[nredman]

BOULDER, Colo. - Researchers in Colorado have made a startling discovery. Fish, apparently male, are developing female sexual organs. Scientists believe it's the result of too much estrogen in the water and they're finding estrogen in rivers across the country.

In Colorado's rivers and streams, scientists are waist-deep in ritual of the season, using electric currents to stun native fish to the surface where they're measured and checked. But what they discovered in the white sucker fish has got even veteran scientists concerned.

"I've done a lot of studies throughout my career which extends back to 1973," says research associate John Woodling. “This is the very first time that what I've found scared me."

"This fish has characteristics of both male and female," says Dr. David O. Norris of the University of Colorado, Boulder.

And scientists have found lots of them in three Colorado rivers, all of them downstream from sewage treatment plants.

In the Boulder Creek, female white suckers outnumbered males five to one and 50 percent of the males also had female sex tissue.

Researchers say the cause is too much estrogen in the water, a natural female hormone that is found in every sewer system. But also, they say, certain chemical compounds in detergents and soaps can mimic estrogen.

Barbara Biggs, of Denver's largest sewage plant, says most of the nation's sewage plants simply can't remove all the estrogen in the water.

"We're concerned about the effect on aquatic life, but we're also concerned about our ability to actually treat for these estrogens and estrogen mimickers," says Biggs.

Estrogen mimickers are believed to be caused by chemicals called nonylphenols, found in everything from paints and rubber to cosmetics and plastics. They are considered a possible cause of kidney, eye, liver and reproductive problems._

They’ve been banned in much of Europe and are under review in Canada, but are still common in America, where they are flowing out of sewage plants and into clean water flowing into America's rivers.

Government researchers recently found natural estrogens and estrogen mimickers in 80 percent of the streams they tested in 30 states.

"We would be ingesting those chemicals, would absorb them, and they would add to whatever natural hormones we already have in the body," says Dr. Norris.

No one is certain what the impact is on humans. But since finding evidence that estrogen may be turning male fish into female fish, scientists are now looking at what it means for the nation's drinking water.

In a state that prides itself on living in harmony with nature, this is evidence, say researchers, of a hormonal imbalance.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6436617/

[cold_reality]

I got two words: F*cked Up.

[voyageur]

As the article says, a number of synthetic chemicals mimic estrogen. These include some common pesticides and herbicides. Scientists have been looking into the possible effects for some years now. Some speculate that the drop in sperm count in American men over the past decades may be caused by environmental estrogenic compounds.

[m a d r a]

is that why so many american men have tits then? i thought they were just fat b@stards!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Surprisingly enough, European studies show industrial effluent has relatively little estrogenic steriods...besides Nonylphenol and Bisphenol-A, present in rather small amounts.

Domestic sewage actually often contains enough estrogenic steriods present in concentrations high enough to account for much estrogenic activity. One of the most biologically potent, and resitant to biodegradation, is the synthetic steriod ethinylestradiol...the active ingredient in most birth control pills!

Chronic exposure of fish to quite low, even nominal concentrations of ethinylestradiol stimulates vitellogenesis, which is a protein synthesized in the liver when it's had estrogenic stimulation. Vitellogenesis is highly correlated with feminization of fish (ovipositors, oocytes in testes).

Anyone familiar with the Experimental Lakes Area in northwestern Ontario, Canada can look up Lake 260, the Estrogen Addition Lake (study done from 1999-2003). Their usage of 17a-ethynylestradiol (EE2), from birth control pills, resulted in massive (9000x in males) levels of vitellogenin after only a year, and the complete failure of reproduced young after 2 years.

Anyways, it's some pretty crazy stuff...sorry for the terminology, but this is kinda my area of interest at the moment.

greg

[waxcrash]

Originally posted by m a d r a:
is that why so many american men have tits then? i thought they were just fat b@stards!

Yeah, it's causing American men to get tits, but it is also why 14 year-old American girls have the body and chest of a 21 year-old.

[wataru]

This is an old problem. Do a search for "environmental estrogens," and you'll find mountains of information about it.

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Yeah, it's causing American men to get tits, but it is also why 14 year-old American girls have the body and chest of a 21 year-old.

Yep, the average age for girls entering puberty is getting younger all the time.

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Yeah, it's causing American men to get tits, but it is also why 14 year-old American girls have the body and chest of a 21 year-old.

Sigh…if only that were true. It must be pretty clean around here, because most of the chicks around here are porkers.

[macaddict0001]

why spend money on expensive gender change operations when you can do it for free.

[badidea]

Originally posted by waxcrash:
Yeah, it's causing American men to get tits, but it is also why 14 year-old American girls have the body and chest of a 21 year-old.

