[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Do you agree with this? Is the whole religious view of marriage JUST to have kids? Can't you do that without being married? Do we need birth control anymore? Doesn't this sound like creating children just to be slaves?

"“The whole concept of marriage is to bring forth a godly seed, to bring forth children who will grow up to serve the Lord. That’s what marriage is about and it is about nothing else. It has nothing to do with these hedonists, self-absorbed hedonists, if you will, that want to
impose their particular sexuality on the rest of America.”
Evangelist Pat Robertson speaks against gay marriage on his Christian Broadcasting Network show The 700 Club on Nov. 30 "

[Mastrap]

'Impose their sexuality'?

That guy is a total idiot. I've been hit on by a fair number of gay guys (I used to work in London's Soho, our offices were just off Old Compton Street, the main gay street) but once they found out that I wasn't all that interested none of them ever tried to 'turn' me in any way, shape or form. I always took it as a compliment.

My wife and I got married because we love each other. I can't see any reason why gay men and women shouldn't get married for the same (or any other) reason.

[GoGoReggieXPowars]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
Do we need birth control anymore?

I'd say we certainly ****ing do! (no pun indtended)

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by GoGoReggieXPowars:
I'd say we certainly ****ing do! (no pun indtended)

Well they are making it sound like marriage is needed in the mix for kids.

[roberto blanco]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
"... It has nothing to do with these hedonists, self-absorbed hedonists..."

uuuuuuhhhh..uhhhhhhh...those bad bad eeeeevil hedonists...who just like to fu<k fu<k fu<k....uuuhhhhh...soooooooo dirty.



BWAAAAAHAAAHAAA!!!!

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
"It has nothing to do with these hedonists, self-absorbed hedonists, if you will, that want to impose their particular sexuality on the rest of America.”

For me that line is the best part.

First off:
he·don·ism __

Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
Philosophy. The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
Psychology. The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

Is is just me or is the whole point of HEAVEN that it is PLEASURE and paradise and to avoid the PAIN of hell. The whole point of being good is to get into heaven. Not to mention don't many religious try to push their believes on others.

So in other words he is saying they are "self-absorbed hedonists" because they are gay.
Yet the whole religion, heaven and converting bit is the irony.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

what's worse?

a marriage that has lots of kids that ends in divorce (divorce rates are high people)

or gay marriage?




my parents divorced. i'm pretty normal but it was not am ideal union like pat robertson insists. i would have preferred being raised by gays over 2 people that hated each other.

[turtle777]

What is the point of SWG's posts ?

-t

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by turtle777:
What is the point of SWG's posts ?

-t

What is the point of yours or asking for that matter?

[mikellanes]

As far as I remember back when I was a religious fellow, Marriage in my church was considered a bond with Jesus Christ and a joining of two persons in a spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ. Pre marital sex was condemned in any form so I guess the child thing kinda goes with the territory.

As for me personally, I am engaged and will probably marry some time in the far far future, we are however expecting our first child and in my view this do not necessitate a wedding or a marriage.

I really don't see a point to marriage without a religious view, though I do suppose some people would have it symbolize a promise (of whatever is agreed on) to your significant other. I guess people view marriage as a relationship in which you can't just "break-up" with each other, even-though 50%? do? I dunno seems silly to me.

Personally I refer to my Fiancée as my Significant Other and it suits us just fine.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally posted by mikellanes:
I really don't see a point to marriage without a religious view, though I do suppose some people would have it symbolize a promise (of whatever is agreed on) to your significant other. I guess people view marriage as a relationship in which you can't just "break-up" with each other, even-though 50%? do? I dunno seems silly to me.

Exactly, what is the point of a PROMISE when 50% of them end up breaking up. If you throw in the percentage of people that are unhappy/cheating but don't want to get a divorce for whatever reason than it is even more scary. So much for sacred promise.

[CD Hanks]

Heh, marriage doesn't really do anything. It's like saying "you're it", but you can't say "you're it" to more than one person. It doesn't change anything; it's just an arbitrary title.

For most people, it's just a way of throwing a party to celebrate themselves. It's their way of stupidly saying "hay remember that relationship that me and lucy have been in for the past three years? Yeah, well it's going to remain exactly the same, except we're going to give it an arbitrary title, and we want you to come to this big party we're throwing so you can give us gifts, and tell us how pretty we are, and tell stories about us, and take pictures of us, and waste your whole sunday, and then it'll be the exact same relationship afterwards!"

