[Sosa]

This debate is rather limited, I only need to make one point: that you can stream multimedia over a network to a mac at the same framerates and quality as on a PC. Now I'm not a techie, so keep in mind I may not use the correct terminology here.

The situation: my law school, law.fiu.edu, is a Dell location, having two labs of about 15 cheap Dells and strongly advising incoming students to get PCs. Their argument is that they can support PCs such as Dell in house and that these systems are fully compatible with their network, professor assignments, printers, exam software, etc. Despite this I got my mac and have consistently advocated others do the same. For this I have suffered rebuke from the IT staff, from my employer (for allegedly doing this while working at school, a false accusation), and today even from the administration.

Besides myself there are two other law students who use mac laptops at school, although there are several other mac users who bring PC laptops. Today I got into a pretty serious argument with the head of IT here and one of the Deans, who seem to blame me for these students acquiring Macs. I think I lost the argument because I got angry (bad for a soon to be attorney) but I did make it clear that I reserved the right, as a lawstudent, to tell other students which computer I think is better. However I fear this will continue to have negative repercussions for me.

Enough history. Here is the problem: we have a class called Trial Practice where students practice speaking before a courtroom. These practices are filmed and available for viewing here: http://lawstream.fiu.edu/

Last year I was unable to watch my own practice sessions except from the school lab and I complained about this to IT. They were able to solve it momentarily, but then complained of losing quality (framerates?) and switched back to a method that does not seem to be compatible with OS X. They basically claim they cannot provide the same level of quality if they make it Mac compatible and will not make this sacrifice for the few mac users. I don't understand how other companies can provide streaming content to me and yet my lawschool refuses. The guy in charge of IT here, Frantz, wanted proof of this kind of streaming content. Well here is a professor assignment I was able to view on my mac, a video discussing will clauses determining how you wish to die:

http://www.actec.org/public/ShowResourcesPublic.asp

It looks like you need Realplayer to view it. Can anyone help me make an argument that my lawschool should provide streaming content that is cross platform? Is this technically difficult to do? What will it take for my Mac to view it at the high quality framerates IT prefers?

Thanks.

PS Other arguments posed by them I can easily defeat. For example, incompatability with Office. MS Office for Macs works fine, and even without I can open many Windows files. Or that lawyers don't use Macs: there are plenty of Mac resources for attorneys on the net. A recent manual on how to set up an computer network for law offices recommends Macs if starting from the ground up.

[Scientist]

I bet they are using one of those new "high quality" Windows Media codecs for which there is currently no support on the Mac. In order to stream video to you they need to use an older codec. This makes for poorer viewing quality for the Windows users at the same bitrate.

[Captain Obvious]

OK I can't speak about the streaming stuff but I don't blame them for advising students to get a PC for complete compatibility with software. Some of the programs that are made to aid with the instruction of classes and test taking are Windows only.

It’s just something you have to expect and deal with. Use your laptop for class, papers, and research but plan on having a PC for some things. Law school is already 30K a year, spend a $100 bucks on a used PC and make your life easier.

[Ghoser777]

If you have Real Player version 10 in, this link works:

http://www.actecfoundation.org/video/deathandtaxes.rpm

They have set up the RealPlayer embed html code in a really odd way that doesn't seem to work right. Show them this - maybe they'll provide a direct link for you (otherwise, you can just look at the html source and go from there).

Hope this helps!

[drive-thru]

I don't know much about streaming other than, for a Mac, wmv and Real suck.
If they used Quicktime then it could be good quality & cross platform...
...like this: http://www.apple.com/trailers/
(although that's not streaming in the true sense, right?)

[Drakino]

Every video on that first page worked for me, as they seemed to be Windows Media files.

All I did was click on the video, and up popped Windows Media Player 9.

Download it here.

Last year, Windows media player 7.1 was the newest for the Mac, while on the PC side 8 and 9 came out. Both with newer streaming protocals not backwards compatible. They likely turned on compatibility and it reduced the everyone to the older, and less framerate efficient codecs. Every new protocal gets better at keeping the video at a decent quality while squeezing it down in size. For example, the H.264 codec is about 4 times better then the MPEG-4 codec, but requires more processor power to decode.

If the default settings don't work to stream, mine is set to HTTP only on the Network Settings part of preferences.

