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qnxde · Dec 15, 2004, 12:31 AM

http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnew...6768316400.xml

And people want to talk about hate? The lengths people will go to, to interfere with something that doesn't even affect them is unbelievable.

Un-fricking-believable.

I've totally given up on the US, it's good to see Canada making some progress but honestly, could you be any more backward? If I were to go on a holiday, I would actually think twice about the US with it's current administration. Especially the south.

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 12:33 AM

Couldn't you have just posted this in one of the other many gay threads?

shabbasuraj · Dec 15, 2004, 12:41 AM

'Lets burn books that go against....(you fill in the rest)...'

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 12:42 AM

Yeah.. esp if they mention God. Or aren't politically correct.

It wasn't the right that took To kill a mocking bird out of a lot of schools.

TheBadgerHunter · 12:53 AM

Sounds like this is about children's books. I would have to agree that we shouldn't be shoving agendas or sex down kid's throats. Sexual orientation is unimportant at the best of times and entirely so in children's books.

Edit: Read the rest of it (damn huge ad) and it seems to be some absurd bill and the media is having fun with it.

Xeo · Dec 15, 2004, 12:55 AM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Sounds like this is about children's books. I would have to agree that we shouldn't be shoving agendas or sex down kid's throats. Sexual orientation is unimportant at the best of times and entirely so in children's books.

Edit: Read the rest of it (damn huge ad) and it seems to be some absurd bill and the media is having fun with it.

It sounds like more than just children's books. Sounds like any book with a homosexual main character. How utterly absurd.

mdc · Dec 15, 2004, 01:01 AM

this is so wrong!

what next? something else that offends someone is going to be challenged to be banned?

TubaMuffins · Dec 15, 2004, 01:04 AM

ugh, a-holes like this make me ashamed of living in the US, such horrible misrepresentation. The idea of "Seperation of church and state" has fled the mind of todays politicians, damn shame. I'm gonna go cry.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 15, 2004, 01:24 AM

Originally posted by TubaMuffins:
ugh, a-holes like this make me ashamed of living in the US, such horrible misrepresentation. The idea of "Seperation of church and state" has fled the mind of todays politicians, damn shame. I'm gonna go cry.

I guess we shouldn't tell you about all the other moronic bills that never get passed.

If you don't like american thats cool with me but this is a rather silly reason to do so.

Mafia · Dec 15, 2004, 01:52 AM

there are so many conservative politicians here in alabama. GAYS ARE THE DEVILL!!!!!! ... idiots

MilkmanDan · Dec 15, 2004, 01:56 AM

Thanks Alabama, for continuing your progressive thought.

TubaMuffins · Dec 15, 2004, 03:21 AM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
I guess we shouldn't tell you about all the other moronic bills that never get passed.

If you don't like american thats cool with me but this is a rather silly reason to do so.

oh, its not just this. i think you got me wrong, or i originally said it wrong. i love america, i do, its the politicians i dont like, i dont agree with how they are leading (or misleading) america and mistreating her.

Luca Rescigno · Dec 15, 2004, 04:06 AM

Wow, that's amazing. I was going to say I can't believe anyone would elect such a backwards-thinking bigot to office, but that's not true. I most definitely can believe it.

I don't care if this guy thinks homosexuality is wrong, or a sin, or the tool of the devil. He can go ahead and believe that all gays are sinners going straight to hell. But he's trying to force that on everyone. This is beyond censorship... it's bordering on indoctrination.

It won't pass. At least, it probably won't. But some sh*t's gonna go down in Alabama if it does.

Mastrap · Dec 15, 2004, 06:35 AM

The thing that scares me most is that this bigot got elected. Destroying books. Yes. What a novel idea.

hayesk · Dec 15, 2004, 07:50 AM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Sounds like this is about children's books. I would have to agree that we shouldn't be shoving agendas or sex down kid's throats. Sexual orientation is unimportant at the best of times and entirely so in children's books.

