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Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 3, 2004, 01:33 AM

"They're ripping the tracheas and esophagi out of fully conscious animals, dumping them out of pens into pools of their own blood. The animals stand and bellow and attempt to escape for up to three and even four minutes in some cases," Bruce Friedrich, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, said late Tuesday."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,140117,00.html

demograph68 · Dec 3, 2004, 01:37 AM

Yummy

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 3, 2004, 01:41 AM

Originally posted by demograph68:
Yummy

Funny

PacHead · Dec 3, 2004, 01:53 AM

Was peta saying something ?

demograph68 · Dec 3, 2004, 01:54 AM

Well, that's too bad.

fireside · Dec 3, 2004, 02:17 AM

but, but, but, its kosher!

TubaMuffins · Dec 3, 2004, 02:57 AM

curse PETA, always ruining everything. they show those sick videos everyday in the student union right in the food court.

roberto blanco · Dec 3, 2004, 03:14 AM

what really gets me are people who see this, just shrug their shoulders and make some kind of retarded cynical comment.

yet, when it comes to abortion or the right of two adults of the same sex to get married, they scream bloody 'murder'.

pfff

benign · Dec 3, 2004, 04:39 AM

People always want their murdering to be hygienic.

We need some good pics of the aftermath of downtown baghdad
after a good christian army bashing with 'precise' missile bombardment
to go with that burger and freedom fries baby, yeah!

Y3a · Dec 3, 2004, 06:12 AM

Killing animals for food. Yeah, so?? We ARE ANIMALS ourselves, since we have, as a species NOT mastered civilization yet. it really looks more like an anti-Jewish story to me. It's like making sausage, nobody wants to know how it's done. hell, middle-easterners kill each other this way! The real choices are eat plants or eat meat and plants.

Eat well, Stay fit, and DIE ANYWAY!!

nooon · Dec 3, 2004, 06:18 AM

what the hell is tracheas and esophagi anyway?

Zimphire · Dec 3, 2004, 06:20 AM

Originally posted by benign:
after a good christian army bashing

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
This has been mentioned before, but some people don't seem to get the message: take your religious debate elsewhere. THIS IS A ****ING MAC FORUM. People are getting sick of it. I'm getting sick of. Let it go or leave.

Big Mac · Dec 3, 2004, 08:10 AM

If reported accurately, such practices are certainly "not kosher," in both the literal and popular use of the term. Anything other than a quick, clean slaughter of the animal is a violation of biblical dietary laws. I am quite suspicious of the testimony of PETA - not the most scrupulous of organizations and certainly not a neutral source on the subject.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 3, 2004, 09:24 AM

Originally posted by Y3a:
Killing animals for food. Yeah, so?? We ARE ANIMALS ourselves, since we have, as a species NOT mastered civilization yet. it really looks more like an anti-Jewish story to me. It's like making sausage, nobody wants to know how it's done. hell, middle-easterners kill each other this way! The real choices are eat plants or eat meat and plants.

Eat well, Stay fit, and DIE ANYWAY!!

Anti-Jewish? How about anti-cruel!

Was the KFC story anti-American?

wdlove · Dec 3, 2004, 09:51 AM

Some people are just very cruel, I wonder how they can live with themselves.

How would they feel if their children were mistreated?

Sherwin · Dec 3, 2004, 10:17 AM

This story comes as no surprise. The issue of cruelty in ritual slaughter is happening here too, with a lot of influential professional animal welfare bodies (vets, etc.) calling for it to end.

Halal and kosher should be banned in the western world, for no other reason than the fact that everyone else has to use stun guns. One rule for all, no exceptions. Don't like that rule? Go veggie or emigrate.

Mithras · Dec 3, 2004, 10:32 AM

This is the video:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video....amp;speed=_med

It's terrible. Even if you eat meat, this is utterly and obviously inhumane.

Oisín · Dec 3, 2004, 10:47 AM

Originally posted by Y3a:
Killing animals for food. Yeah, so?? We ARE ANIMALS ourselves, since we have, as a species NOT mastered civilization yet. it really looks more like an anti-Jewish story to me. It's like making sausage, nobody wants to know how it's done. hell, middle-easterners kill each other this way! The real choices are eat plants or eat meat and plants.

I think you missed the point. Killing the animals for food wasn't the problem, it was killing them it what is pretty much the most innecessarily cruel, torturous and inhuman way they could think of.

