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Zimmerman · Sep 30, 2004, 09:51 PM

I don't know if this is a documented plobrem but iTunes just shits it's pants when Cleartype is turned on for you LCD owners. This is typical when I bring iTunes to front after using just about any text heavy document in front. I've tested it with Firefox, Acrobat Reader, scrolling files in a folder... doesn't matter. The text is always jumbled and corrupted. It reverts to normal when you either resize the window, requiring a redraw or scroll the entire lenth of the window and go back. Windows XP Pro.

Luca Rescigno · Sep 30, 2004, 09:58 PM

Hmm, I've had ClearType enabled on my WinXP box since before I even installed iTunes, and I've never seen that problem. I suppose you've tried reinstalling iTunes? Maybe try turning ClearType off and back on? I have a CRT by the way.

storer · Sep 30, 2004, 10:00 PM

interesting music collection...
what's cleartype?

Zimmerman · Sep 30, 2004, 10:03 PM

I'm using a Dell 2001FP 20.1" LCD with a DVI connection. I'm suspicious it's something to do with the LCD or DVI but have no way of verifying. It's fine with cleartype off.

xi_hyperon · Sep 30, 2004, 10:09 PM

My PC-using colleague has the same problem, but he's on a CRT, not an LCD.

Zimmerman · Sep 30, 2004, 10:23 PM

I wonder if it couldn't be a VGA thing. I'm using a GeForce 6800GT (overclocked to Ultra) and historically ATI has had better desktop/gui rendering.

moonmonkey · Sep 30, 2004, 10:25 PM

Originally posted by storer:
interesting music collection...

I love his cool spelling of "driving"

Zimmerman · Sep 30, 2004, 10:35 PM

Lol. You like my spellin' huh? Can you see the Christina Aguilera files over the top of the Stabbing Westward Album? Lol. You have no idea what kind of crazy **** I have. Ever heard of Joy Electric? Or the Dresden Dolls? Or Aqua? Or Ah-Ha? Or Arrestive Development? Or Future Bible Heros? Or the Nylons? Yea. I have a very varied musical library and as you can see, I play it on shuffle.

Cleartype is Windows crappy font smoothing technology. I can't call it anti-aliasing but thats what it simulates. It looks terrible on CRTs (IMHO) but is essential for LCD screens.

Kenneth · Sep 30, 2004, 11:08 PM

Originally posted by Zimmerman:
I'm using a Dell 2001FP 20.1" LCD with a DVI connection.

Take a look of this from /.
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?s...=137&tid=4

Well.. I enable ClearType even on a CRT.. while working in the computer labs. In your case, that mess up...

Zimmerman · Sep 30, 2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Kenneth:
Take a look of this from /.
http://ask.slashdot.org/article.pl?s...=137&tid=4

Well.. I enable ClearType even on a CRT.. while working in the computer labs. In your case, that mess up...

I read that earlier this week and know for a fact that its a PEBKAC situation. I could not be happier with my 2001FP and cannot distinguish performance diference between it and my CRT except in Doom3 wherin you may see some ghosting since the contrast between the shadowed and lit areas is so high. What he's describing isn't hardly attributable to the LCD. Check out the third post down in the link.

http://weblogs.asp.net/ryanw/archive...23/233681.aspx

Now I have seen lag when working with a dual monitor setup with LCD's and CRT's, but that is a function of the dual monitor setup, not the LCD.

storer · Oct 1, 2004, 12:28 AM

Originally posted by Zimmerman:
Cleartype is Windows crappy font smoothing technology. I can't call it anti-aliasing but thats what it simulates. It looks terrible on CRTs (IMHO) but is essential for LCD screens.

I have an LCD, how to turn it on? I wish it was a mac though.

Luca Rescigno · Oct 1, 2004, 01:28 AM

Right click on desktop
Properties
Appearance tab
Effects button
Check the "Smooth all fonts using..." checkbox and select "ClearType" from the drop-down menu.

It's not as nice as OS X, but it's way better than going without any smoothing.

storer · Oct 1, 2004, 02:06 AM

I have XP Home and nothing happens when switching from a full word doc to iTunes.

