[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

I have always wondered what my rights are when a security alarm goes off when leaving a store.

The damn things always go off on me for some reason, sometimes when I don't have a damn thing on me. Other times the employees didn't scan it properly to take the alarm thing off.

When the alarm goes off I usually turn around and let them go through my things. Other times I am so unhappy about letting them go through all my bags just to prove I don't have any of their crap on me.

I noticed that some stores make you check your bags at the door or even stupid Wal-Mart tapes the top of your bags shut with a sticker. I think that is going totally overboard.

What are my rights when these alarms go off? Do I HAVE to turn around and allow them to go through my bags? Don't they have to see me taking something before they can hold me?

Do they have a right to make me check my bags when I walk in?

[ThinkInsane]

I don't know what the rules are in Canada, but you are entering private property, even if it is private property open to the public, so the proprietors have a right to take reasonable precautions to protect their property. I don't believe they have a legal right to go through your bags when you set the alarm off, but if you refuse, which is your right, they have the legal ability to detain you and await the police to do it. Ever see how fast cops respond to a shop lifting call? It's a pretty low priority. But, in the state of new york, they can only detain you for 30 minutes. If the cops don't arrive by then, they can't hold you any longer. I can think of better ways to spend my time than listening to some sweaty 'store detective' talk tough about how I'm going to prison if they find a pack of gum or some other foolishness, well waiting for a real cop to show up.

Once, in my younger days, I found one of those little plastic stick on gizmos on the floor of a store in the mall. I slipped it under the collar of my girlfriends jacket. She walked around all day setting the alarms off in every store we went into. That's what she gets for making me go Christmas shopping before December 20th. I showed her.

[Spliffdaddy]

Yes, they have a right to search/retain any bags you carry onto the premises. You can refuse to submit to a search, but you'll probably be denied entry.

Just keep walking if the alarm sounds upon exiting the store. I do it *all the time*. If they want to wrestle me to the ground and detain me, they're gonna get sued. They won't have proof that any crime was committed - no video or eyewitnesses - because I don't steal.

Twice (both times at Wal-Mart), I've been followed to my pickup truck and my license plate number written down. Never heard from anybody. Typically, the alarm will sound, I keep walking, and absolutely nobody cares.

I hate BestBuy, so every now and then I'll pay for my purchase and *sprint* away from the register and out the door - in a big hurry. This never fails to get the attention of the security bozo standing near the exit. Probably raises his blood pressure a hundred points. While it appears I've done something 'wrong' because I'm in a big hurry to get out - the poor security guy can only watch me leave.

I hate being treated like a criminal by default. So I pretend to be exactly what they expected me to be.

So far it's been nothing but entertaining. Maybe in the future it'll make me a wealthy lawsuit winner.

[cszar2001]

I usually turn around and let them scan the damn thing again.
Once it didn`t work even after repeated tries and I walked out of there with the alarm ringing.
If they want to search you they have to call in the police anyway (as far as I know).
The alarms are set of by a lot of different things - not just their own labels.

[dtriska]

I'm not a lawyer, but my guesses are:

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Do I HAVE to turn around and allow them to go through my bags?

I'd say no, you don't have to, but then again they don't have to let you leave if you're suspected of shoplifting (the detention must be within reason, of course). It's probably a lot easier to simply show them the receipt for what's in the bag, as most employees don't want to deal with the hassle anyway (most will look at the receipt for a second and then wave you through the doors, alarm or no alarm).

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Don't they have to see me taking something before they can hold me?

No. They can't arbitrarily search you, but since the alarm went off, there's now suspicion. The alarm would be pretty pointless if the store couldn't do anything to people who set it off.

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Do they have a right to make me check my bags when I walk in?

No. You can refuse the bag tape at Wal-Mart. I always do. Of course, the store could institute a strict policy of no outside bags in the store, but they'd alienate a lot of customers by doing so.

[dtriska]

Originally posted by cszar2001:
If they want to search you they have to call in the police anyway (as far as I know).

I don't know the particular situation in the US, but this is not true in Canada.

I have a friend who is a loss prevention officer for Wal-Mart, and he can search and arrest just like any other law enforcement officer (at least, in regards to shoplifting and other "store-related" crimes). He has a "holding area" with his office, carries handcuffs around, and has broken bones of fleeing (professional) shoplifters.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by dtriska:
I don't know the particular situation in the US, but this is not true in Canada.

