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Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Oct 30, 2004, 12:38 PM

http://cube.ign.com/articles/561/561400p1.html

It is one thing to be hated, but Nintendo has been almost entirely phased out of the collective consciousness of millions. This is a far worse fate. But why is this? Nintendo continues to make some of the best games on the market, so why must it fight an uphill battle to attract a new audience? The answer is both relatively simple and highly complex.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2004, 12:46 PM

Read it last night. Thought it was a lame article, though it had a few good points.

The author even pulled one of your classic "then" instead of "than" tricks.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Oct 30, 2004, 12:50 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Read it last night. Thought it was a lame article, though it had a few good points.

The author even pulled one of your classic "then" instead of "than" tricks.

Do you have some sort of alarm that goes off if Nintendo is mentioned on the boards?

MindFad · Oct 30, 2004, 12:51 PM

I refreshed the Lounge and there it was. Hey, it took eight minutes to get the first reply in. That's not too bad.

ReggieX · Oct 30, 2004, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Do you have some sort of alarm that goes off if Nintendo is mentioned on the boards?

Ca$h used to

Hawkeye_a · Oct 30, 2004, 01:27 PM

read the article today.... i agree with what it said. Nintendo seems to try to exploit it's 20 year old franchizes a little too much. Super Mario Sunshine ? Mario Pin ball ? donkey conga or whatever ? mario party 6.

Thats not creativity or innovation imo. they need some major 3rd party support to diversify the audience immediately. it's abused its franchises a little too much lately.

Im a huge nintendo fan. but i agree with this article. Thats not saying that their TWW, Metroid Prime, etc are not fun...heck theyre some of the best games ive ever played. but i think people in general are bored of the same faces and story line. something new n refreshing is needed.

On the hardware front....Nintendo hardware is extremely elegant (both technically and asthetically) when compared to the compteition.

They just need to give developers a lot more freedom imo.

Evan_11 · Oct 30, 2004, 01:34 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Do you have some sort of alarm that goes off if Nintendo is mentioned on the boards?

The guy lives in 1989.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2004, 02:06 PM

My fans are back.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Oct 30, 2004, 04:21 PM

I think everything in the story was true.

Zimphire · Oct 30, 2004, 05:05 PM

Originally posted by Evan_11:
The guy lives in 1989.

I don't think he was even alive in 89.

UR-20 · Oct 30, 2004, 05:35 PM

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
read the article today.... i agree with what it said. Nintendo seems to try to exploit it's 20 year old franchizes a little too much. Super Mario Sunshine ? Mario Pin ball ? donkey conga or whatever ? mario party 6.

Thats not creativity or innovation imo. they need some major 3rd party support to diversify the audience immediately. it's abused its franchises a little too much lately.

Im a huge nintendo fan. but i agree with this article. Thats not saying that their TWW, Metroid Prime, etc are not fun...heck theyre some of the best games ive ever played. but i think people in general are bored of the same faces and story line. something new n refreshing is needed.

On the hardware front....Nintendo hardware is extremely elegant (both technically and asthetically) when compared to the compteition.

They just need to give developers a lot more freedom imo.

I like Nintendo too, but I think that if they don't start to update their image, they're going to be left behind by the competition when it comes time for the new consoles to be released. If they're first out of the pen, with a solid line up of games: Mario/Zelda
Sports/Racing and Mature/FPS they'd have a good chance of walking away number one. Unfortunately seeing how squeemish they are about adding blood, and sex appeal into their games, I don't think that's gonna happen.

Link · Oct 30, 2004, 05:35 PM

Yes, let's kill the only company that still makes ONLY games and replace it with the giant "technology empires" that happen to make video game consoles.

If Microsoft changed their name to SBC and Sony changed their name to Sprint it'd look exactly like the phone industry.. hahahahahahaha

Zimphire · Oct 30, 2004, 05:39 PM

I've always thought Nintendo went for the younger crowd anyhow. Even though I like the GameCube myself.

Less violence and T&A.

I would never want a kid of mine playing some of those X-Box games.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2004, 06:00 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
I don't think he was even alive in 89.

That's wack.

Toutgood · Oct 30, 2004, 06:04 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
That's wiggety-wack.

Old schoolin' yo!

djohnson · Oct 30, 2004, 06:26 PM

Nintendo is da bomb.

Seriously, using the xbox controls is like trying to cook supper with your feet. I dont like using the ps2 controls either. Guess you can call me a Nintendo fan.

Link · Oct 30, 2004, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
That's wack.

Right, you're older than I am and I know I was around in 89

SOUL TRAIN PWNZ YOU!