AKcrab · Oct 1, 2004, 02:07 AM

I enabled cleartype, and it was *fabulous*... But then my computer started hanging right after logging in from sleep.

storer · Oct 1, 2004, 02:09 AM

Cleartype is giving me a headache. Bugger that.

turtle777 · Oct 1, 2004, 10:09 AM

Do I get this right:

You are asking for support for your Windoze XP box here in the MAcNN forum ? Dude

-t

buffalolee · Oct 1, 2004, 10:29 AM

Originally posted by storer:
Cleartype is giving me a headache. Bugger that.

Me too. The words are actually fuzzier. Smoother, yes. Fuzzier, yes.

Zimmerman · Oct 1, 2004, 11:30 AM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Do I get this right:

You are asking for support for your Windoze XP box here in the MAcNN forum ? Dude

-t

And why not? I've found a lot of Mac users are very knowledgable in the Win PC world because of their jobs. It's more of an iTunes issue anyway, which is clearly in the Apple/Macintosh world.

Skip Breakfast · Oct 1, 2004, 11:36 AM

I accidentally turned Cleartype on yesterday. I thought I had something in my eye for a few minutes until I resolved the problem.

Zimmerman · Oct 1, 2004, 11:58 AM

I admit I was most dissapointed in Cleartype's font smoothing after migrating from the Aqua goodness of OSX but once I discovered it was really only intended for LCD's, I stopped using it and just got used to the jaggies. Yes, I know, I went the wrong way but the dark side was so compelling! You don't know the POWER of the dark side even though its font rendering sucks.

Peter · Oct 1, 2004, 12:33 PM

Before you flame Cleartype TOO much. Check this Cleartype Customizer out (web based)
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/...pe/tuner/1.htm

Powaqqatsi · Oct 1, 2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by Zimmerman:
I admit I was most dissapointed in Cleartype's font smoothing after migrating from the Aqua goodness of OSX but once I discovered it was really only intended for LCD's, I stopped using it and just got used to the jaggies. Yes, I know, I went the wrong way but the dark side was so compelling! You don't know the POWER of the dark side even though its font rendering sucks.

Why did you switch ?

Kenneth · Oct 1, 2004, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Why did you switch ?

That's a good question..

No offense.. after you got the "zoom zoom" Mazda 3... you gonna turn to the dark side?

xi_hyperon · Oct 1, 2004, 01:32 PM

Just a follow-up to my post regarding my colleague. I have confirmed that he does NOT have cleartype on, and he's having the same display problems with the text.

Zimmerman · Oct 1, 2004, 04:44 PM

Originally posted by Powaqqatsi:
Why did you switch ?

Cost. Cost cost cost.

I had easily piratable software avaialbe (Office, Adobe Photoshop 7, GAMES!) and the ****-tacular PCI ATI Rage 128 was going out in my B&W G3 400 and I couldn't justify dropping $70 (this was two years ago) on a new one when I could get a very very decent PC (1.2ghz PIII, GF2 GTS...) off my friend for $200. And it went from there. Critical mass 'n stuff. Plus, decent video cards cost a fortune for Macs and you guys don't have Doom3.

I play it at 1600x1200 at high detail with 2x ansiotropic filtering and it's smooth as glass. That type of performance would require a $2800 Mac where it only cost me $1,200. Like I said. Cost. OSX is sweet, there's no deneying, its just not worth it for a pretty gui. You'll notice I have WinXP rolled back to Windows 2000 style...

storer · Oct 1, 2004, 04:47 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
Do I get this right:
You are asking for support for your Windoze XP box here in the MAcNN forum ? Dude
-t

not really. I wanted to help this other dude find if his iTunes problem happens everywhere. And clear type is shite, and whoever said it was right, It looks like there is something in your eye.

Nicko · Oct 1, 2004, 04:51 PM

Try the Cleartype tuner ... cleartype works fine on my thinkpad, 1050x1400lcd.

edit: oops this link was already posted err... anyway, try the tweak it seems to do something. MB its magic?

storer · Oct 1, 2004, 07:57 PM

clear type just seems useless, maybe its my monitor (LCD HP Pavilion f1523) but it just gives me a headache. It looks fine without it. It seems to work better on my mum's NEC Versa Notebook.

