[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

"TORONTO -- With a massive shortage of influenza vaccine in the United States, Americans living near the border may be contemplating a cross-border trip for a flu shot this fall.

But the president of the Canadian Medical Association urged Canadian doctors to remember their first duty this influenza season is to their own patients.

"The vaccine shortage problem . . . that they now have in the States or elsewhere in the world is not for us here to fix or sort out," Dr. Albert Schumacher said in an interview Friday.

Schumacher warned that, in particular, doctors on this side of the border shouldn't put vaccine purchased by provincial and territorial governments -- the bulk of the vaccine available in Canada -- into the arms of non-residents.

"The stuff that's sitting in my fridge isn't for them," Schumacher said flatly.

There have been reports already of Americans turning to Canada in search of flu shots. Worried seniors from northern Maine have called to book times at a flu shot clinic in St. Stephen, N.B., later this month."

http://www.canada.com/national/story...f-c603501b267f

[CD Hanks]

But do they really need them?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
But do they really need them?

Granny does.

Or some just want it because they can't have it and want to beat the system.

[CD Hanks]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Granny does.

Or some just want it because they can't have it and want to beat the system.

Granny needs to realize that if her body can't defend itself against a bug, then maybe it really is her time to go.

For the rest of them, JUST KEEP RAGING AGAINST THAT MACHINE!!!! WOOOOO!!!!

[wdlove]

Here in Massachusetts the elderly are getting their flu vaccine.

[i_rooster]

they should just travel to some parts of asia and get the real deal

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by i_rooster:
they should just travel to some parts of asia and get the real deal

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
Granny needs to realize that if her body can't defend itself against a bug, then maybe it really is her time to go.

Are you serious?

OK genius, next time you get a headache don't take any aspirin. Disable those airbags in your car. Pray you never need medical attention.

If medicine can help someone it should. And if someone is willing to help them then they should be allowed to.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
But do they really need them?

They may not need them, but I am sure it will make their life easier if they have protection from the flu.

In the long run it is cheaper to give a vaccine than to treat a outbreak or infection.

Remember, more people have died from the common cold than from all other ailments combined in the history of man.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
"TORONTO -- With a massive shortage of influenza vaccine in the United States, Americans living near the border may be contemplating a cross-border trip for a flu shot this fall.

But the president of the Canadian Medical Association urged Canadian doctors to remember their first duty this influenza season is to their own patients.

"The vaccine shortage problem . . . that they now have in the States or elsewhere in the world is not for us here to fix or sort out," Dr. Albert Schumacher said in an interview Friday.

Schumacher warned that, in particular, doctors on this side of the border shouldn't put vaccine purchased by provincial and territorial governments -- the bulk of the vaccine available in Canada -- into the arms of non-residents.

"The stuff that's sitting in my fridge isn't for them," Schumacher said flatly.

There have been reports already of Americans turning to Canada in search of flu shots. Worried seniors from northern Maine have called to book times at a flu shot clinic in St. Stephen, N.B., later this month."

http://www.canada.com/national/story...f-c603501b267f

Quite a protectionist dogma there. Nothing like looking out for mankind in general is there? I wonder how Canada's vs. The USA's foreign aid stacks up? What country do you think spends more and give more? It would be interesting to find out. I bet it's the US.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
*SNIP* I wonder how Canada's vs. The USA's foreign aid stacks up? What country do you think spends more and give more? It would be interesting to find out. I bet it's the US.

[I'll answer my self here]

That was easy to find out:

USA's giving is higher, but Canada give more vs. GDP

[Yose]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
[I'll answer my self here]

That was easy to find out:

USA's giving is higher, but Canada give more vs. GDP

I would have hoped the US gives more than Canada if only for the sheer difference of population revenue generated by them. I wonder what else both nations could be doing.

[effgee]

Calif. Woman Dies After Wait for Flu Shot

compassionate conservatism at its best ... fsckers.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by effgee:
compassionate conservatism at its best ... fsckers.

