[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

http://www.goldster-audio.com/concer...roduct.en.html

[Mafia]

i thought it was a concept photo at first
i like the tube based system!

[Kenneth]

tube still carry on in 2005?

[Superchicken]

To bad it's several thousand dollars

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Lots more pics here:

http://www.goldster-audio.com/concertino/press.en.html

[SafariX]

That is ****ing sweet.

[turtle777]

"The Concertino is available in Germany at € 3,200.-, including 16% sales tax."



-t

[Skip Breakfast]

I seriously fail to understand investing in hi-fi sound systems designed to play music in highly-compressed formats. Please educate me.

[badidea]

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
I seriously fail to understand investing in hi-fi sound systems designed to play music in highly-compressed formats. Please educate me.

First, the iPod can also play lossless formats...
Second, even though MP3 or AAC isn't "perfect" anymore, it can still get worse with bad speakers!
Third, you can also connect something else than an iPod!

[drive-thru]

That's Hot!

[Spliffdaddy]

nice.

[G4ME]

Originally posted by badidea:
First, the iPod can also play lossless formats...
Second, even though MP3 or AAC isn't "perfect" anymore, it can still get worse with bad speakers!
Third, you can also connect something else than an iPod!

you are still dealing with a sub par pre amp in the ipod itself.

[Spliffdaddy]

...and the iPod's D/A converter.

the iPod could use a digital output.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by G4ME:
you are still dealing with a sub par pre amp in the ipod itself.

"custom-designed tube amplifier that "compensate[s] for the sound distortions of today's music productions and data reduction."

Oh and this thing is over $4000 US.

[D'Espice]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
...and the iPod's D/A converter.

the iPod could use a digital output.

That'd be sweet!

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Oh and this thing is over $4000 US.

$ 4,265 at today's exchange rate.
You might be able to claim the VAT of 16% if you buy from the US.
Still makes it $ 3,669 !

-t

[hayesk]

Originally posted by Kenneth:
tube still carry on in 2005?

Yes. In the music industry, tubes are quite common. They just stopped putting them in consumer products - transistors and ICs are smaller, use less power, and are much cheaper.

[Skip Breakfast]

Tube amps still offer superior sound, IMO. I just think they would go better with a turntable or DVD-audio than a portable device like an iPod.

[hayesk]

Originally posted by Skip Breakfast:
Tube amps still offer superior sound, IMO. I just think they would go better with a turntable or DVD-audio than a portable device like an iPod.

You are free to plug that into it as well. It doesn't have to be an iPod.

[Eug Wanker]

The sad part is somebody will actually be stupid enough to buy it.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
The sad part is somebody will actually be stupid enough to buy it.

You're just grumpy because you sold your iPod.

At any rate the same could be said about people who buy B&O.

[Daracle]

I would love to hook the iPod up to a tube and hear ow it sounds.

Is there a cheaper alternative that anyone might know about?

[hayesk]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
The sad part is somebody will actually be stupid enough to buy it.

So I take it you have heard this product and are able to judge it accordingly?

Oh wait. No, you think it's not worth spending money for a good sound system so everyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

I can see a definite market for this:
- you want great sound (assuming it provides great sound)
- you don't have a lot of space for a full blown tube-based stereo system
- you have lots of money

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by hayesk:
So I take it you have heard this product

No

and are able to judge it accordingly?

Yes. At €3200, it's a friggin' waste of money.

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
You're just grumpy because you sold your iPod.

Meh. I'm getting a 6 GB mini.

At any rate the same could be said about people who buy B&O.

Even B&0 stuff is a better value.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Even B&0 stuff is a better value.

Considering that B&O is mediocre sound with nice design, I'll hold judgement until I've heard this one.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

B&O does not sound good at all, you just pay for the design.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
B&O does not sound good at all, you just pay for the design.

I said "mediocre" because I didn't want to start a B&O flamewar.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Considering that B&O is mediocre sound with nice design, I'll hold judgement until I've heard this one.

Well, some B&0 stuff sounds pretty good, but I agree. It's overpriced for the sound quality you get. But at €3200, the same definitely could be said for this "sexy iPod system!!", but more so.

[fhoubi]

Hilarious! You can build yourselves for approx. half the money:
2 mono single triodes blocks 300B+310A blocks with genuide RCA/ Western Electric 2nd war tubes
140 W power consumption per channel
max 4 W output (believe me, with high efficiency speakers, more than enough!)

pic1
pic2

I should paint them white... Input sources: Well Tempered Turntable & iBook streaming over Airport Express.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by fhoubi:
Hilarious! You can build yourselves for approx. half the money:
2 mono single triodes blocks 300B+310A blocks with genuide RCA/ Western Electric 2nd war tubes
140 W power consumption per channel
max 4 W output (believe me, with high efficiency speakers, more than enough!)

pic1
pic2

I should paint them white... Input sources: Well Tempered Turntable & iBook streaming over Airport Express.

Hmmm... I'd almost rather pay the €3200.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Well, some B&0 stuff sounds pretty good, but I agree. It's overpriced for the sound quality you get. But at €3200, the same definitely could be said for this "sexy iPod system!!", but more so.

Again, no way to judge until you've heard it.

There sure as hell are systems out there whose sound is worth a lot more than €3200.

Though, of course, none of those will involve a 40¢ D/A converter chip, such as the one used in the iPod, anywhere in the signal path.

