[waffffffle]

I recently graduated from college with a Comp Sci engineering degree and I am working in IT right now but I think that I would really like to be a systems engineer in sales for a technology company. So I'm looking at getting some certifications under my belt. Has anyone here gotten Microsoft or Cisco certification? Which track(s) did you do? How long did it take you? Did you take any courses? Would you recommend any specific courses or methods? I am pretty confident in my ability to ace any of these tests. My main concern is any hands on experience that I would need. For Cisco, I own no gear, and I have no idea how much that stuff costs. For Microsoft, I only have one PC in my house and all the software that I would imagine that I would need would be pretty expensive. However at least for Microsoft I have experience at work adminstering an NT4 (yes, old) domain and mostly Windows 2000 clients with Exchange 5.5. Does that help me?

Thanks to anyone who can give me some info.

[rozwado1]

waffffffle

No certifications here. This useless post is dedicated to Ca$h.

[turboSPE]

Originally posted by waffffffle:
I recently graduated from college with a Comp Sci engineering degree and I am working in IT right now but I think that I would really like to be a systems engineer in sales for a technology company. So I'm looking at getting some certifications under my belt. Has anyone here gotten Microsoft or Cisco certification? Which track(s) did you do? How long did it take you? Did you take any courses? Would you recommend any specific courses or methods? I am pretty confident in my ability to ace any of these tests. My main concern is any hands on experience that I would need. For Cisco, I own no gear, and I have no idea how much that stuff costs. For Microsoft, I only have one PC in my house and all the software that I would imagine that I would need would be pretty expensive. However at least for Microsoft I have experience at work adminstering an NT4 (yes, old) domain and mostly Windows 2000 clients with Exchange 5.5. Does that help me?

Thanks to anyone who can give me some info.

I'm currently taking the VB.Net MCSD/MCAD course. My class started sometime in June and will end Dec. 18th (the schedule is Mon. and Wed. from 6pm to 10pm and alternate Saturdays from 8:30-5:30). I'm taking the in-person classes instead of one of those fly-by-night certification web sites. If you're technicall inclined, there's no reason why you shouldn't simply buy the study guides and a test-prep CD and forgo the classes; I simply did it because I got a good deal and enjoy classroom learning. Oh, and I don't have a PC at home (I do at work though). I'm not sure if this is true at all of the certification houses, but mine offers student software discounts (most likely because it's associated with a university). From what I've learned, if you've got some previous experience and you're going to the most modern (say, VB6 to VB.Net 2003), you're better off forgetting what you learned since they've changed so much. I'm not sure about the server stuff (that's not really my bag). HTH.

turboSPE

[fromthecloud]

I got my CCNA certification in high school. It has helped quite a deal in my college classwork.

I've talked to quite a few employers, and most value the Cisco certifications about the Microsoft ones.

[wolfen]

I've been in the industry more or less for about 14 years. Here's my advice.

It's great that you've got a goal -- Sales Engineer. It's very good to work toward something. Be as specific as you can in your planning. There are engineers that work for integrators, manufacturers, small shops - big shops, Fortune 500 customers, etc. These players all do very different things even though their employees have the same titles.

For pure studying, it's hard to beat Real-exams. For studying and understanding, CBT Nuggets is extremely cost effective for what you get. And of course anything from Mark Minasi is pure gold.

Career tips:

1) Do not -- I REPEAT -- Do not chase the money. I know lots of people in the industry. Believe me, there are happy techs making 30K and there are miserable IT Directors. Yeah, you gotta eat, but seriously think about your true talents. Don't try to sell a certification to an employer, get the certification that amplifies your talents. If you don't know your talents, get the certification that has interesting study material and you will soon see your talents. If it's boring to study for, think twice about how big of a role you really want it to play in your daily work.

2) Figure out what you want your average day to be like. There are Cisco certified people who travel the world and consult, and there are Cisco people who sit in a lab all day testing firmware. Same goes for any other certification - use your job experience to figure out what kind of daily routine you want, and then get the certs that make that path possible. Focus on those parts of your training that you enjoy and want to expand on later.