How is this blamed on compassion conservatives? That's like blaming my dog for the Dow Jones average going down.

Unrelated.

Now blaming the woman's family for not taking take of her... that is appropriate.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
How is this blamed on compassion conservatives? That's like blaming my dog for the Dow Jones average going down. Unrelated. Now blaming the woman's family for not taking take of her... that is appropriate.

Where in the article I linked to does it say she had family??
Even if she did have family - are you telling me they would have been responsible that there's a sufficient supply of flu vaccine for the state of CA??

Cut the hackery - we're not buying any bridges on Saturdays.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by effgee:
Where in the article I linked to does it say she had family??
Even if she did have family - are you telling me they would have been responsible that there's a sufficient supply of flu vaccine for the state of CA??

Cut the hackery - we're not buying any bridges on Saturdays.

No where. Did I imply it did? No.

But effgee did. Hence I quoted him. Quit being an idiot

And from the article he linked:

Marie Franklin stood with her husband and hundreds of other seniors outside a Safeway supermarket Wednesday but collapsed when she left the line to seek shade, striking her head, said Ginni Poulos, Franklin's daughter.

The blame lies in Europe.

[shmerek]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Quite a protectionist dogma there. Nothing like looking out for mankind in general is there? I wonder how Canada's vs. The USA's foreign aid stacks up? What country do you think spends more and give more? It would be interesting to find out. I bet it's the US.

What is wrong with looking after your own citizens (who's taxes paid for the vaccine) before foreigners? Should the needs of Canadians be set aside because of a US shortage?

I would hope that the US spends more on foreign aid considering it has 10 times the population.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
No where. Did I imply it did? No. But effgee did. Hence I quoted him. And from the article he linked:

Heh - you're just as confused as I am (never argue in two forums over a similar story) Anyway, doesn't change the fact that her family is certainly not responsible for the fact that people have to wait in line for hours to receive the most basic medical treatment - it's supposed to be the "greatest nation", not some god-forsaken banana republic.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Thousands line up for flu shots

http://www.cnn.com/2004/HEALTH/10/16....ap/index.html

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by effgee:
Heh - you're just as confused as I am (never argue in two forums over a similar story) Anyway, doesn't change the fact that her family is certainly not responsible for the fact that people have to wait in line for hours to receive the most basic medical treatment - it's supposed to be the "greatest nation", not some god-forsaken banana republic.

OOPS. I made a little mistake there didn't I?

Her family could have been with her and helped her. They are responsible.

Like I said earlier, the blame lies in Europe. They are the ones who shut down the facility that made the vaccine.

I guess you could blame the US government for outsourcing the flu vaccine. I am not familiar with the infrastructure of vaccine manufacture to blame the U.S. yet.

[Mr. Blur]

Originally posted by shmerek:
What is wrong with looking after your own citizens (who's taxes paid for the vaccine) before foreigners? Should the needs of Canadians be set aside because of a US shortage?

exactly. and the way the usa has been treating canada in regards to trade issues i think they have a lot of nerve coming and asking for favours....maybe when they open their borders to canadian beef (c'mon, 1 mad cow 18 months ago.....that is not the issue any longer, it is pure protectionism now) and give up the fight on soft-wood (how many world trade courts/tribunals have to rule in canada's favour before it sinks in that your border duty/tax is not justified)....then come and ask again and maybe we'll help you out if we have some to spare.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
... Like I said earlier, the blame lies in Europe. They are the ones who shut down the facility that made the vaccine. ...

There we go again ... the archetypical backwood-dung-kicker excuse ever so popular at any hoedown around the country. At the very least, read up on who got the contract from the US govt. - here, I'll even help you, in three easy steps:

• Step 1 - Read up on what actually happened.
• Step 2 - Read up on why the US govt. is at fault and no one else.
• Step 3 - Memorize the information on this contact page.