And, of course, complete bullsh¡t advertising lines like that it can "compensate for the sound distortions of today's music productions and data reduction" makes the product a little suspect, since there is no way to retroactively "compensate" for anything in audio fidelity without introducing a whole slew of new problems.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
Again, no way to judge until you've heard it.

I thought I already did?

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
No

Yes. At €3200, it's a friggin' waste of money.

Hey some would say the same about a $600 processor upgrade for a G4 Cube used to surf the net. It is all relative.

[Daracle]

I have also heard this "Too much money" argument for my iPod....



You be the judge

[fhoubi]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Hmmm... I'd almost rather pay the €3200.

*LOL* Build to sound, not to look...

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I said "mediocre" because I didn't want to start a B&O flamewar.

Their stuff is junk. Who would pay 8,000 for a so-so tv?

I agreem this is way to overpriced. Don't these things usually sell less than $200? Then why buy one for more than the cost of a G5?

[DeathToWindows]

unholy flaming crap that's pricy

[Zimphire]

Niiiiice... Looks to be preamp and power amp tubes in there.

Tubes do sound better.

I have them in my guitar amp.

They are pricey to replace though.

Their choice of tubes is questionable.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Hey some would say the same about a $600 processor upgrade for a G4 Cube used to surf the net. It is all relative.

Yeah, cuz nobody ever needs more than 450 MHz!

And yeah it's all relative, but having heard tube amps and iPods before, I can guarantee you don't have to spend CAD$5256 on a tube amp for for an iPod.

[ReggieX]

Tubes.

[Zimphire]

Originally posted by ReggieX:
Tubes.

Tubes produce even order harmonics. Transistors usually produce odd order.

Tubes also make a "sterile" sounding CDs warmer.

I made a tube pre-amp that is pretty cool once.

[macaddict0001]

Originally posted by Daracle:
I would love to hook the iPod up to a tube and hear ow it sounds.

Is there a cheaper alternative that anyone might know about?

you might be able to hook it up to a guitar amp, some are tubes some are not.

[badidea]

Originally posted by Spliffdaddy:
the iPod could use a digital output.

Tru dat! The iPod is the only non-digital part in my "home entertainment system"!

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by macaddict0001:
you might be able to hook it up to a guitar amp, some are tubes some are not.

Using tubes to CREATE sound and using tubes to REPRODUCE sound are two entirely contrary philosophies and aims.

Guitar amps have the last bit to do with hi-fidelity - quite the opposite, by design.

[hayesk]

Originally posted by badidea:
Tru dat! The iPod is the only non-digital part in my "home entertainment system"!

Except for your speakers.

[badidea]

Originally posted by hayesk:
Except for your speakers.

Arrrrgghhhhh, I really thought about to mention this exception but then decided that it wouldn't be necessary - I was proven wrong!

by the way, I love my speakers!

[Mastrap]

I run my iPod through an old Braun tube amp all the time. Wonderful, rich sound, given the limitations of the iPod's design.

[dav]

buy what sounds best to your ears. tubes and vinyl have a unique sound, but i wouldn't make the general characterization that they are "better" than solid state/cds.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Tubes produce even order harmonics. Transistors usually produce odd order.

Tubes also make a "sterile" sounding CDs warmer.

I made a tube pre-amp that is pretty cool once.

According to John Dunlavy:

With regard to tube amps versus solid-state amps, as aptly stated by CP Tomes, the differences are audible, measurable and explainable.

First, tube amps in general (even the most expensive) are not as linear as well-designed, solid-state amps, partly because tubes do not possess the very high transconductance required to achieve a low output impedance, requiring a "step-down output transformer" (also a source of distortion) to yield a value as low as 3 to 6 Ohms. This high value of output impedance has two consequences: 1) when feeding a typical loudspeaker with an impedance varying from 3 to 15 Ohms, the frequency response of many tube amps departs from the "flat response measured with a constant 8 Ohm resistive load", varying as much as plus or minus 6 dB, and 2) when a tube amp with a "rated" 4 Ohm output impedance is loaded with a loudspeaker having a 3 Ohm impedance at one or more frequencies, the harmonic distortion typically rises to levels above about 2 percent.

However, the harmonic distortion of most tube amps is comprised mostly of 2nd and 3rd harmonics, which are commonly generated by almost all musical instruments and add a "richness" to their sound. (In "well-balanced" push-pull designs, the 2nd and other even-order harmonics are greatly diminished in amplitude.)

By contrast, most bi-polar type transistors (and their amplifier circuits) tend to emphasize the production of higher-order harmonic distortion (odd-order components above the 5th). Such higher-order distortion generally requires a large amount of inverse-feedback to achieve acceptably low levels of audibility. Indeed,. many, cheaper low-end, non-audiophile versions (with cheap transistors and typically less sophisticated feedback circuitry) tend to have a "grainy" and overly "crisp" quality of reproduction. However, the better-designed, more expensive types of solid-state power-amps (especially those using quality FET's) have very good accuracy of reproduction. Their frequency response is also almost perfectly flat and largely independent of loudspeaker impedance fluctuations.

[hayesk]

Originally posted by dav:
buy what sounds best to your ears. tubes and vinyl have a unique sound, but i wouldn't make the general characterization that they are "better" than solid state/cds.

Agreed.

Just like some people like their graphic equalizer in a "V" configuration and I think it sounds like garbage.