"Hell, Middle-Easterners kill each other this way"? Really looks more like anti-Middle-East post to me. Not only Middle-Easterners kill each other that way, and it doesn't matter who's doing it, it doesn't make it more right. However, there is still a difference. The Middle-Easterners (and others) who kill each other this cruelly are usually enemies, or have some other good reason which justifies (to themselves at least) it. In this case, there was no such thing. There's no reason whatsoever to put these animals through that kind of torture instead of just making a clean kill.

PacHead · Dec 3, 2004, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by roberto blanco:
what really gets me are people who see this, just shrug their shoulders and make some kind of retarded cynical comment.

yet, when it comes to abortion or the right of two adults of the same sex to get married, they scream bloody 'murder'.

pfff

One is natural, the other is not. Oh and by the way, peta can lick my testicles. Those people suck.

SSharon · Dec 3, 2004, 11:14 AM

When I first heard of this I was shocked, as a person, and as a Kosher keeping Jew. I watched the video and after some reading though have decided that this is more PETA trying to be in the news than anything else. Listen to this interview to get the other half of this story. Kosher plants are watched more closely than any other and since PETA is not a group of neurologists I am not inclined to believe them when they say the animal feels pain after the shechita process.

Sure the video looks gross, but I think it would look pretty similar at any plant in the US. PETA has their own goal in everything they do and there is nothing wrong with that, its just I don't agree with them.

scaught · Dec 3, 2004, 11:15 AM

Originally posted by Mithras:
This is the video:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video....amp;speed=_med

It's terrible. Even if you eat meat, this is utterly and obviously inhumane.

uh. ya. i love hamburgers though dude. who cares. its just a stupid animal. its like, photoshopped. peta is gay.

/sarcasm

ive been a vegetarian for almost 10 years. that, is insane. who could watch that animal writhe on the ground every day 8 hours a day as a job?

demograph68 · Dec 3, 2004, 01:01 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
This is the video:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video....amp;speed=_med

It's terrible. Even if you eat meat, this is utterly and obviously inhumane.

That just made me vomit...

TubaMuffins · Dec 3, 2004, 01:39 PM

I am never going to give up eating meat, I disagree with PETAs radicalism but I do wish things were conducted differently and more humane in the treatment of animals raised to be sluaghtered. That video was horrible to watch.

Woehrle46 · Dec 3, 2004, 01:55 PM

I dont see what all the whining is about. This is in no way different from a predator killing it's prey and then eating it. Just in this case humans have found a more efficient way of doing it than running them down and then ripping their throats out with teeth. If anything this is equally if not more humane than the way they would have died being eaten by another animal. Just accept the fact that this is what is supposed to happen and get on with it.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 3, 2004, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Woehrle46:
I dont see what all the whining is about. This is in no way different from a predator killing it's prey and then eating it. Just in this case humans have found a more efficient way of doing it than running them down and then ripping their throats out with teeth. If anything this is equally if not more humane than the way they would have died being eaten by another animal. Just accept the fact that this is what is supposed to happen and get on with it.

Humans usually think of themselves as above animals.

Should you also leave your sick grandma behind if she can't keep up the pace?

Zimphire · Dec 3, 2004, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Humans usually think of themselves as above animals.

Should you also leave your sick grandma behind if she can't keep up the pace?

Your comparisons haven't improved.

Millennium · Dec 3, 2004, 02:03 PM

Something doesn't smell right here. Ripping out an animal's trachea while it's still alive is most certainly not allowed by either Jewish or Islamic law as kosher or halal, respectively. Someone is lying through their teeth on this one.

To be honest, I suspect PETA here. Both kosher and halal slaughterhouses must be inspected regularly by a cleric of the corresponding faith. Although it's possible that one or two clerics might be bribable to look the other way for minor offenses, there is no way that a slaughterhouse could cover up something like this. This story would have been brought forward long ago, if it were true.

Millennium · Dec 3, 2004, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by Sherwin:
Halal and kosher should be banned in the western world, for no other reason than the fact that everyone else has to use stun guns. One rule for all, no exceptions. Don't like that rule? Go veggie or emigrate.

That would, incidentally, by a very serious breach of the right to freedom of religion, something recognized in virtually all Western nations. Are you prepared to do that?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 3, 2004, 02:06 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Something doesn't smell right here. Ripping out an animal's trachea while it's still alive is most certainly not allowed by either Jewish or Islamic law as kosher or halal, respectively. Someone is lying through their teeth on this one.

To be honest, I suspect PETA here. Both kosher and halal slaughterhouses must be inspected regularly by a cleric of the corresponding faith. Although it's possible that one or two clerics might be bribable to look the other way for minor offenses, there is no way that a slaughterhouse could cover up something like this. This story would have been brought forward long ago, if it were true.