Then ... repeat after me ... veeery slowly ...

• C-h-i-r-o-n … i-s … n-o-t … a … E-u-r-o-p-e-a-n … C-o-r-p-o-r-a-t-i-o-n.
• T-h-e … i-n-c-i-d-e-n-t … o-c-c-u-r-r-e-d … a-t … a … C-h-i-r-o-n … f-a-c-i-l-i-t-y.
• T-h-e … f-a-c-t-o-r-y … w-a-s … s-h-u-t … d-o-w-n … b-e-c-a-u-s-e … a … l-a-r-g-e … p-e-r-c-e-n-t-a-g-e … o-f … t-h-e … p-r-o-d-u-c-t … w-a-s … c-o-n-t-a-m-i-n-a-t-e-d.
• M-y … g-o-v-e-r-n-m-e-n-t … w-a-s … i-n-f-o-r-m-e-d … a-n-d … s-a-t … o-n … i-t-s … t-h-u-m-b-s … f-o-r … w-e-e-k-s.

The homework assignment is then to send an email to Chiron and ask them why they thought it necessary to have this vaccine manufactured in the UK in the first place. The answer - should they deem your correspondence important enough so that they will actually bless you with a reply - might just surprise you. As an alternative, you might want to give them a call @ 1-800-244-7668.

See, that wasn't all that difficult.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by effgee:
***SNIP***

vaccine manufactured in the UK in the first place.

From your last linked article

An FDA spokeswoman says agency personnel have inspected and rejected all 46 million doses at a Liverpool, England, factory of the Chiron Corporation, which manufactured the vaccine. She said the company violated good manufacturing processes, and that all the vaccines are suspected to be contaminated.

Soooo... this problem didn't originate in Europe? Isn't the England still in Europe?

I bet you are going to come back with this little tid bit from the second article you linked to

Experts say the shortage stems from the United States having just two suppliers and leaving the provision of vaccines, an issue of public health, to private companies.

Are you going to say that a government based company would have done a better job? As the "exerpts" do?

[Johnathan Hives]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Thousands of medicine whores line up for flu shots

fixed

[ReggieX]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
Granny needs to realize that if her body can't defend itself against a bug, then maybe it really is her time to go.

Keep raging there, Hanks.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Are you going to say that a government based company would have done a better job? As the "exerpts" do?

Yee-haw - you got me!! I'm the evil communist pig and you're the free-marketeer hero.

Just so I get that straight ... you're all for privatization and all that other cool shtuff ...

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Soooo... this problem didn't originate in Europe? Isn't the England still in Europe?

... but when a private, American company outsources* production of a vaccine to a facility abroad which they own, operate and supervise (note: not a subcontractor or anything of the likes) and the whole thing goes belly-up, then it's the fault of the country that the American company outsourced their work to?

(* - for reasons I can't even begin to fathom - why in the good lord's name would any upright and patiotic American company do such a thing?)

*snort*

One more time ... since I'm a bit slow in the head ... the US government was warned ahead of time that most of the vaccine wasn't worth the containers it was being shipped in and they did nothing ... the US company that got the contract and owns the facility abroad most likely knew that their charge of vaccine was shite before it ever made it to the US and they did nothing ... it should be relatively safe to assume that the US FDA was aware of the fact that there's only one supplier for said vaccine ... don't you agree? Subsequently, wouldn't it have made sense to check into their work ... uhm, periodically ... just to make sure they're actually doing what they're supposed to do?

And you tell me/us the problem originated in Europe?

*snicker*

Sweeeeet Jesus - you knew I was a communist and your line of reasoning is spotless and incontestable - I give up.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by effgee:
Yee-haw - you got me!! I'm the evil communist pig and you're the free-marketeer hero.

Just so I get that straight ... you're all for privatization and all that other cool shtuff ...

WOW. You're quite the condescending a$$. And yes, I am for privatization of most things. Medical care included. I do NOT want the US government involved in my health care.