Oisín · Oct 2, 2004, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by storer:
clear type just seems useless, maybe its my monitor (LCD HP Pavilion f1523) but it just gives me a headache. It looks fine without it. It seems to work better on my mum's NEC Versa Notebook.

I wouldn't do without ClearType for a million bucks! I hate it without ClearType! It's so much better than the standard crap Windows uses... and it's never given me a headache...

And I don't have the iTunes issue at all on my XP Home. It's never done that. It does, however, tend to start making very strange noises after playing for more than three-four hours non-stop. Everything sort of starts to sound like a very old record with scratches and bumps...

storer · Oct 2, 2004, 07:18 AM

Originally posted by Ois�n:
I wouldn't do without ClearType for a million bucks! I hate it without ClearType! It's so much better than the standard crap Windows uses... and it's never given me a headache...

mmm, oh well. it just seems to duplicate everything on my monitor. i will see what happens later. I just have issues

Peter · Oct 2, 2004, 07:31 AM

Originally posted by Nicko:
Try the Cleartype tuner ... cleartype works fine on my thinkpad, 1050x1400lcd.

edit: oops this link was already posted err... anyway, try the tweak it seems to do something. MB its magic?

wayyy ahead of you

storer · Oct 2, 2004, 07:38 AM

i tried it again. ugh. just makes it look like i have bad eyes. headache.

tooki · Oct 2, 2004, 08:25 PM

1. The image limits are not there primarily for the benefit of modem users, but because huge images destroy the layout. You could have achieved the same effect with small cutouts of the screenshot, you know! (Since you put in a warning, I'll let it be, of course.)

2. ClearType is in fact a type of antialiasing known as subpixel rendering — it's the same exact thing as Apple's text smoothing for LCDs and Adobe's CoolType.

3. ClearType is not "crappy". It's widely regarded as a very well-executed implementation of subpixel rendering. (It was also the first widely used commercial implementation of subpixel rendering in modern times; the first known use was on the Apple II.) If you don't like the way it renders, you may need to use the ClearType Tuner utility to choose the optimal rendering setting, as others have pointed out. I very much like ClearType's rendering.

tooki

theolein · Oct 3, 2004, 12:57 AM

Originally posted by Zimmerman:
Cost. Cost cost cost.

I had easily piratable software avaialbe (Office, Adobe Photoshop 7, GAMES!) and the ****-tacular PCI ATI Rage 128 was going out in my B&W G3 400 and I couldn't justify dropping $70 (this was two years ago) on a new one when I could get a very very decent PC (1.2ghz PIII, GF2 GTS...) off my friend for $200. And it went from there. Critical mass 'n stuff. Plus, decent video cards cost a fortune for Macs and you guys don't have Doom3. I play it at 1600x1200 at high detail with 2x ansiotropic filtering and it's smooth as glass. That type of performance would require a $2800 Mac where it only cost me $1,200. Like I said. Cost. OSX is sweet, there's no deneying, its just not worth it for a pretty gui. You'll notice I have WinXP rolled back to Windows 2000 style...

That's generally the reason most people stick with Windows: Cost and the easy availability of pirated software from friends etc. Two years ago, when I was doing a sysadmin job for a small company, I wanted to buy a laptop to take my work home on occasions. I really wanted a Powerbook, but since everything at work was Windows, I went for a Dell Inspiron 8200 (Dell surely has crap names for their crap). It worked fine, and WinXP worked fine, and it was way more responsive than OSX at the time (The days of Snappier� comments here on MacNN). I probably would have even stuck with that machine but then I had the chance to get a Powerbook fairly cheaply and lost the Dell when I got sh�tcanned.

I've now got a new 15"AlBook and am perfectly happy with it (traded in my old TiPB to offset costs). OSX has matured enormously compared to WinXP and since I'm not a gamer I couldn't give a flying fu�k whether it runs Doom3 or not.

Still, I could quite easily live with WinXP if I had to. It's not as bad as the zealotry make it out to be.

On Topic: The font problem could very well be a driver issue. Have you got the latest drivers for your graphic card?