I can stream Windows Media, Quicktime, and Real to my Mac just fine with the proper players. The only stream format that I know of that I can't watch is Nullsoft.

[The Godfather]

When I bought my iBook, I started keeping all my IT problems to myself. I wouldn't suggest a Mac to any newbie in a PC-only school.

[Ghoser777]

Well, it depends. Do you mind becoming the tech support (for free potentially?). I didn't care, so it wasn't a big deal. Down with the man

[Sosa]

Originally posted by Drakino:
Every video on that first page worked for me, as they seemed to be Windows Media files.

All I did was click on the video, and up popped Windows Media Player 9.

If the default settings don't work to stream, mine is set to HTTP only on the Network Settings part of preferences.

I can stream Windows Media, Quicktime, and Real to my Mac just fine with the proper players. The only stream format that I know of that I can't watch is Nullsoft.

I was not able to reproduce this. lawstream.fiu.edu videos do not appear on my version of WMP 9. I changed the preferences to HTTP only as you suggested. Clicking on the video links does nothing. How can this be? Can anyone else try?

[Sosa]

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Well, it depends. Do you mind becoming the tech support (for free potentially?). I didn't care, so it wasn't a big deal. Down with the man

I neglected to add that IT fails to mention that the university does support Macs! In the very same building as the law school is the "University Technological Services" where at least one Mac expert resides! They have helped me more than once. Also, there is a local Apple store 15 minutes away.

[mdc]

i went to the video stream link you provided and clicked on a pupil's wmv icon and windows media player opened up, buffered the video, and then the video played fine.

i do not see what the difference would be between if you viewed this on a pc versus a mac. the quality was really good for me. if you like i can take a screenshot of the video for you.

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by mdc:
i went to the video stream link you provided and clicked on a pupil's wmv icon and windows media player opened up, buffered the video, and then the video played fine.

i do not see what the difference would be between if you viewed this on a pc versus a mac. the quality was really good for me. if you like i can take a screenshot of the video for you.

Ditto. The window automatically went to full screen, and it took forever to buffer, but the quality was good.

[PurpleGiant]

Worked very well here also. you could try right-clicking the stream icon, and then going to 'Copy Link to Clipboard', then open up WMP and paste it into the Open URL dialog (from File menu)

[Captain Obvious]

That's weird, i click on it and VLC tries to play the file.
How do I change that.

[Sosa]

I assume you guys are all using Macs? I'm on Safari version 1.2.3, OS 10.3.5, and WMP 9.0.

Why I'm I not able to view these videos? The links are dead for me. Trying to download the file I get a message telling me the archive doesn't exist. Copying the address in the link and pasting it to the Open URL in WMP 9 doesn't work either. Message: Cannot recognize the type of transmission, link: file://\\lawstream.fiu.edu\video\Smith\Daniel%20Cruz%20(R edirect,%20Edwards)-12-(09-27-2004).wmv).

Is the fact that I'm on the school wireless network have anything to do with it?

Anyway I appreciate your help with this. The fact that you can view these videos is good but discredits my argument about their sloppy work in faling to make the content cross platform accessible! One less reason to criticize Macs though.

[SVass]

I thought that federal courts require the use of Word Perfect, not Word as it includes footnotes in the word count! How come your law school uses Word.

[PurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Sosa:
I assume you guys are all using Macs? I'm on Safari version 1.2.3, OS 10.3.5, and WMP 9.0.

Why I'm I not able to view these videos? The links are dead for me. Trying to download the file I get a message telling me the archive doesn't exist. Is the fact that I'm on the school wireless network have anything to do with it?

Anyway I appreciate your help with this. The fact that you can view these videos is good but discredits my argument about their sloppy work in faling to make the content cross platform accessible! One less reason to criticize Macs though.

Out of interest, have you tried accessing these links from another net connection, using your same computer?

[AKcrab]

Originally posted by Sosa:
I assume you guys are all using Macs? I'm on Safari version 1.2.3, OS 10.3.5, and WMP 9.0.

Why I'm I not able to view these videos? The links are dead for me. Trying to download the file I get a message telling me the archive doesn't exist. Is the fact that I'm on the school wireless network have anything to do with it?

Let's make sure we're talking about the same videos...
I tried the two here: http://lawstream.fiu.edu/
The "archives" didn't seem to have any files, but the two 'makeup classes' worked fine.

I'm running the same exact software as you.