So what you are saying is if you part of a religion it is followed 100% without breaking any rules?

Must we really get into the current wars with their "beliefs" of choir boys being molested?

Zimphire · Dec 3, 2004, 02:09 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
So what you are saying is if you part of a religion it is followed 100% without breaking any rules?

Must we really get into the current wars with their "beliefs" of choir boys being molested?

Different religion, and another bad comparison

Eug Wanker · Dec 3, 2004, 02:15 PM

I never trust PETA.

However, it definitely can be argued that Kosher animal slaughtering methods in use are less humane than conventional ones. Yes, the Kosher method can be very clean but what is at issue is the fact that in Kosher slaughterhouses, the animal is not stunned first.

Here is the argument by another animal advocacy group, presented by the BBC:

Halal and Kosher slaughter 'must end'

MindFad · Dec 3, 2004, 02:15 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
This is the video:
http://www.petatv.com/tvpopup/video....amp;speed=_med

It's terrible. Even if you eat meat, this is utterly and obviously inhumane.

I eat meat, and I realize the industrialized consumer world always will, but that is ****ing terrible. Still, I can't see people caring enough to try and stop it. It is certainly disgusting, yet obviously efficient, and I think that's all these companies care about.

xi_hyperon · Dec 3, 2004, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Millennium:
Something doesn't smell right here. Ripping out an animal's trachea while it's still alive is most certainly not allowed by either Jewish or Islamic law as kosher or halal, respectively. Someone is lying through their teeth on this one.

To be honest, I suspect PETA here. Both kosher and halal slaughterhouses must be inspected regularly by a cleric of the corresponding faith. Although it's possible that one or two clerics might be bribable to look the other way for minor offenses, there is no way that a slaughterhouse could cover up something like this. This story would have been brought forward long ago, if it were true.

Well, it happened somewhere, obviously. I doubt PETA would name a specific company, as they did in the video, unless it could be proven that that is where the recording took place. Aside from issue of cruelty, WTF benefit is supposed to be gained by killing the cows in such a horrible manner?

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 3, 2004, 02:21 PM

Originally posted by MindFad:
I eat meat, and I realize the industrialized consumer world always will, but that is ****ing terrible. Still, I can't see people caring enough to try and stop it. It is certainly disgusting, yet obviously efficient, and I think that's all these companies care about.

Why don't you take the first step?. One person does make a difference.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 3, 2004, 02:47 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Why don't you take the first step?. One person does make a difference.

Oh grow up. Your silly little moral abhorrence for an animal dying is pathetic. Why do humans feel the need to sanitize things. There isn't anything pretty about killing millions of animals a day. There isn't anything pretty about wild animals ripping out throats. The animals don't know the difference, pretending that by not eating meat you're sparing lives is horribly knave.

Eug Wanker · Dec 3, 2004, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
There isn't anything pretty about killing millions of animals a day. There isn't anything pretty about wild animals ripping out throats.

No there isn't, but at least humane killing is better than inhumane killing.

The animals don't know the difference

Sure they do. You'd be hard pressed to find a vet to state otherwise.

pretending that by not eating meat you're sparing lives is horribly knave.

Mithras · Dec 3, 2004, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Oh grow up. Your silly little moral abhorrence for an animal dying is pathetic. Why do humans feel the need to sanitize things. There isn't anything pretty about killing millions of animals a day. There isn't anything pretty about wild animals ripping out throats. The animals don't know the difference, pretending that by not eating meat you're sparing lives is horribly knave.

The animals might not "know the difference" between dying in the wilds and dying in a factory farm, but they definitely "know the difference" between a humane and an inhumane life and death.

We consumers cause millions of animals to be born, raised, and die. Of course you're sparing lives if you refrain from eating meat. Not very many, but some.

Moreover, if you do eat meat, you can make an effort to only buy or eat meat that comes from sources that are reputable. e.g. look for the Certified Humane label; look up the stores carrying it here:
http://www.certifiedhumane.com/where.asp

"Certified Humane" still permits some practices that I, for one, wouldn't consider such, like tail-docking. But it's better than factory farming.

Albert Pujols · Dec 3, 2004, 03:06 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
pretending that by not eating meat you're sparing lives is horribly knave.

ehm, the word you should have used is naive. A knave is a male servant.

I wonder if vegans know that Jello, Skittles and marshmellows etc.. contain gelatin. Gelatin comes from meat. My teacher was a vegan. He thought it was wrong to eat meat, because it involved the 'murder' of animals, but he had no problem eating some Jello.

Vegans..

