb & 250gb FireWire HDs, FireWire Zip 250, iSight
     
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May 14, 2004, 08:02 PM
 
Originally posted by sixz:
...and your book Must be
very smitten by faith
Indeed.
     
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May 14, 2004, 08:02 PM
 
Originally posted by Ryan Becker:
Wow, does it really matter!?

I call it da 15 plus 1 Chapel

-Ryan
Because I called that "art" pretentious.

THEY WILL SHOW ME!!

Not that i haven't explained it 3 times why I said "16th" (Didn't mean 16th)

But the facts still remains..

[url=http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1541/october_31_1541_34015.html[Ignorance?[/url]

Or how about this one?

http://www.atrifleofthis.com/almanac...october_31.htm

1541 Michelangelo Buonarroti's paints "last judgement" in 16th Chapel

OR

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24175

"Eventually Michelangelo One Of Those Artists Of The 15th Century In
Italy , Drew God As An Old Man On The Ceiling Of His Sistine Or 16th Chapel"

http://muhammadfarms.com/Sessions_204-240.htm

THE 16th Chapel...

And more..
http://www.otterson-bg.co.uk/tour/tour1.htm

I expect the naysayers go to all those sites and berate those using said nickname.

( Last edited by Zimphire; May 14, 2004 at 08:10 PM. )
     
Xeo
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May 14, 2004, 10:27 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
Because I called that "art" pretentious.

THEY WILL SHOW ME!!

Not that i haven't explained it 3 times why I said "16th" (Didn't mean 16th)

But the facts still remains..

[url=http://www.brainyhistory.com/events/1541/october_31_1541_34015.html[Ignorance?[/url]

Or how about this one?

http://www.atrifleofthis.com/almanac...october_31.htm

1541 Michelangelo Buonarroti's paints "last judgement" in 16th Chapel

OR

http://www.theologyweb.com/forum/showthread.php?t=24175

"Eventually Michelangelo One Of Those Artists Of The 15th Century In
Italy , Drew God As An Old Man On The Ceiling Of His Sistine Or 16th Chapel"

http://muhammadfarms.com/Sessions_204-240.htm

THE 16th Chapel...

And more..
http://www.otterson-bg.co.uk/tour/tour1.htm

I expect the naysayers go to all those sites and berate those using said nickname.

OMG. You gave 4 links. 1 is an archive to a message from some random location. 1 is a post on some random forum. 1 is "brainyhistory.com" which gives a specific date that Michelangelo painted the Last Judgement as if it took one day. And your final, crushing link refers to "the remnants of a 16th chapel" from a TOUR OF SCOTLAND PAGE! OMG Zimp, you're are an idiot. Yes, personal attack and all that. You're just dumb. IT IS NOT A NICKNAME. IT IS WHAT PEOPLE CALL IT WHO DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER.

Please, show me more links that prove the Sistine Chapel is in Scotland.

Of course, if you were trying to make a joke, and that will no doubt be your retort, then you did a damn good job 'cause I laughed my ass off at that.
     
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May 14, 2004, 10:33 PM
 
I suppose when you convince yourself daily of certain falsehoods, it just becomes easier and easier.

Mystical, magical, amazing! | Part 2 | The spread of Christianity is our goal. -Railroader
     
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May 14, 2004, 10:33 PM
 
But when I was in college, I had professors that would Say "The Sistine aka 16th" all the time. Whether or not it came from "error" or "tradition" I have no idea. But it IS a nickname for it. I always wondered about that too. I just figured since the 16th century artwork is always being talked about when it comes to the Sisntine Chapel, that is why they are put together. Which DOES make sense.

Originally posted by Xeo:
Zimp, you're are an idiot. Yes, personal attack and all that. You're just dumb. IT IS NOT A NICKNAME. IT IS WHAT PEOPLE CALL IT WHO DON'T KNOW ANY BETTER.
You should be showing an example. You shouldn't be adding to the crap in the lounge.

You want to discuss this fine.

But there is no need to personal attack.

I promise I wont call you an idiot.

I understand though, I was once a angry young man too.

If you are calling me an idiot for something I learned in college. So be it. I agree, most college professors don't know what they are talking about.

But I'd never go into a rage and call them names. That would be petty. Especially not about something as trivial as this.