Uhm... I'm not sure any of those books do what you suggest. I think the book "Heather Has Two Mommies" does not shove sex down their throat but attempts to explain a real situation that would have some kids puzzled.

brapper · Dec 15, 2004, 12:20 PM

I wonder what the next target would be?
Maybe an old favourite like racial minorities?

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 12:24 PM

Originally posted by hayesk:
Uhm... I'm not sure any of those books do what you suggest. I think the book "Heather Has Two Mommies" does not shove sex down their throat but attempts to explain a real situation that would have some kids puzzled.

It legitimatizes it.

Some parents don't want their kids being taught such things.

That is their right.

Mithras · Dec 15, 2004, 12:56 PM

Sure Zimph. So they could... not read it! rather than say banning it from all public libraries.

Much less banning not only that book, but also Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, The Picture of Dorian Gray, The Color Purple, etc.

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
Sure Zimph. So they could... not read it! rather than say banning it from all public libraries.

Why didn't I think of that!

Surely kids never read books their parents don't want them to when they aren't around.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 15, 2004, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by hayesk:
Uhm... I'm not sure any of those books do what you suggest. I think the book "Heather Has Two Mommies" does not shove sex down their throat but attempts to explain a real situation that would have some kids puzzled.

Funny, I thought parents were supposed to teach kids that.

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Funny, I thought parents were supposed to teach kids that.

You aren't allowed to teach morality in school. But you are allowed to teach this.

Makes perfect sense.

PacHead · Dec 15, 2004, 01:12 PM

Originally posted by hayesk:
Uhm... I'm not sure any of those books do what you suggest. I think the book "Heather Has Two Mommies" does not shove sex down their throat but attempts to explain a real situation that would have some kids puzzled.

Ah, so it would leave kids puzzled ? I wonder why. I thought gay marriage is as natural and unproblematic as anything else.

Of course kids are going to be puzzled if another kid has two carpetmunchers for parents, duh.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 15, 2004, 01:13 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
Couldn't you have just posted this in one of the other many gay threads?

Why? He got your attention with it in less than 2 minutes.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 15, 2004, 01:14 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Sounds like this is about children's books. I would have to agree that we shouldn't be shoving agendas or sex down kid's throats. Sexual orientation is unimportant at the best of times and entirely so in children's books.

So any book where couples get together should be banned? I hates sleeping beauty as a kid, must have been all that heterosexual content.

PacHead · 09:19 PM

*snip*

That was a kind of asshole post, don't you think?

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Why? He got your attention with it in less than 2 minutes.

Because I happened to be viewing the forums at the time fanboy.

koogz · Dec 15, 2004, 01:31 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
Sure Zimph. So they could... not read it! rather than say banning it from all public libraries.

Much less banning not only that book, but also Cat on a Hot Tin Roof, The Picture of Dorian Gray, The Color Purple, etc.

So, let the kids who want to PRAY in homeroom, PRAY and those that do not want to PRAY sit there quietly.

They ban the pledge of allegance, they ban "under God"... they also have taken the Declaration of Independence and other documents out of the classroom...

They can take the gay books out as well.

They [gays] want the minds and hearts of our children. They CAN'T have'm!

Ban "The Color Purple" Pleeeeeaaaaze.... gag. Oh, mizz Oprah.... anyone hear she is a lesbian and her 'boyfriend' stedman (studman) is gay?
My wife is a big fan of Oprah, and she heard that....

Eug Wanker · Dec 15, 2004, 01:32 PM

Wrong target IMO. Personally, I'm surprised Beauty and the Beast is so popular. Now THAT story is truly disturbing.

The gist of it:

Psychopath imprisons man. Man's daughter offers own body to psychopath to free man. Psychopath accepts and imprisons the woman.

Psychopath and woman fall in love. Psychopath becomes Prince Charming, and the couple live happily ever after.

WTF?

Yeah, I want my kids watching this movie over and over again.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 15, 2004, 01:36 PM

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
Wrong target IMO. Personally, I'm surprised Beauty and the Beast is so popular. Now THAT story is truly disturbing.

The gist of it:

Psychopath imprisons man. Man's daughter offers own body to psychopath to free man. Psychopath accepts and imprisons the woman.