Originally posted by effgee:
... but when a private, American company outsources* production of a vaccine to a facility abroad which they own, operate and supervise (note: not a subcontractor or anything of the likes) and the whole thing goes belly-up, then it's the fault of the country that the American company outsourced their work to?

(* - for reasons I can't even begin to fathom - why in the good lord's name would any upright and patiotic American company do such a thing?)

*snort*

One more time ... since I'm a bit slow in the head ... the US government was warned ahead of time that most of the vaccine wasn't worth the containers it was being shipped in and they did nothing ... the US company that got the contract and owns the facility abroad most likely knew that their charge of vaccine was shite before it ever made it to the US and they did nothing ... it should be relatively safe to assume that the US FDA was aware of the fact that there's only one supplier for said vaccine ... don't you agree? Subsequently, wouldn't it have made sense to check into their work ... uhm, periodically ... just to make sure they're actually doing what they're supposed to do?

And you tell me/us the problem originated in Europe??

I guess you missed my saying

I guess you could blame the US government for outsourcing the flu vaccine.

Originally posted by effgee:
*snicker*

Sweeeeet Jesus - you knew I was a communist and your line of reasoning is spotless and incontestable - I give up.

I kinda got that from this:

Originally posted by effgee:
compassionate conservatism at its best ... fsckers.

How come you have still never addressed my original post asking how this was blamed on compassion conservatives? Are you avoiding the question?

[Cadaver]

Yeah, but if you get the flu in Canada, its only like having a moderate cold in the US (y'know, because of the exchange rate). Sorry. It was funnier in my head.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
WOW. You're quite the condescending a$$.

I know - I get that all the time.

Originally posted by Kilbey:
And yes, I am for privatization of most things. Medical care included. I do NOT want the US government involved in my health care.

Another typical blanket statement of questionable substance - if your government would have been more involved in that process in the first place, that entire clusterfsck could most likely have been avoided. And I am talking about overseeing/supervising as in: making sure it gets done, and not the government manufacturing the fsck'ing vaccine. But I can imagine how this statement doesn't fit into your black and white view of the US apple pie and therefore, that probably makes me a communist, too.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Kilbey:
I guess you missed my saying:

I guess you could blame the US government for outsourcing the flu vaccine.

Blame the govt. for outsourcing the vaccine? If they should be blamed for anything it's for not making sure the damn thing gets manufactured by whoever they give the contract to - they didn't outsource anything. In addition to that, they should also be blamed for not having a "plan B"

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I kinda got that from this:
Originally posted by effgee:
compassionate conservatism at its best ... fsckers

That told you I was a communist? And you call me a condescending ass? You're funny. Btw, no need for dollar signs ... I can take it.

Originally posted by Kilbey:
How come you have still never addressed my original post asking how this was blamed on compassion conservatives? Are you avoiding the question?

Yes, because you scare me. Ah, actually no, not really ... How this could be blamed on "compassionate conservatism", you ask? Simple ... because they're in the White House and it is part of their job to make sure that shite like this gets done. If this had happened under a democratic administration I would just as much have called them "liberal fsckers". But again, since you already outed me as a communist, that statement probably won't fit into your limited view of the world (see "black and white" above), either


(edited, because I forgot a word and am generally a condescending, big lump o'dumb)

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by effgee:
I know - I get that all the time.
**SNIP**
(edited, because I forgot a word and am generally a condescending, big lump o'dumb)

Has anyone ever said it is difficult to discuss things with you?

[effgee]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Has anyone ever said it is difficult to discuss things with you?

Funny you should mention that ... my therapist tells me that all the time ...



Come on Kilbey, you didn't really expect a serious answer to that question, did you? We're just two stubborn boneheads with equally thick skulls and a different POV - that's what makes "discussing" things on teh intarweb a bit "difficult" at times ... and all the more fun!!





(edited: because there was a typo and I really, really wanted to type "big lump o'dumb™" again)