****ing egomaniacs.

How can the state recognize a marriage? If it's just for tax breaks, ****ing incorperate. Why would you invite lawyers into love? That's all marriage does. How can you take something as completely intangible as love, and then enter it into a legally binding document? That's like signing a contract promising to be lucky! Forever! How can you commit to an emotion? "I promise to be scared of you for the rest of my life." I mean, fine, be in love, but if it stops, just still be able to walk away. Just don't be financially responsible for it going away.

[undotwa]

Originally posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker:
For me that line is the best part.

First off:
he·don·ism __

Pursuit of or devotion to pleasure, especially to the pleasures of the senses.
Philosophy. The ethical doctrine holding that only what is pleasant or has pleasant consequences is intrinsically good.
Psychology. The doctrine holding that behavior is motivated by the desire for pleasure and the avoidance of pain.

Is is just me or is the whole point of HEAVEN that it is PLEASURE and paradise and to avoid the PAIN of hell. The whole point of being good is to get into heaven. Not to mention don't many religious try to push their believes on others.

So in other words he is saying they are "self-absorbed hedonists" because they are gay.
Yet the whole religion, heaven and converting bit is the irony.

No, we want to go to heaven because that is what God wills for all mankind to do.

[OSX Abuser]

Marriage used to be a promise before god, but now it is just a Tax break.

Here in the USA for the most part

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by OSX Abuser:
Marriage used to be a promise before god, but now it is just a Tax break.

Here in the USA for the most part

Then explain the "marriage peanalty".

Getting married without children used to mean you paid more taxes. Now those who get married pay the same as single people do in taxes. There is no tax benefit to getting married.

The only tax benefit is having kids. Then you have deductions. And marriage dosen't affect that in any way.

Marriage is the joining of two people forever. A biblical Church doesn't believe in divorce. Ever notice how the Church is not involved in a divorce but they are in a marriage? They don't want it to happen.

Divorce is the result of sin. People are sinners. Therefore, you have divorces.

There has been soo much FUD earlier in this thread.

And not all marriages result in children. But the bible tells Christians that they are to wait for sex until marriage. And if you have sex, you are probably going to have children. You can use birth control in a marriage. My wife and I do. We aren't ready for a second child yet so we protect ourselves from that happening.

Children are a gift from God and a direct result of sex at the right time. They are not "slaves". It is someone to love and raise and hopefully take care of me in my old age because they love me, not because I "own" them.

Hthe bible's view on gay marriage. People of the same sex shouldn't have sex. Therefore there's no biblical reason for them to get married. If two people of the same sex love each other, good for them. But there's no reason for them to get married.

Lastly, Pat Robertson is a verbose idiot. Not many people listen to him. And certainly not many conservative Christians.

Oh, and surprise surprise. A anti-Christian thread started by SWF.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by undotwa:
No, we want to go to heaven because that is what God wills for all mankind to do.

i am really a middle of the road type of guy. i dont enjoy dissing any idea especially religion.

but a lot of religion has me scratching my head and saying WTF?

"No, we want to go to heaven because that is what God wills for all mankind to do."

what does that mean? i was born raised in NYC so I am skeptical about everything. what's inside that hotdog to what the "good book" says.

I wonder if you people realize that some people hear the things you say and wonder "WTF is this dude talking about?" the whole secrecy and faith has been thinking more of organized religion a closer to cult than enlightenment.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Then explain the "marriage peanalty".

Getting married without children used to mean you paid more taxes. Now those who get married pay the same as single people do in taxes. There is no tax benefit to getting married.

The only tax benefit is having kids. Then you have deductions. And marriage dosen't affect that in any way.

No SWG did not make a deliberate "anti-christian" thread. to me this is normal speak. to you it's offensive.

and thank you for telling me married folk dont get extra priveleges. now no hoes will ever pin me down!!!!

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Marriage is the joining of two people forever. A biblical Church doesn't believe in divorce. Ever notice how the Church is not involved in a divorce but they are in a marriage? They don't want it to happen.

Divorce is the result of sin. People are sinners. Therefore, you have divorces.

So everyone is a sinner even if you don't get a divorce? Do people who divorce go to hell?