I have a friend who is a loss prevention officer for Wal-Mart, and he can search and arrest just like any other law enforcement officer (at least, in regards to shoplifting and other "store-related" crimes). He has a "holding area" with his office, carries handcuffs around, and has broken bones of fleeing (professional) shoplifters.

Ya but that is if they SAW you take something. If they take you to the back and they are wrong you can sue them for false arrest.

[Spliffdaddy]

They have to witness the shoplifting - suspecting it is not good enough.

Once shoplifting is witnessed, the witness must maintain constant observation of the suspect - lest he place the item back on the shelf, unobserved.

That being said, concealing merchandise is generally the same as shoplifting. Same with swapping/altering pricetags.

Laws, no doubt, vary from country to country and all localities in between.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Ya but that is if they SAW you take something. If they take you to the back and they are wrong you can sue them for false arrest.

even on a false arrest you might not be able to sue them successfully because chances are they will hire the best lawyers that will win even if it is unjust, for example if they get a salesperson to testify against you the store suddenly has an advantage that may seal the deal for them. The justice system only works if everyone is honest or the truth is found out.

[demograph68]

I'd settle with letting them search me, as long as as they don't ask me to "open up."

[kupan787]

Kind of a similar situation, but if anyone of you has been to Frys (do they exist outside of California?), you know that they have a door checker that goes down your receipt and checks out your bag. These people post up at the door, and everyone will get in a line to let them go through their receipt. Here is the catch (my friend worked at Frys, and told me this). Legally they can't force you to show your receipt, and they can't go through your bag without your consent. Hence they ask for your receipt, and you can say no and they can't do anything. So you have the right just to walk right by them, and go to your car (heck, I do it all the time, and get strange looks from other customers waiting in the line to go out). Sure, once you step outside (leaving the stores premise), they could stop you and say they have "probable cause" to chcek out your bag, but it likely wont ever happen.

[Lancer409]

lol .. alarms suck because something desensitized at one store may be considered sensitized at another

[sideus]

I've set them off multiple times. I just keep on walking. I know I didn't steal anything and it is not my fault the store didn't deactivate the security tags.

[phoenixboy70]

i ususally just walk away. if they're friendly about, i'll usually just tell them that their alarm system isn't working properly. if they try to stop me, or grab me, a swift kick to the face usually does the trick.

i don't know what the laws are in canada, but in germany they can only "stand in your way", if you don't cooperate. they can't (legally) detain or physically stop you.

[DigitalEl]

even on a false arrest you might not be able to sue them successfully because chances are they will hire the best lawyers that will win even if it is unjust

Not to mention, any major retailer will have lawyers on retainer and at their disposal 24/7. It would cost you more in $$$ and hassle than it's worth just to stop and show your receipt.

Furthermore, I simply choose not to patronize stores that want to see your receipt and check your bags on the way out. Sam's Club is the first place I saw this, but even K mart does it now. Of course, avoiding <anti-Wal*Mart thread derailer deleted>.

[Gankdawg]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:

I hate being treated like a criminal by default.

Like at Costco.....they check your receipt. What exactly am I going to steal between the registers and the door? The hot tub? The house siding? The coke machine? Nothing aggravates me more than to have a line to exit a store. If they don't have enough personnel checking receipts, I just stroll right on past everyone.

[andi*pandi]

If I were exiting a store and the alarm went off, I'd likely go back. Why? Chances are they left one of those obnoxious plastic things on, and if I got home I'd not be able to get that off, so I'd have to go all the way the hell back in. PITA.

If the alarm went off when I left and I hadn't bought anything, I'd be more likely to keep walking. Of course you get disconcerted by the alarm, so sometimes I've done the 360 turn wheres-that-coming-from-is-it-me thing.

I hate having my bags checked in stores, but no one's asked me to do that in a long time.

ROFL Spliffdaddy. I can just picture you doing that too.

[MilkmanDan]

As someone who has worked in retail for a while, I always had my managers tell me that we could not legally ask someone to open their bags and show us if they had stuff stowed away there. If we saw them take something, that is one thing, but the alarm going off is no grounds for us to search them.

