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Mafia · Dec 8, 2004, 10:13 PM

What are the realities of getting a technology job, particularly a developer position, with a math degree? If I were to come out of college with a degree in general math and can program am I likely to get a position as a developer?

Krusty · Dec 8, 2004, 11:34 PM

Originally posted by Mafia:
What are the realities of getting a technology job, particularly a developer position, with a math degree? If I were to come out of college with a degree in general math and can program am I likely to get a position as a developer?

5 years ago I would have answered with resounding YES. These days ... maybe.

juanvaldes · Dec 9, 2004, 12:32 AM

You should still be in a good strong position. Math is very important in CS, more so in some areas then in others, but if you can take classes that cover other core areas of CS. Operating Systems, Algorithms, Theory, Algorithms and more algorithms you will be fine.

Mafia · Dec 9, 2004, 12:54 AM

thanks for the replies, few more things, when a job posting says bachelor in computer science or equivalent would a math degree be considered an equivalent?

Xeo · Dec 9, 2004, 01:09 AM

I wouldn't think it would be an equivalent but it still might be worth applying. If they reject it it's the same as you not trying at all. If you have programming skills even though you weren't a CS major, you could still stand a good chance. I know people with majors in music, history, philosophy, etc, who are holding decent tech jobs.

juanvaldes · Dec 9, 2004, 02:16 AM

with Xeo, apply for the job you have nothing to lose. As long as you know your stuff (in the end) you should be fine.

hayesk · Dec 9, 2004, 09:57 AM

Originally posted by Mafia:
What are the realities of getting a technology job, particularly a developer position, with a math degree? If I were to come out of college with a degree in general math and can program am I likely to get a position as a developer?

Yes, but it will dishearten you as to how little math most developers are using when writing software - even if they should be.

Ghoser777 · Dec 9, 2004, 10:39 AM

Programming is ALL math. I've been pushing 1's and 0's around for years. A lot of people just don't appreciate all the cool mathematical tricks that higher level programming languages do for you.

jcadam · Dec 9, 2004, 01:47 PM

3D engine development == linear algebra

itai195 · 02:04 PM

It doesn't matter, just have the right keywords on your resume and you have as much a chance as anyone else. It's not particularly easy for CS majors to get development jobs nowadays, so I can't see how it would be any more difficult for a math major as long as you have the appropriate set of skills. The main challenge you will have is that you probably can't claim as much formal training in programming as most CS majors can. There are a lot of people who have been able to overcome that though. Also, I wouldn't really put faith in the notion that math and CS are essentially the same thing. In academia they may be, but they aren't when you're talking about a software development job. I'd highly recommend taking a software engineering course -- that's the kind of practical training that would improve your chances.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 9, 2004, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Programming is ALL math. I've been pushing 1's and 0's around for years. A lot of people just don't appreciate all the cool mathematical tricks that higher level programming languages do for you.

Stop reminding me.

hayesk · Dec 9, 2004, 02:05 PM

Maybe we need a new term.

Programmer = one who understands and utilitizes math to make efficient, well executing programs.

Code Monkey = one who learned how to assemble code and UI snippets with Visual Basic and pad a resume with buzzwords at vocational school.

itai195 · Dec 9, 2004, 02:10 PM

Sure seems like most people prefer to hire code monkeys nowadays if that's the case, hayesk

But anyway, I think there is a little more to be said for the difference. There are also best practices when programming that don't necessarily derive from knowledge of math, but rather engineering principles.

hayesk · Dec 9, 2004, 02:37 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
Sure seems like most people prefer to hire code monkeys nowadays if that's the case, hayesk

Of course. You can pay them less and they don't know enough to question your designs (or lack thereof).

Mafia · Dec 9, 2004, 02:38 PM

thx for all the replies. the main reason i'm wondering is because i've been typing code and writing software since i was 12. mostly in java and c. i'm in no way fluent with either but i basically understand the fundamentals of oop and can pick up new languages rather quickly. i'm about to start college and i'm thinking major in math and minor in cs. ive just been hearing more and more of how a lot of cs graduates are getting jobs typing database software and such which is exactly what i don't want to do. i'd rather be writing interfaces for hardware, or game engines. thx again for all your input.

Ghoser777 · Dec 9, 2004, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
But anyway, I think there is a little more to be said for the difference. There are also best practices when programming that don't necessarily derive from knowledge of math, but rather engineering principles.

Such as?

itai195 · Dec 9, 2004, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Such as?

How about design and testing processes, for a start.

Ghoser777 · Dec 9, 2004, 03:24 PM

Such as?

But be warned, I'm only going to argue that all those processes are results of mathematical research applied to a specific situations.

itai195 · 04:08 PM

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
But be warned, I'm only going to argue that all those processes are results of mathematical research applied to a specific situations.

So what? The point is that these are practices you probably won't learn in a mathematics course.

Ghoser777 · Dec 9, 2004, 04:57 PM

Originally posted by itai195:
So what? The point is that these are practices you probably won't learn in a mathematics course.

Depends. What would be one example?

itai195 · Dec 9, 2004, 05:17 PM

Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Depends. What would be one example?

Not gonna play the game, cause you're trying to outsmart me, shame on you!

Yes I'm sure mathematicians can derive everything from principles of engineering to the reason why I ate a burrito for dinner all in a day's work. You are the salt of the earth, you people.

ringo · Dec 9, 2004, 05:27 PM

From what I've seen, technology employers are more impressed by what you've demonstrated that you're capable of than what your major was. Involve yourself in a few non-commercial programming projects while you're in school and be able to talk intelligently about how you leveraged your math education to write better code. Do this and you'll be miles ahead of the CS graduates who have had lots of classes, but no working experience.

Richard Edgar · Dec 10, 2004, 05:11 AM

It also depends on what field you want to work. For example, I expect that Wolfram would rather employ mathematicians (conditional on a suitable connection to reality).