[Sosa]

Originally posted by SVass:
I thought that federal courts require the use of Word Perfect, not Word as it includes footnotes in the word count! How come your law school uses Word.

Good point. I'm interning in the local Public Defender's office and they also use word perfect. However I've heard they are trying to switch to Word. I'll ask about your point.

[macroy]

Originally posted by Sosa:

Anyway I appreciate your help with this. The fact that you can view these videos is good but discredits my argument about their sloppy work in faling to make the content cross platform accessible! One less reason to criticize Macs though.

No offense, but I fail to understand why THEY are sloppy because YOU have decided to go against the 'standard'. From what you said, it seems that they have standardized on PCs. You want to use a Mac, great, but it seems to me that you are being unreasonable to demand support for your Mac.

[Sosa]

Originally posted by AKcrab:
Let's make sure we're talking about the same videos...
I tried the two here: http://lawstream.fiu.edu/
The "archives" didn't seem to have any files, but the two 'makeup classes' worked fine.

The archives don't work for me either. I wonder if these guys put in some type of code just for myself! They had told me about a query they had wrote in, which they showed me in the source code which asked about the OS requesting the video.

I'm going to try accessing from my home dial-up and see if I can view anything.

[Sosa]

Originally posted by macroy:
No offense, but I fail to understand why THEY are sloppy because YOU have decided to go against the 'standard'. From what you said, it seems that they have standardized on PCs. You want to use a Mac, great, but it seems to me that you are being unreasonable to demand support for your Mac.

No offense taken. I'm not asking for Mac support. That is available in school elsewhere and locally. I'm requesting that the videos be cross platform accessible, just like any other site. Apparently this is the case, it is just me who can't view them!

Anyway, I also don't appreciate them forcing me to meet their PC standard! And while I am a minority, I'm not the only one! At some point, if enough people bought Macs, they would have to offer support. They have 4-5 staff. I'm sure they can hire someone with Mac knowledge or at least have a deal with UTS for support.

I'll add a vicious circle I've noticed: They don't want people using macs partly because test taking software is not mac compatible. The test taking software is not Mac compatible because not eough people use Macs!

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by macroy:
No offense, but I fail to understand why THEY are sloppy because YOU have decided to go against the 'standard'. From what you said, it seems that they have standardized on PCs. You want to use a Mac, great, but it seems to me that you are being unreasonable to demand support for your Mac.

What other forum did you wander in from?

[Synotic]

Originally posted by Sosa:
Message: Cannot recognize the type of transmission, link: file://\\lawstream.fiu.edu\video\Smith\Daniel%20Cruz%20(R edirect,%20Edwards)-12-(09-27-2004).wmv)

Can you paste the actual link you're pasting into WMP? That link doesn't seem right... FWIW, the videos seems to work fine for me, running the same software as you (quite well actually, about 1100 kbps).

[Sosa]

Originally posted by Synotic:
Can you paste the actual link you're pasting into WMP? That link doesn't seem right... FWIW, the videos seems to work fine for me, running the same software as you (quite well actually, about 1100 kbps).

file://\\lawstream.fiu.edu\video\Smith\David%20Bierman%20 (Opening,%20Lawrence)-14-(10-04-2004).wmv

That is what I get if I right click on video link and copy address.

[Synotic]

Originally posted by Sosa:
file://\\lawstream.fiu.edu\video\Smith\David%20Bierman%20 (Opening,%20Lawrence)-14-(10-04-2004).wmv

That is what I get if I right click on video link and copy address.

That must be the problem then. The "file://" protocol is for local files. I'm not sure what the "\\" is for though. I don't know much about networking, so I don't know if someone the actual link would be changed because of some network redirection or something, but I doubt it. Perhaps their doing some kind of detection and putting in bad code if you're using a Mac? Briefly going over the page, I don't notice any JavaScript detection, so perhaps it server-side. Can you see what the links are after going in the source? If the links are the same as what you just posted, there may be some kind of ASP trickery going on that's feeding you bad links. This is the link I get, which works:

mms://lawstream.fiu.edu/faculty/Smit...0-04-2004).wmv

[PurpleGiant]

Originally posted by Synotic:
This is the link I get, which works:

mms://lawstream.fiu.edu/faculty/Smit...0-04-2004).wmv

That is the link I get too, which does work fine.