Evan_11 · Oct 30, 2004, 07:41 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
That's wack.

I notice your site is down. Why is that? The Big N didn't shut you down for copywrite infringement did they?

MindFad · Oct 30, 2004, 09:14 PM

Originally posted by Evan_11:
I notice your site is down. Why is that? The Big N didn't shut you down for copywrite infringement did they?

Oh, no! When it goes back up, I'll be sure to PM you so you can download all the old Nintendo icons! And it's copyright, chief.

Evan_11 · Oct 30, 2004, 10:18 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Oh, no! When it goes back up, I'll be sure to PM you so you can download all the old Nintendo icons! And it's copyright, chief.

No thanks. I don't want your hack work on my system.

CreepingDeth · Oct 30, 2004, 10:27 PM

I stopped reading IGN when they basically forced you to pay $20 a year back in 01.

First, Sony and Microsoft aren't very good at creating great characters. But by far, Microsoft has the worst in-house development of all. Most of their first party games are basically $50 coasters to show off the P3 and GPU.
Sony has done better, but I really don't see much there worth noting.

Second, if Sony or Microsoft had the talent and the experience in the industry, they would be keeping their best characters alive.

I don't see why people bitch so much about Nintendo. Hell, all Xbox has is Halo 2 (eventually) and Sony has GTA (which, personally, looks very very tempting. But I ain't paying $150+ to play SA). Nintendo is the scapegoat for all you nerds. Why? I do not know.

If they made a very cheap PS2, I'd probably buy one, but you'd have to pay me to buy an Xbox.

Evan_11 · Oct 30, 2004, 10:42 PM

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
Nintendo is the scapegoat for all you nerds. Why? I do not know.

If they made a very cheap PS2, I'd probably buy one, but you'd have to pay me to buy an Xbox.

I don't agree about your synopsis of the XBOX. I don't play mine much anymore not because of the games but because I just don't have time. However I really like how MS has pushed for a more mature system. They have also taken risks on titles like Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue and Jet Set Radio. Shenmue 2 especially is an amazing game. I played it first on my Dreamcast as an import though.

Nintendo is just kind of an odd duck though. They seem to have run out of ideas about coming up with new characters. They also don't take risks. I guess they just rely on that Miyamoto guy to think of all their concepts and he's like 50 now. Their games are still fun (not as much as they were in the 2D days though) but I'm just too old now to take them seriously now.

CreepingDeth · Oct 30, 2004, 10:52 PM

Originally posted by Evan_11:
I don't agree about your synopsis of the XBOX. I don't play mine much anymore not because of the games but because I just don't have time. However I really like how MS has pushed for a more mature system. They have also taken risks on titles like Panzer Dragoon, Shenmue and Jet Set Radio. Shenmue 2 especially is an amazing game. I played it first on my Dreamcast as an import though.

Nintendo is just kind of an odd duck though. They seem to have run out of ideas about coming up with new characters. They also don't take risks. I guess they just rely on that Miyamoto guy to think of all their concepts and he's like 50 now. Their games are still fun (not as much as they were in the 2D days though) but I'm just too old now to take them seriously now.

Mature?good

Quality, not the amount of blood and **** is, makes games good.
Sega took the risk on Shenmue.
Name a good game published by Microsoft [does not include Halo].

Hmmm. I've had more fun playing Metroid Prime than playing Halo.

But I'll be honest: the last year has been sorta boring for Nintendo, and probably for the Game industry in general. Nothing ever really said "Get out your wallet and buy me or I'll cut you!" like I was hoping. Sorta reminds me of the GC launch.

And the PS2 launch. And the Xbox launch.

Hopefully we'll be seeing MP2 in two weeks or so. Then I should probably buy another SP adapter.

I lost mine like 4 months ago.

Truepop · Oct 30, 2004, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by Hawkeye_a:
read the article today.... i agree with what it said. Nintendo seems to try to exploit it's 20 year old franchizes a little too much. Super Mario Sunshine ? Mario Pin ball ? donkey conga or whatever ? mario party 6.

Thats not creativity or innovation imo. they need some major 3rd party support to diversify the audience immediately. it's abused its franchises a little too much lately.

Im a huge nintendo fan. but i agree with this article. Thats not saying that their TWW, Metroid Prime, etc are not fun...heck theyre some of the best games ive ever played. but i think people in general are bored of the same faces and story line. something new n refreshing is needed.

On the hardware front....Nintendo hardware is extremely elegant (both technically and asthetically) when compared to the compteition.

