[Beewee]

From the IGN article, I was just wondering what people thought about this new format? There are HD-DVDs but both seem to be trying for the top of the heap. I just have a few questions, what does this mean for DVD players, I know with blu-ray you would have to buy a new player but what about this HD-DVD?

It hasn't been very long since dual layers were released to the public and now they want to introduce an entirely new format?!

The resolution that is talked about with Blu-Ray is pretty amazing, but at what point (resolution) do you get when the human eye can't tell the difference?

Discuss...

"The name Blu-ray is derived from the blue laser used to read and record onto Blu-ray discs. The incorrect spelling of "Blu" is for trademark purposes, according to the Blu-ray Disc Association. The use of a blue laser enables Blu-ray discs a much higher density and as a result larger storage capacity. High-definition television signals are typically broadcast at 19 Megabits per second. With single-layered and dual-layered Blu-ray discs at 25 and 50 Gigabytes respectively, the medium can support phenomenal data rates of 36 Megabits per second and previously unattainable television resolutions of 1920x1080, more than double that of today's DVDs. Industry reports suggest that Sony may be in development with Blu-ray discs that can hold as much as a staggering 100 Gigabytes, more than some computer hard drives"

Straight from the horses mouth

IGN Article

[cpt kangarooski]

Dumbasses. Incorrect spellings have no effect for trademark purposes. It'll still be considered to be 'Blue-Ray' and that's not nearly as strong as it could be. Seriously people: if you need a trademark, the best thing to do is to make up a nonsense word with no connections to or connotations with anything at all.

[cold_reality]

I think it will be years before the technology takes over if at all.
The normal consumer would be pissed if they just bought their DVD player and now they have to shell out extra to the "new improved" model.

I think these will be like the beta max, they too were suppposed to be superior but VHS won. And Dual-layer DVDs were just recently released to the public. The resolution and capacity is nice but the average consumer doesn't need that. Hell most people don't even understand the concept of HD-TV. I'm sure that eventually you will get a generation that will maybe in the next 20 years or so but for now I think people will stick to their DVDs.

[kupan787]

Originally posted by cold_reality:
I think it will be years before the technology takes over if at all.
The normal consumer would be pissed if they just bought their DVD player and now they have to shell out extra to the "new improved" model.

How long has DVD been around...10 years? HD-DVD is just the next step, as DVD was to VHS.

I think these will be like the beta max, they too were suppposed to be superior but VHS won.

There were many reasons beta-max lost. But this is a horid comparison. Beta-max and VHS were launched at similar times. A better comparison would be that of VHS vs DVD.

The beta-max comparison is better suited for HD-DVD vs Blu-Ray...

And Dual-layer DVDs were just recently released to the public. The resolution and capacity is nice but the average consumer doesn't need that.

Um... dual-layer DVDs (DVD-9) has been around since day one. Consumer burners that can burner dual-layer DVDs have just come out. But any DVD to have been made in the last 6+ years has been on a dual layer disk.

Hell most people don't even understand the concept of HD-TV. I'm sure that eventually you will get a generation that will maybe in the next 20 years or so but for now I think people will stick to their DVDs.

This sounds like the same argument people had with VHS vs DVD. Who would upgrade? You can't play your old tapes on a new DVD player. The quality difference isn't that big.

The difference here is very different. Not only is that the quality remarkably better (if you have seen an HD broadcast you know what I mean), but the new players will play all your old DVDs just fine as well.

So it is not a matter of when or how this will catch on. It is coming. It will be just like upgrading to a new operating system, or new computer.

[Xeo]

Re: kupan787.

Interesting. Anyone who buys a new player will be set. Early adopters might get screwed though, because some will buy the BETA players and some will buy the VHS players, to put it metaphorically.

But, movies will be released on DVD and the new tech side by side for a few years at least. You can still get VHS of most movies, can't you? I'm not that old so the VHS to DVD switch was the only media format changeover I really saw. I remember how DVD had been out for a while and Blockbuster didn't even have them yet. Then it was a big deal when they did, but they had a small selection and it was separated off on it's own. Now, most of the movies at BB are DVDs and they are integrated with the VHS just the same. I'm sure we'll see the same thing with the new tech.

I'd really just like to have discs like that for backup and data storage. Imagine taking a 120 Gig HD and backing it up to a single disc. That'd be nice.

[MilkmanDan]

Noooo and I spent so much money on actually buying real dvds. Like, 150 of them! My investment is ruined.

I honestly don't think I'll be having a TV that'll be able to properly use HD-DVDs for some time. I'm not worried.

Though it does bother me that games are now on DVD. I mean, 4.36 gigs over bittorrent is a lot!

And by games, I mean free software under the.... oh... darn...

[Hawkeye_a]

i think they were inclined to beleive that Blu-ray will be the dominant format because:
-Sony's in house movie collection that can be provided on Blu-Ray discs
-PlayStation 3 going to use Blu-ray as the format for games and movies. (kinda like giving gamers an ocean, when all they want is a glass of water..... stupid if you ask me).