[wdlove]

When I got married, wasn't a Christian. We were in love. Now our Christina faith is primary. Without Jesus there is nothing to life, he is reason for life.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by wdlove:
Without Jesus there is nothing to MY life, he is reason for MY life.

I fixed it so it didn't sound as damn creepy.

[khufuu]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
I fixed it so it didn't sound as damn creepy.

Why? He/she is creepy!

[khufuu]

Marriage is a religious thing. It should stay there.

If the gov't wants to grant certain rights to 'married' people, it should call ALL marriages 'civil unions' and ALL divorces 'civil separations' regardless of the sexes of that partners involved.

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by khufuu:
Marriage is a religious thing.

My marriage has nothing to do with religion.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by khufuu:
If the gov't wants to grant certain rights to 'married' people, it should call ALL marriages 'civil unions' and ALL divorces 'civil separations' regardless of the sexes of that partners involved.

I agree, civil unions are fine but I don't even get the point of those.

[wataru]

Originally posted by wdlove:
When I got married, wasn't a Christian. We were in love. Now our Christina faith is primary. Without Jesus there is nothing to life, he is reason for life.

So you gave up your brain for a woman? That's sad, but at the same time I kind of get it.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by khufuu:
Why? He/she is creepy!

If this sounds normal to you than I guess there is no point to explaining it.

"Without Jesus there is nothing to life, he is reason for life."

[khufuu]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
I agree, civil unions are fine but I don't even get the point of those.

I'll give you an example that I heard.

A gay couple had been together for 20+ years and one of them was in the hospital and was on life support. The healthy partner wanted to take the unhealthy one off of life support as a quality of life issue. This would have been fine had they been 'married' (on in a civil union).

Because they weren't (as it was against the law), the sister of the ill person was the only one to make the decision and she decided to maintain life support. The real problem, was that the sister making the decision hadn't even talked to the dying person in more that 10 years and really didn't have any idea about the wishes of her sibling. She just made the decision to maintain life support so she wouldn't feel bad about 'killing' her unhealthy sister.

This is just one example I'm sure but it's the one that I always think of when you people talk about not making gay marriage legal.

[khufuu]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
If this sounds normal to you than I guess there is no point to explaining it.

"Without Jesus there is nothing to life, he is reason for life."

I just said that 'wdlove' was creepy... hence it make sense that what was said sounded creepy. Does that explain it for you?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by khufuu:
This is just one example I'm sure but it's the one that I always think of when you people talk about not making gay marriage legal.

Who said I wanted it illegal? I am for it if anyone wants to but for legal reasons it seems silly. Not to mention it is already legal up here.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
So everyone is a sinner even if you don't get a divorce? Do people who divorce go to hell?

Everyone is a sinner no matter what. Gay, staright, married, divorced, never married, widowed, widower, omnisexual. Everyone.

Being divorced doesn't condemn someone to Hell. Not being a Christian condemns you to Hell. Marriage and Divorce have nothing to do with it.

Remember, Christians are sinners. The only difference is that they are forgiven their sins through their belief in Christ's sacrifice for them. It's really very simple.

Christians aren't perfect. Just forgiven.

Where do you get your twisted beliefs on Christianity SWF?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Not being a Christian condemns you to Hell.

Christians are perfect.

Where do you get your twisted beliefs on Christianity SWF?

Well those 2 things you said above just gave me an even lower or "Twisted" belief on the whole thing.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Apple Pro Underwear:
No SWG did not make a deliberate "anti-christian" thread. to me this is normal speak. to you it's offensive.

and thank you for telling me married folk dont get extra priveleges. now no hoes will ever pin me down!!!!

There are no tax benefits to being married. You deliberately tried to make my post say something it didn't.

Married people get plenty of privileges. Just none that are tax based. There have been many studies that married men have sex more often than single men. One of the many privileges.

Try to prove me wrong.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Well those 2 things you said above just gave me an even lower or "Twisted" belief on the whole thing.

Sorry. I had a typo. It should have read:
Christians aren't perfect. Just forgiven.

But the other one still stands. You don't like it? I feel sorry for you and wish you had the faith I did. I wish I could convince you of it's truth, but you just don't have the faith and belief. I can't control that.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
I feel sorry for you and wish you had the faith I did. I wish I could convince you of it's truth, but you just don't have the faith and belief. I can't control that.

Another "twisted" view. You have a superior attitude that only YOU and the ones that follow your beliefs are correct. I would never say my believes are correct and apply to everyone.