They just need to give developers a lot more freedom imo.

that reminded me of the lucas debates when the DVDs were released. he hit his franchise a few times and it was good, then he started to hit it too hard and innovation and creativity died.

CreepingDeth · Oct 30, 2004, 11:03 PM

Originally posted by Truepop:
that reminded me of the lucas debates when the DVDs were released. he hit his franchise a few times and it was good, then he started to hit it too hard and innovation and creativity died.

Too bad Sony and Microsoft had no creativity to begin with.
They are not self-sufficient. Not in the least. They get their $$$ out of third party games.

MindFad · Oct 30, 2004, 11:24 PM

Originally posted by Evan_11:
No thanks. I don't want your hack work on my system.

Cool, I'll PM you anyway. One of the perks of being a fan.

fireside · Oct 30, 2004, 11:49 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Cool, I'll PM you anyway. One of the perks of being a fan.

:: signs up for MindFad's fanlisting ::

i only want updates on that metroid icon set though.

CreepingDeth · Oct 30, 2004, 11:54 PM

Originally posted by fireside:
:: signs up for MindFad's fanlisting ::

i only want updates on that metroid icon set though.

Damn I want those icons�

Oh yeah, where was this thread? What were we talking about before the derail?

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Oct 31, 2004, 01:04 AM

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
I stopped reading IGN when they basically forced you to pay $20 a year back in 01.

First, Sony and Microsoft aren't very good at creating great characters. But by far, Microsoft has the worst in-house development of all. Most of their first party games are basically $50 coasters to show off the P3 and GPU.

Crimson Skies is one of the best games ever.

im_noahselby · Oct 31, 2004, 04:25 AM

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
I stopped reading IGN when they basically forced you to pay $20 a year back in 01.

I used to frequent SegaWeb, Videogames.com, and IGN, until they all started to charge money for their content. Truly sad, and it even pushed GamerWeb to it's demise...

Can you or others recommend some established videogame sites that offer free daily coverage, content and/or decent multi-platform gaming forums.

Thanks,
Noah

Hawkeye_a · Oct 31, 2004, 10:07 AM

Gamer Feed is pretty good: http://www.gamerfeed.com/

If your a Nintendo fanboy(like myself), there's:
PlanetGamecube http://www.planetgamecube.com/
Nintendojo http://www.nintendojo.com/
Nintelligent http://www.nintelligent.net/

Cheers

PS>>would liek to know what game-news-sites you guys frequent as i got a pretty limited list.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Oct 31, 2004, 10:18 AM

Originally posted by MindFad:
The author even pulled one of your classic "then" instead of "than" tricks.

Oh my gosh I didn't know I invented that?!!

Well, in that case I can't take anything else he says about Nintendo seriously

mishap · Oct 31, 2004, 10:24 AM

yeah gamerfeed is great. they really need an RSS feed.

MindFad · Oct 31, 2004, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Oh my gosh I didn't know I invented that?!!

Well, in that case I can't take anything else he says about Nintendo seriously

You may not have invented it, but you've certainly mastered the art.

I e-mailed him and told him to fix, but he hasn't. For shame.

Landos Mustache · Oct 31, 2004, 12:17 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
You may not have invented it, but you've certainly mastered the art.

I e-mailed him and told him to fix, but he hasn't. For shame.

If that is the worst thing you have to email him about the story Nintendo is screwed

nforcer · Oct 31, 2004, 12:27 PM

It's a good article that accurately points out Nintendo's big problems.

MindFad · Oct 31, 2004, 12:43 PM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
If that is the worst thing you have to email him about the story Nintendo is screwed

Seriously, though, I think he makes some good points, but of many of those, I think these are problems that the whole industry faces. The same games or ideas over and over, rehashed, repackaged. Sure, new styles of gameplay or gameplay ideas get thrown in, but there hasn't been much of a paradigm shift, if you will. That's not to say these games aren't enjoyable; it just feels like there could be a whole lot more. New characters aren't the only things that are going to move the industry ahead. But it's true�Nintendo's got work to do, but so does everyone else. Hopefully the next generation isn't as stale as this one. I got a feeling Revolution might be another example of Nintendo trying to make big moves. But will it hurt them? Same goes with the DS.

CreepingDeth · Oct 31, 2004, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by nforcer:
It's a good article that accurately points out Nintendo's big problems.

I don't care what you guys say, I have this on pre-order.

[Anyone who saw the secret ending after you get a 100% on the game knows what I'm talking about.]

fireside · Oct 31, 2004, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:

I don't care what you guys say, I have this on pre-order.