There one glaring disadvantage of Blu-ray that i can see. It isnt backwards compatible...so i think youd have to throw away your DVDs (or have a DVD player and a Blu-Ray player) around. Kinda liek what peopel do these days with VCRs and DVD players.

I think that might be a drawback to some people like myself(as id prefer to have a single player capable of reading DVDs and the next format)

They also mentioned HD-DVDs. Personally, im inclined to support these guys cause its maintained by the DVD forum(independant) and provides a reasonable jump in capacity.

Blu Ray might be able to hold 67% more information than HD-DVDs...but do consumers really need that right now ? for what applications ? and is it worth the cost of changing production/manufacturing methods and going through the entire VHS to DVD trasition again, when HD-DVD could hopefully/possibly provide high definition content and backward compatibility.

[Luca Rescigno]

Blue Las-alert!

But on a more serious note I think that backwards compatibility will reign supreme. It took a long time for movies to go from VHS to DVD, and a lot of people still have VCRs. If the next format works with people's current hardware, it'll help the adoption rate. I might be inclined to compare this with wireless technology... 802.11g beat the tar out of 802.11a because it was compatible with existing networks.

[killer_735]

I feel pretty skeptical about blu-ray discs. I can definitely see the value of being to cram 50G onto a game disk, but there's much more involved if you want a quick, merciless transition from one medium to another. You need every household in America to want and need the new tech, and you need the distributors to be pushed to release material in the new format.

One of the main things that lets DVDs do so well is that they're vastly superior to VHS in ways that the average consumer cares about. I'm not even talking about director's commentary, multiple angles etc. The main things that DVDs can do are hold excellent quality video and 5.1 sound, take up less space, and not have to be rewound. Blu-ray lets you do even more with this, sure, but it's the same as SACD technology-been out for awhile, but no one cares because for most users, the extra quality isn't even noticable. In addition to that, lots of companies were relatively quick to invest in DVD stamping equipment because after a few years, they became cheaper to mass-produce and distribute than VHS. Does Blu-ray ever promise to be a cheaper format to produce in than DVD?

But, what the hell. Maybe I'm missing something. I can definitely see Blu-ray being super cool for computer applications. And maybe every season of the simpsons on a single disk...the greatest productivity alternative known to man. But as far as set-top boxes quickly taking over the standard DVD market...meh.

[Xeo]

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
Noooo and I spent so much money on actually buying real dvds. Like, 150 of them! My investment is ruined.

I honestly don't think I'll be having a TV that'll be able to properly use HD-DVDs for some time. I'm not worried.

Though it does bother me that games are now on DVD. I mean, 4.36 gigs over bittorrent is a lot!

And by games, I mean free software under the.... oh... darn...

Current movies on the new format won't likely come for a long time anyway. They'd have to put a lot of time and money into upping the quality to make it worth it. I think you're investment is fine.

[mitchell_pgh]

I think people will go HD-DVD or there will by hybrid drives.

P.S. I'm selling my DVD collection. I now realize services like NetFlix just make sense...

Just wait until the HD-DVD Star Wars trilogy comes out... so I can have it on VHS, Laserdisk, DVD, HD-DVD... bla bla bla...

I'm starting to feel like my dad with his records.

I just wish the movies were getting better!

[Powaqqatsi]

Originally posted by killer_735:
in ways that the average consumer cares about.

key

[cold_reality]

Originally posted by kupan787:


Um... dual-layer DVDs (DVD-9) has been around since day one. Consumer burners that can burner dual-layer DVDs have just come out.

That is what I was referring to...the consumer technology has only been out for a short time.

[cold_reality]

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
PlayStation 3 going to use Blu-ray as the format for games and movies. (kinda like giving gamers an ocean, when all they want is a glass of water..... stupid if you ask me).

There one glaring disadvantage of Blu-ray that i can see. It isnt backwards compatible...so i think youd have to throw away your DVDs (or have a DVD player and a Blu-Ray player) around. Kinda liek what peopel do these days with VCRs and DVD players.

I think that might be a drawback to some people like myself(as id prefer to have a single player capable of reading DVDs and the next format)

They also mentioned HD-DVDs. Personally, im inclined to support these guys cause its maintained by the DVD forum(independant) and provides a reasonable jump in capacity.

Blu Ray might be able to hold 67% more information than HD-DVDs...but do consumers really need that right now ? for what applications ? and is it worth the cost of changing production/manufacturing methods and going through the entire VHS to DVD trasition again, when HD-DVD could hopefully/possibly provide high definition content and backward compatibility.

I agree, there aren't many average consumers that will need to back-up 100s of Gigs of HD space on a single disc. I know people that have a 60 Gig HD in their computer and don't even have the thing filled up half way!

There was a similar argument made when DVDs became a medium for games.
The only difference is that this is a freakin huge leap in storage capacity. I can't imagine a single application or game needing 120 Gigs of space. Now 30 Gigs with the HD-DVD would be a nice little jump.