Sick.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
There are no tax benefits to being married. You deliberately tried to make my post say something it didn't.

Married people get plenty of privileges. Just none that are tax based. There have been many studies that married men have sex more often than single men. One of the many privileges.

Try to prove me wrong.

Filing jointly
Joint filing is the most commonly used filing method for married couples. Why?

You have a lower tax liability if there is disparity in the two incomes.
You could be eligible for many credits, such as those for education and dependent care expenses.
Finally, it's easier because it means filing one federal tax return instead of two.
And joint filing will continue to have a lot of appeal for couples, especially now that legislation has helped reduce the so-called marriage tax penalty.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Filing jointly
Joint filing is the most commonly used filing method for married couples. Why?

You have a lower tax liability if there is disparity in the two incomes.
You could be eligible for many credits, such as those for education and dependent care expenses.
Finally, it's easier because it means filing one federal tax return instead of two.
And joint filing will continue to have a lot of appeal for couples, especially now that legislation has helped reduce the so-called marriage tax penalty.

Pure ignorance.

You legally HAVE to file jointly if you can't file singly.

Are you telling me you know the US IRS tax code enough to argue with someone who has been filing taxes in the US since 1987? HA!!!!

Filing jointly puts you in a higher taxe bracket and raises your tax burden. This has only recenty been remedeed with the Bush administration. And now it's equal. No benefit to being married. NEVER has been. There was always a BURDEN.

And being married does not make you "eligible for many credits, such as those for education and dependent care expenses." What rubbish. Quite the opposite is true!!!

You are a very ignorant person. Both about Christianity and US Tax code. Why do you even attempt to argue points about either? Do you like being proven wrong?

[cpt kangarooski]

Kilbey--

Marriage is the joining of two people forever. A biblical Church doesn't believe in divorce.

Really? I must have missed that part. But I do remember Deuteronomy 24:1-4, and it's in the Bible.

When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her: then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give [it] in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man's [wife]. And [if] the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement, and giveth [it] in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die, which took her [to be] his wife; Her former husband, which sent her away, may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that [is] abomination before the LORD: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the LORD thy God giveth thee [for] an inheritance.

IIRC, various Christian religions take all sorts of stands on divorce. For example, the CoE was pretty much founded because Henry VIII didn't wanted to marry someone else, which was pretty much the story of his life. Of course I'm no expert on Christianity.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by cpt kangarooski:
Kilbey--


Really? I must have missed that part. But I do remember Deuteronomy 24:1-4, and it's in the Bible.

IIRC, various Christian religions take all sorts of stands on divorce. For example, the CoE was pretty much founded because Henry VIII didn't wanted to marry someone else, which was pretty much the story of his life. Of course I'm no expert on Christianity.

You must have skipped the New Testament. Go read it, I'll wait.

Reread what I said. I'll post it again for you here: "A biblical Church doesn't believe in divorce."

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Pure ignorance.

You legally HAVE to file jointly if you can't file singly.

"Filing separately
If you file as married filing separately, adverse tax implications include:

You may not be eligible for certain credits, including the earned income credit and education credits.
A non-working spouse won't be able to contribute to an IRA.
Don't overlook state taxes. You may get a federal refund but owe a lot in state taxes.
However, filing separately may be advantageous if one spouse owes money to Uncle Sam and the other is due a refund. Separate filing also may save you taxes if one spouse has significant medical expenses, casualty losses or miscellaneous deductions that must meet a percentage-of-income threshold before they can be claimed.

Remember: a husband and wife filing separate returns must use the same method of claiming deductions. If one itemizes, both must itemize."

[donniedarko]

Originally posted by mikellanes:
As far as I remember back when I was a religious fellow, Marriage in my church was considered a bond with Jesus Christ and a joining of two persons in a spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ.

Marriage is not only a "christian" thing, people get married in all religions, so saying that gays cant get married because it is "a bond with Jesus Christ and a joining of two persons in a spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ" is a load of crap.
definition of marriage:
Marriage:
# The legal union of a man and woman as husband and wife.
# The state of being married; wedlock.
# A common-law marriage.

So banning gay marriage based on the christian view is not only bringing church and state together, but is also discrimination.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by donniedarko:

So banning gay marriage based on the christian view is not only bringing church and state together, but is also discrimination.

Kilbey is proving once again being Christian is all about discrimination.