[Anyone who saw the secret ending after you get a 100% on the game knows what I'm talking about.]

i don't care if all the games suck on GCN, i bought my gamecube for two things: Zelda, and Metroid. and it was worth it.

MindFad · Oct 31, 2004, 12:54 PM

Landos Mustache · Oct 31, 2004, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by fireside:

i don't care if all the games suck on GCN, i bought my gamecube for two things: Zelda, and Metroid. and it was worth it.

yep, I agree. Seems we are not the minority though.

Thing is I don't think Metroid or Zelda would be any worse if Nintendo had just made the game for Xbox. It probably would have been better actually.

CreepingDeth · Oct 31, 2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by Landos Mustache:
yep, I agree. Seems we are not the minority though.

Thing is I don't think Metroid or Zelda would be any worse if Nintendo had just made the game for Xbox. It probably would have been better actually.

Naah. In house developers generally know how to use their own technology better than any 3rd party developer.

I couldn't play MP on that bulbous Type F pad. That give me the geebies.

nforcer · Oct 31, 2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:

I don't care what you guys say, I have this on pre-order.

I plan to get it as well. Not immediately, since I'll have plenty to do with Halo 2. But it just proves the point of the article moreso.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Oct 31, 2004, 02:43 PM

Seriously, someone please tell me why Metroid wouldn't be as good on an XBOX that has more room for audio, cutscenes and better graphics chips. Not to mention the hard drive.

MindFad · Oct 31, 2004, 03:53 PM

Nintendo probably wants to stay in business and in hardware, where they are profiting, just like every other company. This is only a guess.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Oct 31, 2004, 04:00 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Nintendo probably wants to stay in business and in hardware, where they are profiting, just like every other company. This is only a guess.

That's fine. The problem is I actually think ANY current Nintendo game would have been better on XBox with online play and the other reasons I listed above.

I love nintendo games but the hardware has become irrelevant. Sure it looks cute and has that handle that I never use but the guts of the Xbox are better (the size of it doesn't bother me as it just sits there).

Sega doesn't seem to be making worse games now that they have stopped making hardware, in fact I am actually buying their games now when before I didn't want a sega system.

MindFad · Oct 31, 2004, 04:13 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
I love nintendo games but the hardware has become irrelevant.

Which is precisely why Nintendo would never do such a thing.

You think it would be better on Xbox why? Lower MP's framerate, add more pixel shaders, and you've got an Xbox version. Cool! Hell, it might even sell more copies. Where's the incentive to buy Nintendo's hardware now? Where's Nintendo's own incentive to even stay in hardware now?

All this "Nintendo should just make games" crap is retarded. There no reason for it from a business standpoint�at least today. Who knows in the future. But if home console go tits-up for Nintendo in a generation or two, they'll be able to maintain thei Game Boy line without a problem. I still don't think Sony will take too big a chunk out of that market from Nintendo. Things will be pretty interesting in the next 5-8 years, that's for sure. What's next, XboxLite, the handheld version? **** would weigh 10 lb.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Oct 31, 2004, 04:23 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
Which is precisely why Nintendo would never do such a thing.

You think it would be better on Xbox why? Lower MP's framerate, add more pixel shaders, and you've got an Xbox version. Cool! Hell, it might even sell more copies. Where's the incentive to buy Nintendo's hardware now? Where's Nintendo's own incentive to even stay in hardware now?

Oh come on. Every games that comes out for all platforms always looks best on the xbox.

ink · Oct 31, 2004, 04:34 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Oh come on. Every games that comes out for all platforms always looks best on the xbox.

Yeah, until the next console comes out... It's all stupid; this whole "exclusive only for BLAH" mentality that the console makers have is silly. Microsoft is just as guilty as Nintendo in that department; although most good XBox games are shortly ported to the PC, where they look/play much better.

Or, to put it another way, wouldn't Safari run a lot faster on a 3Ghz HT Xeon? Why does Apple even bother....? (speaking of which, why does MacNN have to animate the all emoticons.. they make Safari slower than molasses on my 500Mhz G3 here)

I picked up my Metroid Prime 2 T-shirt from EB the other day (pre-ordered it before they had the shirts); I hope it's as good as the "original" was.

CreepingDeth · Oct 31, 2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Oh come on. Every games that comes out for all platforms always looks best on the xbox.

That's right! Even if MP looked great on GC with no cookie-cutter designs or framerate problems, it'd totally roxxors on Xbox!!!!1!!

Looks like you're jealous. Sorry MS can't make a game on their own without it being a tech demo.