I guess what I am saying is that no matter how advanced or wonderful some inventions are, if there isn't a practical application for the new technology it won't be adopted because the technology is too ahead of its time. It would be like inventing a super computer in the wild west, who would need or use it?

[macaddict0001]

my votes in for neither
hd-dvd is a joke as it hold's only 1.5 times as much as a regular dvd and most high def sets have four times the res blu-ray is ok but imperfect also because of size.

what would be interesting is if there was a harddrive you could remove the platters from and carry them.

[demograph68]

I'll be fine with the next DVD standard, as long as it supports the non-proprietary H.264 format.

[nerd]

Originally posted by demograph68:
I'll be fine with the next DVD standard, as long as it supports the non-proprietary H.264 format.

What's the final word on this. Steve Jobs sounded like H.264 was the final approved standard but I also thought I read something about WM9 crap also being supported?

Brad

[Hawkeye_a]

Originally posted by nerd:
What's the final word on this. Steve Jobs sounded like H.264 was the final approved standard but I also thought I read something about WM9 crap also being supported?

Brad

Yeah apparently they both are supported on HD-DVDs (not sure about Blu-Rays)

The question isnt so much about capacity anymore...well thats what i think anyway. it's about 'openness' and 'cost'. With Blu-Ray being developed by one company....and the production of the drives and mediums needing a totally different process than today's optical stroage...its seems far too inefficient and costly, for somethat that people dont even need.

If HD-DVD can reach the quality/capacity needed for HD movies ...thats all you need. and you can by backward compatible and you wont need to totally change manufacturing methods. (at least thats what i gather from the ign article).

I'm also kinda against having one company dictating what media to be used to store content developed by so many publishers....i guess thats what the DVD forum was created.

[Beewee]

"The Blu-ray Disc Association (BDA) today announced which advanced video codecs will be included in the BD-ROM specification. They had previously stated that they would include at least one advanced video codec, possibly more than one. The advanced video codecs that will be mandatory are MPEG-4 AVC High Profile and Microsoft's VC-1 video codec (the proposed SMPTE standard based on WMV9). "We've been committed to adding advanced codecs to enrich the Blu-ray Disc format," said Blu-ray Disc spokesperson Maureen Weber, general manager of HP's Optical Storage Solutions Business. "We want to offer content providers a variety of compression codecs to suit their various needs."

Does this mean they will be using both codecs? Standardized codecs are fine but everytime I see microsoft invading another part of the technology market with their proprietary crap I get really squimish..

The Article Source

[kupan787]

my votes in for neither
hd-dvd is a joke as it hold's only 1.5 times as much as a regular dvd and most high def sets have four times the res blu-ray is ok but imperfect also because of size.

There one glaring disadvantage of Blu-ray that i can see. It isnt backwards compatible...so i think youd have to throw away your DVDs (or have a DVD player and a Blu-Ray player) around. Kinda liek what peopel do these days with VCRs and DVD players.

With Blu-Ray being developed by one company

Yikes this thread has so much misinformation and just plain wrong info it is scary.

I would suggest if you are interested at all in what the future is going to bring, try going to here to get some info on both competing formats (Blu-Ray and HD-DVD).

Or head to here, these guys are having a bit of a better conversastion, and one with more correct information, than this thread.

The situation basicly boils down to this. Technology is ever changing. High definition DVDs are coming (be it as HD-DVD or Blu-Ray).

Both formats support all 3 main codecs (MPEG2, H.264/AVC, and VC-1). H.264/AVC and VC-1 can compress one hell of a lot better than MPEG2, so at the same bitrate as todays DVD's (6 or 7 Mbps), you can get a high def video stream. So the disk capacity of either format is more than enough to hold plenty of high def video.
Both formats are backed by more than one company (HD-DVD by the DVD forum, and Blu-Ray by a consortium of 10+ companies).
Both formats can be backwards compatible with todays DVDs. This means you can upgrade at your leisure to a new dvd player, which will play all of your existing disks, and new high definition disks.

There is really no negative, and only positive to gain to this new technology. I just don't see how anyone can argue against this and say that neither should come.

[Eriamjh]

Finally, a replacement for laserdisk!

Seriously, DVD did replace laserdisk. But it also replaced VHS. Blu-ray will be a niche market compared to DVD. DVD is not going away. Everyone thought DVD would replace CD. It didn't, did it? Maybe in 10 years, but not as quickly as some had expected (myself included).

High Definition will NEVER be more than a niche market compared to standard definition TV and DVD. 10% at best.

DVD is here to stay and will be the poor-man's HD.

Prove me wrong. I give you 5 years.

[demograph68]

Looks like I'll be buying all of my favorite movies again...

[Landos Mustache]

Originally posted by Beewee:

The resolution that is talked about with Blu-Ray is pretty amazing, but at what point (resolution) do you get when the human eye can't tell the difference?

DVD's look very good but on my set which is an HDTV set it is astounding how much better a 1080i source looking in comparison to the best DVD.

I can't wait for the next wave.