My case, I'm focusing on project management with server and infrastructure. I want to run a small IT department (2-10 techs/ 20-30 servers) some day. I don't wanna be a field engineer forever (Lots of people do, and that's great if it's for you). So I'm building a portfolio...Project+, Network+, Server+, Linux+ and the MS certs that relate to Server & Infrastructure. Maybe eventually a CCNA to round it off. The point is I'm picking and choosing the certs that would open a SPECIFIC door, not just a door.

This is the trend in IT -- focus.

[olePigeon]

I would recommend you study and get your Cisco first. Having both a CCNA and CCIE is excellent resume stuff. MCSE is a f*cking joke.

[fromthecloud]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
I would recommend you study and get your Cisco first. Having both a CCNA and CCIE is excellent resume stuff. MCSE is a f*cking joke.

If you get your CCIE, you are set for life. Employers will line up for the chance to throw money at you. BUT, its probably the hardest test(s) that you will take in your life.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by fromthecloud:
If you get your CCIE, you are set for life. Employers will line up for the chance to throw money at you. BUT, its probably the hardest test(s) that you will take in your life.

Exactly why you can't say "MCSE and Cisco certs." Unlike Microsoft, Cisco actually requires you to know the material. You have to renew your cert every 2 years, but you can take a condensed test that covers both CCNA and CCIE so you don't have to take two different tests (and they're shorter.)

[olePigeon]

This is my friend's website: trolans.net

He has all the Microsoft and Cisco certs. But he's a perfect example of doing a job of what you like, not what you can really get. He could be getting six figures right now (or more?!), but he's working tech support for Hurricane Electric. Funny.

[skalie]

The folks over at www.examnotes.com are pretty hardcore certification fans

[/possible resource]

[macroy]

Wolfen probably has the best advice here right now. Do what interests you. And these certifications should be to "supplement" your existing skills. Five years ago (more like 7), they may have helped you get a job.. not so today.

As for specific certs - MS is probably the easiest certs to get (aside from the "+" certifications - a+, security+ etc...) due to their popularity and test format. You can find plenty of "practice" exams out there. Transcender is one of the most popular.

CCNA is Cisco's entry level exam. If you know the basics of networking (OSA model, Subnetting), and the required commands, you can pass that exam pretty easily. This is a prerequesite to getting the other Cisco certs (CCNP, CCSP, CCIE). I'm not sure what the 'combo' exam posted earlier is refering to... but I've not hear of a combined CCIE/CCNP exam. Frankly, that wouldn't make sense, it would be like combining the medical boards exam and the PSATs.

CCIE is considered the holy grail in terms of the network field. The passing rate of the lab exam is about 18-22%, and most do not get it on their first try. I have a buddy who works for Cisco - and he's failed it twice.

Once you figured out which certification you like to go for (again, this should be in line with what you actually enjoy, not which will make you the most money), there are a million schools out there that will "claim" to help you. IKON and New Horizons I've used, and they're not bad. Intense School has a series of "boot camps" that will get you these certs in about a weeks time - but these are usually for the seasoned folks who needs to brush on the academics that they test.

Finally, I would check your local community college - they're usually cheaper, go at a slower pace, and most of the folks there are really interested in learning. Its amazing how much more you can learn when your classmates are not out to just get the cert.

Sorry for the long post.

Oh, and a good resource is Certification Magazine

[tooki]

Microsoft's certifications are, yes, jokes. Some employers use them as some kind of basic screening, but most of them ignore these certifications because they do not guarantee the competence to actually do the tasks in question. These exams have been diluted by test prep classes that teach you how to pass the test even though you don't understand the material.

Cisco's certifications are a completely different beast. The exams are rigorous and thorough, and require a practical component that can't be learned in a test prep class. These certifications are valuable.

tooki

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by macroy:
I'm not sure what the 'combo' exam posted earlier is refering to... but I've not hear of a combined CCIE/CCNP exam. Frankly, that wouldn't make sense, it would be like combining the medical boards exam and the PSATs.