[buffalolee]

Hi,

I got it to work...

- I opened up Windows Media Player
- FILE --> OPEN URL --> Pasted the link
- It buffered and played 100%

Looks like you win.

mms://lawstream.fiu.edu/faculty/Smith/David%20Bierman%20(Opening,%20Lawrence)-14-(10-04-2004).wmv

[mdc]

to answer how to stop vlc from taking over on wmv links.

download a wmv file from somewhere and then get info on it and choose windows media player and change all. this worked for me when vlc tried to open windows media files.

[ZeroKoolNess1]

I've worked at school like the one you mention. Actually I worked for Kellogg http://www.kellogg.northwestern.edu/. And to be honest it is easier when the entire student body uses the same notebook computer. Each student is required to buy into the program for support. They receive a nice thinkpad and great support (if i do say so myself) the best thing about it from the the technology sides is when a user has a problem we can easily swap their hard drive into a new machine and in 5 minutes they are on their way and we can fix any other hard ware problems. If it is software we can usually fix them on the stop by a large amount of diagnostic programs written for the software we install.

The idea of a uni-os school is not bad, it is only bad for those who do not follow it. And to be honest most of the law firms you work for are going to provide you with a company - windows based computer.

You might want to learn which fights to fight, and which ones you can win, if you are going to be a lawyer. I would recommend you use your Mac for personal and pleasure but realize that you are most likely going to have to be cross-plateform.

A large amount of the mac world who works for others or in non-mac dominated fields go by: pc for work, mac for home.

[SSharon]

all the files I tried seemed to work fine for me with wmp 9 and os 10.3.5

I used to work at norwestern and in the research group I was in there was 1 pc and 14 macs. I guess it really depends on what you are doing and which school you are in, I was in materials science and engineering.

[macroy]

Originally posted by Sosa:
No offense taken. I'm not asking for Mac support. That is available in school elsewhere and locally. I'm requesting that the videos be cross platform accessible, just like any other site. Apparently this is the case, it is just me who can't view them!

Anyway, I also don't appreciate them forcing me to meet their PC standard! And while I am a minority, I'm not the only one! At some point, if enough people bought Macs, they would have to offer support. They have 4-5 staff. I'm sure they can hire someone with Mac knowledge or at least have a deal with UTS for support.

I'll add a vicious circle I've noticed: They don't want people using macs partly because test taking software is not mac compatible. The test taking software is not Mac compatible because not eough people use Macs!

Glad things worked out with the streaming. However, I'm going to guess that their lack of multiplatform support may be a case of need and budget (and that could also be why you don't have a dedicated staff member to support a small user base). And that tends to be the issue with IT support groups.... they can only do so much.. so they pick what to support... 'cause that's all they have the money for.. so someone is going to lose out.

[macroy]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
What other forum did you wander in from?

I'm gonna assume you're wondering why I'm busting the balls of a Mac supporter on a Mac forum? To me it has nothing to do with Macs in particular. To me it seems that he's walked into a steakhouse and complained that they can't serve him a vegan meal. If that makes sense...

[Randman]

I'd sue (or at least seriously threaten to sue) the law school for harassment and violating your constitutional rights to free speech and maybe even religion. Teach the rat bastards a thing or two.

BTW, for your talk, have you tried using Virtual PC and see what streaming issues you get?

[Randman]

Originally posted by macroy:
I'm gonna assume you're wondering why I'm busting the balls of a Mac supporter on a Mac forum? To me it has nothing to do with Macs in particular. To me it seems that he's walked into a steakhouse and complained that they can't serve him a vegan meal. If that makes sense...

Yes, your comment made sense. Which is more that you can always say about Capt Oblivious.

[MilkmanDan]

The University of Minnesota law program require Windows for their test programs. These test programs basically lock out everything in windows, except the program, so that you can't cheat. VPC is not an option, because you can get around their security. Which is overall very sad, seeing how there are quite a few Macs on the U of M campus. So I'm told.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Law school can be a stressful place where small things seem more important than they are. Captain Obvious has the best solution. Just buy yourself a cheap PC for these things and use your mac for everything else. You aren't (if you are smart) going to be able to fight with legal employers over this kind of thing, so why get into the habit of demanding mac support now?

On Word/Wordperfect and the federal courts. Some courts are going over to electronic filing. Here in DC, for example, the federal district court requires filings in pdf format, so it is cross platform. Other courts still use paper.