[donniedarko]

sorry forgot to put the rest of the definition

# A union between two persons having the customary but usually not the legal force of marriage: a same-sex marriage.

^who determines something like that?

[cpt kangarooski]

Kilbey--

You must have skipped the New Testament. Go read it, I'll wait.

No, no. I was good enough to cite chapter and verse. I'm sure you can too. And since you presumably are a Christian, wheras I am not, you'll probably home in on it faster to boot.

(And it's not so much skipped over as never bothered with in the first place)

[ringo]

Point of marriage: Committing to something so strongly that you're willing to risk half of your future earnings on the outcome of a single relationship.

(Married nine years, happily)

Robertson has crazy person eyes, don't listen.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Kilbey is proving once again being Christian is all about discrimination.

I may be doing that, but you would be wrong to believe Christianity is all about discrimination.

Christianity is all about inclusion. Love.

Don't judge Christianity based upon the Christians. Base it upon Christ.

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by cpt kangarooski:
No, no. I was good enough to cite chapter and verse. I'm sure you can too. And since you presumably are a Christian, wheras I am not, you'll probably home in on it faster to boot.

(And it's not so much skipped over as never bothered with in the first place)

O.K. Here you go: (I will admit I was slightly wrong. Divorce is allowed for infidelity)

Matthew 19:1-10

1___When Jesus had finished these words, He departed from Galilee and came into the region of Judea beyond the Jordan;
2___and large crowds followed Him, and He healed them there.
3___Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, "Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?"
4___And He answered and said, "Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE,
5___and said, 'FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH'?
6___"So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate."
7___They said to Him, "Why then did Moses command to GIVE HER A CERTIFICATE OF DIVORCE AND SEND her AWAY?"
8___He said to them, "Because of your hardness of heart Moses permitted you to divorce your wives; but from the beginning it has not been this way.
9___"And I say to you, whoever divorces his wife, except for immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery."
10___The disciples said to Him, "If the relationship of the man with his wife is like this, it is better not to marry."

[Kilbey]

what's with the quotation marks? Are those your words or a copy/paste from a site?

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
"Filing separately
If you file as married filing separately, adverse tax implications include:

You may not be eligible for certain credits, including the earned income credit and education credits.
A non-working spouse won't be able to contribute to an IRA.
Don't overlook state taxes. You may get a federal refund but owe a lot in state taxes.
However, filing separately may be advantageous if one spouse owes money to Uncle Sam and the other is due a refund. Separate filing also may save you taxes if one spouse has significant medical expenses, casualty losses or miscellaneous deductions that must meet a percentage-of-income threshold before they can be claimed.

Remember: a husband and wife filing separate returns must use the same method of claiming deductions. If one itemizes, both must itemize."

And a single person used to still pay less taxes than a married couple whether they filed their taxes singly or jointly. Those numbers are very close now but Single people still pay less taxes. There is NO BENEFIT ON YOUR TAXES IF YOU ARE MARRIED. There used to be a huge detriment, but that has ben reduced. what will it take for you to understand this?

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Another "twisted" view. You have a superior attitude that only YOU and the ones that follow your beliefs are correct. I would never say my believes are correct and apply to everyone.

Sick.

Sick? Aren't you saying right now that your beliefs are superior then mine?

And Christianity is a very humbling religion. Any one who says they can earn Heaven has a superior attitude and supreme arrogance.

[kmkkid]

Birth Control is a SIN.


Thank you, have a nice day.





Chris

[Xeo]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
Not being a Christian condemns you to Hell.

I'm really curious about this one. Which version of Christianity gets you to heaven? And I don't understand why a God who loves all his "children" would banish them to Hell for ALL eternity. You'd think he'd show some compassion. What about religions who claim to do what he wants? Just because it's not Christianity, they are just wrong enough to go to Hell? Oops, you grew up not thinking Jesus is the son, here's your one way ticket. See ya.

Really, I don't get this thinking at all. The only conclusion I can draw is that hell was created by man to scare people into believing what they believe. And surprise, that's why many religions use the idea. They all (the ones I'm talking about) say the same thing. Believe what I believe or you're going to hell. It's too convenient.

Sorry for debating religion. This particular concept of Hell is one of the most illogical things I've seen. A god that created logical and rational creatures such as us leaves us with the knowledge of completely illogical and unjust punishments to look forward to.