After you're certified, every two years you have to renew your certification. You can take combined, condensed tests for your renewals so you don't have to take every single test over again. You can renew your CCNA/NP/IE in one sitting versus taking 3 different exams on 3 different test dates.

After your cert, a lot of it is just to make sure you're up to date with whatever's current.

[olePigeon]

Originally posted by macroy:
Finally, I would check your local community college - they're usually cheaper, go at a slower pace, and most of the folks there are really interested in learning. Its amazing how much more you can learn when your classmates are not out to just get the cert.

If you're lucky. Here in California (ironically) every single JC and state university has been run over by Microsoft. It's hard to find a Cisco class. I've been to 4 different JCs and none of them offer Cisco classes, only Microsoft crap.

[milhous]

wow, this is great stuff, i'm impressed. this is my last year of college, and now i'm really thinking about taking the cisco route. i'm contemplating taking a year off before i consider graduate school and this would be great to have.

now i've learned a lot about networking through class, but don't have any certifications. it appers that i'll have to work my way up in this manner:

CCNA -> CCNP -> CCIE

so maybe i can take certification classes after graduating. now does anyone know how much it'll cost to go through all the classes and exams?

[Mithras]

Dude, you went to Princeton! Whatever you think will make you happy is great, but you should have plenty of options available. Don't sell yourself short.

[wolfen]

Originally posted by milhous:
it appers that i'll have to work my way up in this manner:

CCNA -> CCNP -> CCIE

Why does it appear that way? What do you know about it?

[milhous]

ugh, did i interpret this pyramid incorrectly? you have to start from the bottom and work your way up due to prerequisites. and if i were to go through with this, i'd rather learn the material then just try to pass the test.



http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/...type_home.html

[macroy]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
After you're certified, every two years you have to renew your certification. You can take combined, condensed tests for your renewals so you don't have to take every single test over again. You can renew your CCNA/NP/IE in one sitting versus taking 3 different exams on 3 different test dates.

After your cert, a lot of it is just to make sure you're up to date with whatever's current.

Uh... a higher Cisco cert automatically recerts you for a lower one. i.e if you hold an Associate level cert, passing ANY single Professional Level certification test (you need 4 or 5 depending on the cert) automatically recertifies your CCNA. Although once you have your Professional or Expert level cert, there's really no reason to claim your Associate cert since you're beyond it.

And unless they've changed things (which I've not gotten any notification of), the Associate and Professional certs are good for three years. The Expert tracks require recertification every 24 months.

[macroy]

Originally posted by milhous:
ugh, did i interpret this pyramid incorrectly? you have to start from the bottom and work your way up due to prerequisites. and if i were to go through with this, i'd rather learn the material then just try to pass the test.

http://www.cisco.com/images/training/ccna.gif

http://www.cisco.com/en/US/learning/...type_home.html

heh.. you really don't have the options to "just try to pass the test". This is where Cisco stands out. With the exception of the CCNA exam, All the others really require experience and hands-on knowledge.

And don't even worry about the CCIE unless you know networking like the back of your hand (i.e. protocols that's not even used a lot in the US). This is a grueling two part exam - A written, and a lab. From what I understand, the written isn't too tough.. but the lab is where all the horror stories come from. It used to be a two day exam - but they've shortened it to a one day exam to accomodate the demand (They only offer it in two places in the US, San Jose or RTP).

[wolfen]

Originally posted by macroy:
From what I understand, the written isn't too tough.. but the lab is where all the horror stories come from. It used to be a two day exam - but they've shortened it to a one day exam to accomodate the demand (They only offer it in two places in the US, San Jose or RTP).

Yes, I heard several of them. Men flying in from around the country, getting the test project, and whimpering through it for a few hours before leaving the room in a huff. It was no fun. I think it's a bit more fair now. I have a friend who works for Cisco in RTP and even he has no interest in getting the CCIE. You either get your whacks off of networking or you really need money bad. Otherwise a CCIE just isn't practical.