And Xeo I was joking about the links. Hence the
( Last edited by Zimphire; May 14, 2004 at 10:46 PM. )
     
Xeo
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May 14, 2004, 10:45 PM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
But when I was in college, I had professors that would Say "The Sistine aka 16th" all the time. Whether or not it came from "error" or "tradition" I have no idea. But it IS a nickname for it.
Hey, another fact from your past from which no one can confirm nor deny! Got any more family members growing limbs from stumps?

And Xeo I was joking about the links. Hence the
You put a smily in EVERY post so that you can easily say "it was a joke" when you can't defend it any longer.

You're "joke" was about the nay-sayers, of which I am one. I will always be one on this issue.

edit: And I rarely state my opinion of someone as harshly as that, but I'm sick of giving you the benefit of the doubt. That is my opinion of you. Deal with it.
     
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May 14, 2004, 10:48 PM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
Hey, another fact from your past from which no one can confirm nor deny! Got any more family members growing limbs from stumps?

Why are you so hateful acting? I don't care if you don't believe me. It doesn't effect my life one iota.

You put a smily in EVERY post so that you can easily say "it was a joke" when you can't defend it any longer.
No, I just happen to joke a lot. I don't feel that sitting across for me screen with a vein popping in my forehead to be very healthy.

You're "joke" was about the nay-sayers, of which I am one. I will always be one on this issue.
I just saying, you should be showing an example.

If you have a personal issue with me (it seems as if you do) you should be private messaging me about it, or just put me on ignore.
     
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May 15, 2004, 12:14 AM
 
Originally posted by Xeo:
[B]Please, show me more links that prove the Sistine Chapel is in Scotland./B]
Its quite possible, there's loads of churches and old stuff there.
     
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May 15, 2004, 01:08 AM
 
Originally posted by Zimphire:
But when I was in college, I had professors that would Say "The Sistine aka 16th" all the time. Whether or not it came from "error" or "tradition" I have no idea. But it IS a nickname for it. I always wondered about that too. I just figured since the 16th century artwork is always being talked about when it comes to the Sisntine Chapel, that is why they are put together. Which DOES make sense.

It is not a nickname. No professor, art or otherwise, would ever, ever, ever call it the 16th. I know this Kevin because I have got a BA in art and art history. Unless of course the professors you're quoting were all related to the woman who told you she had to wear nappies because she had had too much anal sex. Another Kevin Klassic if I remember correctly.

You're making this up because you made a silly mistake and now don't have the grace to admit it. Which makes you not only an idiot, as so aptly pointed out by Xeo, it makes you pathetic, Kevin. A laughing stock. A total, utter dimwit.


Oh, and of course.
     
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May 15, 2004, 01:52 AM
 
In other words. Mastrap is still mad that he stuck his foot in his mouth.

Keep pounding that chest like a gorilla.



Oh, and just because YOU have never heard a professor say that, doesn't mean one has not.

Because indeed he did. Your logic fails you.

That is like me saying "I HAVE A BA IN DESIGN, AND NOT ONE PROFESSOR HAS EVER SAID "BANANA"

That is ALSO pretension. As if you having a BA in art at one college, automatically means that no Professor has said that.

That is indeed Silly.

I am SURE it's just a coincidence said art was designed in the 16th century. It would be absurd for someone talking about the Sistine Chapel's artwork refer to it as such. I mean that makes no sense right?
     
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Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
May 15, 2004, 01:53 AM
 
BTW it's official.



I really need to make a "This thread has been officially labeled "Petty and Hateful"

But this will do.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Sep 2001
Status: Offline
May 15, 2004, 01:55 AM
 
Zimphired!

('Hood, get on that. Trog Dor. "Zimphired." This must be done.)
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Frickersville
Status: Offline
May 15, 2004, 01:56 AM
 
for all intensive purposes I think we should all go to the sixteenth chapel and drink some ice tea

Mystical, magical, amazing! | Part 2 | The spread of Christianity is our goal. -Railroader
     
Baninated
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: The Moon
Status: Offline
May 15, 2004, 01:58 AM
 
Originally posted by MindFad:
Zimphired!

('Hood, get on that. Trog Dor. "Zimphired." This must be done.)
Yes, because I was the one that derailed the thread with pettiness about me saying "16th Chapel"

That ALMOST didn't work MindFad.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Sep 2001
Status: Offline
May 15, 2004, 01:58 AM
 
It's "intents and purposes."

I would visit the Sistine, but it's utterly pretentious.
     
 
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