Peter · Dec 3, 2004, 03:09 PM

yeah this is a REALLY funny subject.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 3, 2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Oh grow up. Your silly little moral abhorrence for an animal dying is pathetic. Why do humans feel the need to sanitize things. There isn't anything pretty about killing millions of animals a day. There isn't anything pretty about wild animals ripping out throats. The animals don't know the difference, pretending that by not eating meat you're sparing lives is horribly knave.

Millions of people die every day in other parts of the world through horrible acts, so why are Americans still feeling sorry for themselves for 9/11?

Idiot.

Peter · Dec 3, 2004, 03:13 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Millions of people die every day in other parts of the world through horrible acts, so why are Americans still feeling sorry for themselves for 9/11?

Idiot.

because no one attacks the loveable-cute-usa.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 3, 2004, 03:24 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
The animals might not "know the difference" between dying in the wilds and dying in a factory farm, but they definitely "know the difference" between a humane and an inhumane life and death.

We consumers cause millions of animals to be born, raised, and die. Of course you're sparing lives if you refrain from eating meat. Not very many, but some.

Moreover, if you do eat meat, you can make an effort to only buy or eat meat that comes from sources that are reputable. e.g. look for the Certified Humane label; look up the stores carrying it here:
http://www.certifiedhumane.com/where.asp

"Certified Humane" still permits some practices that I, for one, wouldn't consider such, like tail-docking. But it's better than factory farming.

Yes yes, I agree completely. I sell carcass incinerators, I should know how inhumane most farms are. I was talking about vegans (of which starwars guy is promoting).

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 3, 2004, 03:27 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Millions of people die every day in other parts of the world through horrible acts, so why are Americans still feeling sorry for themselves for 9/11?

Idiot.

Because most americans have no real concept of life. Most americans did not have relatives in 9/11 but somehow feel blind rage. Stem cell research is stalled (a potentially ground-breaking technology) yet over 1 million abortions happen a year.

Fool.

Severed Hand of Skywalker · Dec 3, 2004, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Yes yes, I agree completely. I sell carcass incinerators, I should know how inhumane most farms are. I was talking about vegans (of which starwars guy is promoting).

Actually I stopped eating red meat more because I didn't like it and I think it is unhealthily, what you are saying is that vegetarians are idiots.

Idiot.

Millennium · Dec 3, 2004, 03:33 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
So what you are saying is if you part of a religion it is followed 100% without breaking any rules?

No, but I do believe that most clergy are honest in their beliefs, and would not allow a company to defraud their faiths by pretending to sell food which complies with religious dietary restrictions when in fact it does not. Most religious faiths would hold such defrauded people blameless, but to take part in that deception would be considered a very serious crime.

Must we really get into the current wars with their "beliefs" of choir boys being molested?

Huh? I don't understand this sentence; could you clarify?

Eug Wanker · Dec 3, 2004, 03:36 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Actually I stopped eating red meat more because I didn't like it and I think it is unhealthily

Eating red meat can be very healthy. However, most North Americans (including vegetarians) have unhealthy diets.

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Yes yes, I agree completely. I sell carcass incinerators, I should know how inhumane most farms are. I was talking about vegans (of which starwars guy is promoting).

SHOS is not a vegan, as you might have already guessed from his post above.

BTW, for the record, I eat red meat, and occasionally will eat Halal meat too (depending on what the restaurant serves).

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 3, 2004, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Actually I stopped eating red meat more because I didn't like it and I think it is unhealthily, what you are saying is that vegetarians are idiots.

Idiot.

No, I'm saying they are fools (the ones that have moral/ethical objections). Red meat is no less healthy than any other meat in most respects.

Albert Pujols · Dec 3, 2004, 03:49 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
I eat red meat, and occasionally will eat Halal meat too (depending on what the restaurant serves).

You're Muslim? I occasionally eat halal meat myself, thats when my mom buys some at the farm.

I love halal marshmellows though.

MacNStein · Dec 3, 2004, 03:55 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Because most americans have no real concept of life. Most americans did not have relatives in 9/11 but somehow feel blind rage. Stem cell research is stalled (a potentially ground-breaking technology) yet over 1 million abortions happen a year.

Fool.

and this is stopping Canada from doing the research?

Eug Wanker · Dec 3, 2004, 03:57 PM

Originally posted by Albert Pujols:
You're Muslim? I occasionally eat halal meat myself, thats when my mom buys some at the farm.

My family is not religious, and even it were, it wouldn't be Islam since we have no relatives who are Muslim.

I just like some of the middle eastern restaurants around here.