Plus most places would be a lot happier with someone walking away with $10 worth of product, then an employee getting into a fight with a customer. Not worth the lawsuit or the workers comp. Overzealous store employees are bad news in general, and are a liability risk to the store.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally posted by Gankdawg:


Like at Costco.....they check your receipt. What exactly am I going to steal between the registers and the door? The hot tub? The house siding? The coke machine? Nothing aggravates me more than to have a line to exit a store. If they don't have enough personnel checking receipts, I just stroll right on past everyone.

They don't trust their own check-out clerks. After all, you might be friends with the clerk...who conveniently forgets to charge you for all the items.

Remember, you are a potential criminal - not a customer - from a store's point of view.

[Wiskedjak]

If I set an alarm off, usually I'll stop at the entrance and wait for them to come to me. If I don't see anyone making the effort, I'll just leave.

[Demonhood]

Originally posted by Gankdawg:
Like at Costco.....they check your receipt. What exactly am I going to steal between the registers and the door? The hot tub? The house siding? The coke machine? Nothing aggravates me more than to have a line to exit a store. If they don't have enough personnel checking receipts, I just stroll right on past everyone.

i believe having the ability to check your receipt/cart is in the contract for Costco. it's a club you have to join, so you're agreeing to let them do this search, otherwise they'd revoke your membership.

but, as someone else said, places like Frys, Best Buy, and CompUSA sometimes do this. they aren't clubs. you didn't sign anything going into the store. i've always just walked right past the employee at the door. they open their mouth to protest sometimes, but if you walk with purpose, they generally won't bug you. it's not worth the hassle. which is the same reason i don't stop.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
I hate BestBuy, so every now and then I'll pay for my purchase and *sprint* away from the register and out the door - in a big hurry. This never fails to get the attention of the security bozo standing near the exit. Probably raises his blood pressure a hundred points. While it appears I've done something 'wrong' because I'm in a big hurry to get out - the poor security guy can only watch me leave.

Haha, winnar !

-t

[milhous]

i think some cellphones will trigger the alarms. a while back i walked into wal-mart with nothing and had my motorola startac with me, but with changing phones, it hasn't happened since. either that or a change in sensitivity levels like metal detectors. who knows.

[Mister Elf]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:


Once, in my younger days, I found one of those little plastic stick on gizmos on the floor of a store in the mall. I slipped it under the collar of my girlfriends jacket. She walked around all day setting the alarms off in every store we went into. That's what she gets for making me go Christmas shopping before December 20th. I showed her.

You'll want to be careful with those, some shoot off ink instead of just setting off an alarm.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Mister Elf:
You'll want to be careful with those, some shoot off ink instead of just setting off an alarm.

No silly, those are the ones they attach to clothes and only spray ink if you try to pry it off, it doesn't start spewing as soon as you walk out the door.

[wuzup101]

Hum... my powerbook sets off all the alarms at my school's' bookstore. Since I always have it with me and the bookstore is in a central location that I pass through a lot, I tend to set them off weekly. No one has ever asked to search my bag. I usually stop and look at whoever is looking at me and say "laptop" and they laugh and say go ahead...

[Gankdawg]

Originally posted by Demonhood:
i believe having the ability to check your receipt/cart is in the contract for Costco. it's a club you have to join, so you're agreeing to let them do this search, otherwise they'd revoke your membership.

Let 'em try and stop me and figure out who I am to revoke my membership.

It's a fair trade. If they are properly staffed, there shouldn't be a line to get out of a store. I already had to wait in line to buy the stuff and now I have to wait in one to leave? I don't think so.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by Mister Elf:
You'll want to be careful with those, some shoot off ink instead of just setting off an alarm.

Again, it would have served her right. Although I'm sure the withholding of the boom-boom would have been considerably longer had she gotten sprayed with ink. No sense of humor on some people!

[Zimphire]

It's obviously just a fancy gay-dar.

[storer]

I've often wondered this. Do these laws apply to Australia?

[dampeoples]

It depends on my mood and how much of a hurry I'm in. Sometimes I just keep walking, others I stop and look for an employee. I tend to always stop when i'm with my kids, it just seems like the right thing to teach them.