Most law firms use Word. Some still use Wordperfect, which up to about a decade ago was the law firm standard.

[buffalolee]

Originally posted by MilkmanDan:
The University of Minnesota law program require Windows for their test programs. These test programs basically lock out everything in windows, except the program, so that you can't cheat. VPC is not an option, because you can get around their security. Which is overall very sad, seeing how there are quite a few Macs on the U of M campus. So I'm told.

What about running VPC for Windows in your PC Laptop? Might be cheating as you can get around the security this way.

[Gee4orce]

I thought legal practises were one of Apple's strongholds ?

Perhaps you should point out to the Dean that keeping legal documents on what is without question the most insecure operating system available is hardly good sense. Point out to him your FileVault protected home directory. Don't forget to ask him how many malware programs are hiding on his machine, including key loggers and spyware and viruses.

I don't mind differences of opinion, but forcing an inferior - dangerously so - product onto someone who has made a reasoned and intelligent choice otherwise is oppressive. I can't believe that they are getting on top of you to this extent over the choice of your IT hardware ?! Haven't they got better things to do ?

Really shows the power of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

[The Godfather]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
I thought legal practises were one of Apple's strongholds ?

Perhaps you should point out to the Dean that keeping legal documents on what is without question the most insecure operating system available is hardly good sense. Point out to him your FileVault protected home directory. Don't forget to ask him how many malware programs are hiding on his machine, including key loggers and spyware and viruses.

I don't mind differences of opinion, but forcing an inferior - dangerously so - product onto someone who has made a reasoned and intelligent choice otherwise is oppressive. I can't believe that they are getting on top of you to this extent over the choice of your IT hardware ?! Haven't they got better things to do ?

Really shows the power of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

Specially if the computer standard includes Internet Explorer.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
I thought legal practises were one of Apple's strongholds ?

Perhaps you should point out to the Dean that keeping legal documents on what is without question the most insecure operating system available is hardly good sense. Point out to him your FileVault protected home directory. Don't forget to ask him how many malware programs are hiding on his machine, including key loggers and spyware and viruses.

I don't mind differences of opinion, but forcing an inferior - dangerously so - product onto someone who has made a reasoned and intelligent choice otherwise is oppressive. I can't believe that they are getting on top of you to this extent over the choice of your IT hardware ?! Haven't they got better things to do ?

Really shows the power of Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.

I have worked in four law firms (3 AMLAW 100, and 1 small) and in the government, and I have visited a bunch of others for interviews. I have never seen a Mac in any of them.

Law firms, like most large businesses, use networks and servers, not harddrives on the computer. File Vault would be of no interest to them. What does interest law firms is their document management systems that integrate with Office to generate a database. Nobody is going to rewrite such proprietary software for more than one platform.

[mydog8mymac]

Federal Courts in Oklahoma require filling .pdfs. Maybe the whole 10th Circuit?

[Captain Obvious]

Originally posted by macroy:
I'm gonna assume you're wondering why I'm busting the balls of a Mac supporter on a Mac forum? To me it has nothing to do with Macs in particular. To me it seems that he's walked into a steakhouse and complained that they can't serve him a vegan meal. If that makes sense...

It would it you knew what you were talking about. I functioned fine with an Mac through school and I only needed to use a PC in class during exams. For that I just borrowed a friend's who was in B-school. I had a PC desktop after 1L because there were a couple programs that I wanted to use to make life easier for me but it was not really required.

Security is not really much of an issue. If you use their network a lot of schools force you to buy an antivirus program they designate and cause your PCs to update before getting online and infecting other's machines. If you have a Mac you have to go have a nice chat with tech support and they'll usually waive you on or make you get the Mac version of the antivirus program so you don't pass viruses onto others unintentionally.

You can't compare this situation with a corporate environment since machines are not assigned to you at this school. If they required them to have a PC laptop then they probably would have raised his tuition and given him one when he began school. PCs are suggest and recommended not required at his (and most) school(s).

[The Godfather]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
I had a PC desktop <snip> to make life easier for me <snip>

OMG. It is actually harder with a Mac!

[Drakino]

Originally posted by Sosa:

Cannot recognize the type of transmission, link: file://\\lawstream.fiu.edu\video\Smith\Daniel%20Cruz%20(R edirect,%20Edwards)-12-(09-27-2004).wmv).