[Ali G]So are there any negative effects?[/Ali G]

[OreoCookie]

I heard that it works with frogs, too …_:creepy:

[Millennium]

Originally posted by OreoCookie:
I heard that it works with frogs, too …_:creepy:

There are some frogs which do it naturally. In some species, gender isn't actually determined by genetics. For example, in crocodiles gender is determined by the relative temperature of the eggs' incubation. Relatively cool eggs produce males, while relatively warm eggs produce females (I hope I don't have that backwards).

As for the idea of there being too much estrogen (and synthetic estrogen-imitating chemicals) in the water and some common hygeine products such as shampoo, this is also not news. The age at which girls hit puberty has been dropping for decades.

Going back to crocodiles for a second, even though gender isn't determined by genetics, hormones still play a role. There have been studies of male crocodiles over the years, and in more heavily-polluted areas there has been a measured decrease in the length of the penises of local male crocodiles. I don't believe anyone has made similar studies in humans, but the implications are chilling, to say the least.

[TheBadgerHunter]

Huh? I've been keeping various kinds of fish for years and I've seen this plenty in live-bearers of all kinds.

[voyageur]

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Huh? I've been keeping various kinds of fish for years and I've seen this plenty in live-bearers of all kinds.

You mean changing sex? Yes, you're right. In some types of fish (e.g., parrot fish) sex-change is the normal progression of development as a fish ages. The Colorado fish are being studied because they do not normally change sex.

In men, most naturally-occurring estrogen is converted from testosterone. Thus there are at least two ways you can increase a man's estrogen level: by speeding up the conversion process, or by adding synthetic estrogen.

As for the dropping age of puberty in girls over past decades, this may or may not be affected by estrogen in the water. We know that nutrition plays a major role. Better nutrition = lower onset of puberty. Moreover, the increase in obesity in girls is important because fat cells can produce estrogen too, not just the ovaries.

[itistoday]

Originally posted by Millennium:
There are some frogs which do it naturally. In some species, gender isn't actually determined by genetics. For example, in crocodiles gender is determined by the relative temperature of the eggs' incubation. Relatively cool eggs produce males, while relatively warm eggs produce females (I hope I don't have that backwards).

As for the idea of there being too much estrogen (and synthetic estrogen-imitating chemicals) in the water and some common hygeine products such as shampoo, this is also not news. The age at which girls hit puberty has been dropping for decades.

Going back to crocodiles for a second, even though gender isn't determined by genetics, hormones still play a role. There have been studies of male crocodiles over the years, and in more heavily-polluted areas there has been a measured decrease in the length of the penises of local male crocodiles. I don't believe anyone has made similar studies in humans, but the implications are chilling, to say the least.

You're just full of useful information, aren't you!

[TheBadgerHunter]

Originally posted by voyageur:
You mean changing sex? Yes, you're right. In some types of fish (e.g., parrot fish) sex-change is the normal progression of development as a fish ages. The Colorado fish are being studied because they do not normally change sex.

For me it happened most often in platys and swordfish. I believe only happened to males. Other than that I only know its not normal.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Gross, I hope Canada bans it soon.

[TheBadgerHunter]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Gross, I hope Canada bans it soon.

Don't worry, the US will decide that ours belongs to them and steal it from us.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Basically, this sort of thing is an endocrine system disruptor, and has been mentioned it's been noted for quite some time. However, real study on the effect on organisms in the wild is only lately coming into its own.

As an aside, sperm count in European males has decreased and incidence of testicular cancer increased at a significant rate over the last century or so, and this can be correlated to areas of high concentrations of endocrine disrupting chemicals (Norway, Germany, etc). It certainly hasn't been proven to be a direct cause, but it's still a discomforting statistic.

As for frogs, yes, reproductive normalities have been found in frogs, although there is some controversy. Tyrone Hayes of I believe the University of California has done research which suggests atrazine (a widespread herbicide) exposure causes reproductive abnormalities in frogs. Of course, for what it's worth industry-backed scientists have disputed the findings....

Lake Apopka, Florida, had a major pesticide spill of DDT and dicofol in 1980, and has atrazine and fertilizer (ie. Nitrate) runoff. Alligators of all types in the lake show abnormal gonads, and females have elevated estrogen in hatchlings and produce non-viable eggs. Males produce sperm at premature eggs, and they got shafted because their penises are 25% smaller than normal.

There are tons of examples...Tributyltin (TBT) is an anti-fouling paint that was used on ship hulls to keep them clean. It's been found to suppress the enzyme aromatase, which converts androgen to estrogen. Basically, female gastropods don't get the estrogen so you end up with a condition called imposex, where you have a female with superimposed male sex organs.

Anyways, it's certainly come under more study recently.

greg