Is the fact that I'm on the school wireless network have anything to do with it?

Yes, it does it appears.

Us on the outside get proper internet links, and they work at they should.

For some reason you on the inside get served a different page with Windows networking paths. The "\\lawstream.fiu.edu" is the server name, "\video" is the share name, and then "\Smith" is a folder name that contains the .wmv video file.

You could browse to these files on your mac by doing the following in the Finder. Hit Apple-K to open the connect to server window and type "smb://lawstream.fiu.edu/video" and hit connect. It should show up as a drive basicially, and let you use Finder to browse the folders.

There is a good chance what they are doing is very IE and Windows specific internally. I can't think of a good technical reason to do this, but the proper solution would either to be to serve the same page internally and externally, or at least do "If IE do above file:// method, otherwise do mms://". That way existing people still see the same setup, and non IE users on any platform get a standard Internet compliant URL.

[theolein]

If all else fails, just get VPC and run Windows2000 on it, stripped of all uneccessary junk. That way, you can actually use it to do some productive work. These videos all work, btw, so that shouldn't be a problem. As Drakino noted, some bright spark decided to paste Windows paths inside a webpage, which is really about as stupid as one can get, and, not only that but there have been security problems with this recently, and a Microsoft security patch could nix those paths completely. Ask them why they do that, when it will not work in other browsers and systems, and might not even work on Windows in the future.

[macroy]

Originally posted by Captain Obvious:
It would it you knew what you were talking about. I functioned fine with an Mac through school and I only needed to use a PC in class during exams. For that I just borrowed a friend's who was in B-school. I had a PC desktop after 1L because there were a couple programs that I wanted to use to make life easier for me but it was not really required.

Security is not really much of an issue. If you use their network a lot of schools force you to buy an antivirus program they designate and cause your PCs to update before getting online and infecting other's machines. If you have a Mac you have to go have a nice chat with tech support and they'll usually waive you on or make you get the Mac version of the antivirus program so you don't pass viruses onto others unintentionally.

You can't compare this situation with a corporate environment since machines are not assigned to you at this school. If they required them to have a PC laptop then they probably would have raised his tuition and given him one when he began school. PCs are suggest and recommended not required at his (and most) school(s).

Where did I say anything about security or Mac isuess?

I'm just going by what he said at the beggining. And to me, it sounded pretty straight forward; The guy's law school has decided to use one platform and only provide support for that plaform. Our student here has decided to go against the policy but is demanding that they resolve his incompatibilities....

To me, he went about it the wrong way. Nothing to do with the technology involved... just the principle here.

[Sosa]

Originally posted by mydog8mymac:
Federal Courts in Oklahoma require filling .pdfs. Maybe the whole 10th Circuit?

I asked the librarian at the Miami Dade PD office abou this. Fed courts do use PDF, but you have to download a specific form apparently. Fla Supreme court has moved to Word and apparently this is the motivation for County courts to switch from WordPerfect.

[Sosa]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I have worked in four law firms (3 AMLAW 100, and 1 small) and in the government, and I have visited a bunch of others for interviews. I have never seen a Mac in any of them.

I was plesantly surpised a few weeks ago when I went to attend a CLE course in the Public Defender's office on the immigration consequences of criminal convictions. Well they were using a 12" Powerbook and a Sony Ericsson phone with the clicker software to give the presentation. The only thing missing was Keynote! They used Powerpoint for Mac instead.

So we have at least one Mac user in the PDs office. And I have already gotten a couple of questions from other attorneys as to why I prefer a mac. Seems to me like there is interest from the bottom, is the top enforcing standards that is trying to kill us.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Sosa:
I was plesantly surpised a few weeks ago when I went to attend a CLE course in the Public Defender's office on the immigration consequences of criminal convictions. Well they were using a 12" Powerbook and a Sony Ericsson phone with the clicker software to give the presentation. The only thing missing was Keynote! They used Powerpoint for Mac instead.

So we have at least one Mac user in the PDs office. And I have already gotten a couple of questions from other attorneys as to why I prefer a mac. Seems to me like there is interest from the bottom, is the top enforcing standards that is trying to kill us.

What about the document management database issue I mentioned? I think that would be the biggest obstacle with law firms. The government in my experience doesn't use those systems so it may not be the same issue there.