Psychopath and woman fall in love. Psychopath becomes Prince Charming, and the couple live happily ever after.

WTF? Yeah, I want my kids watching this movie over and over again.

Ya you are right about that. I guess it is all ok though as technically they are straight, even though it is bestiality.

Zimphire · Dec 15, 2004, 01:40 PM

I hope that was sarcasm.

Sherwin · Dec 15, 2004, 01:42 PM

Books (of the fiction variety) are useless anyways. Burn them all.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2004, 02:24 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Funny, I thought parents were supposed to teach kids that.

I dunno, but kids' books as well as fairy tales and stuff, have always seemed to me to be mostly about teaching kids about the world around them.

I would certainly *hope* that my kids - should I ever have them - would not cease learning to understand the world around them the second I'm not around to force-feed it to them.

But then, I think I'd trust my kids.

turtle777 · Dec 15, 2004, 02:57 PM

This thread was destined to go south from the very first minute...

-t

Xeo · Dec 15, 2004, 03:04 PM

This subject isn't be any more confusing to kids than:

kid: "daddy's hurting mommy!"
mom: "no sweetie, i'm fine, i'm just..."

Kid's also ask "what is masturbation?" and "why doesn't johnny have a daddy?".

Face it, kids are curious and kids don't understand ANYTHING that is different from their personal situation. So just because kids don't get it right away doesn't mean it's unnatural or wrong. Kids are confused by thousands of things. Duh... they haven't learned about them yet. Children of homosexual parents will ask the same questions about why so and so has a mommy AND a daddy.

The destruction of books in a public library when while freedom of speech is in place is just wrong, no matter what the subject. I can't believe some of you would actually support it. I didn't think any of you were that low.

Disgruntled Head of C-3PO · Dec 15, 2004, 03:06 PM

Kids should ONLY be taught:
HATE
DISCRIMINATION
FEAR

And never:
LOVE

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2004, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Kids should ONLY be taught:
HATE
DISCRIMINATION
FEAR

And never:
LOVE

In the name of Jesus, it has to be the RIGHT KIND of love.

As designated by what is interpreted from scripture.

Mafia · Dec 15, 2004, 03:11 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
The destruction of books in a public library when while freedom of speech is in place is just wrong, no matter what the subject. I can't believe some of you would actually support it. I didn't think any of you were that low.

indeed

d4nth3m4n · Dec 15, 2004, 03:20 PM

Originally posted by Zimphire:
You aren't allowed to teach morality in school. But you are allowed to teach this.

Makes perfect sense.

define "morality".

i don't know about the rest of you, but i certainly learned a lot of values and morality in school. i share, hold hands, hold open doors, say thank you and help old women across the street. i don't steal and i certainly don't hate.

i don't know what some of you (not zim specifically) think the ungodded members of society are up to, but rest assured that it's not as exciting as you think it is.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 15, 2004, 03:30 PM

Originally posted by Spheric Harlot:
I dunno, but kids' books as well as fairy tales and stuff, have always seemed to me to be mostly about teaching kids about the world around them.

I would certainly *hope* that my kids - should I ever have them - would not cease learning to understand the world around them the second I'm not around to force-feed it to them.

But then, I think I'd trust my kids.

Yes, but they need to be learning why Davie has two mommies and home not from fiction.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 15, 2004, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
So any book where couples get together should be banned? I hates sleeping beauty as a kid, must have been all that heterosexual content.

No, but I agree this has no place in the classroom. If a parent does or does not allow their children to read books with gay themes is up to them not the state.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 15, 2004, 03:34 PM

Originally posted by Xeo:
The destruction of books in a public library when while freedom of speech is in place is just wrong, no matter what the subject. I can't believe some of you would actually support it. I didn't think any of you were that low.

I don't see anyone supporting it here.

TheBadgerHunter · Dec 15, 2004, 03:35 PM

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Kids should ONLY be taught:
HATE
DISCRIMINATION
FEAR

And never:
LOVE

You might be forgetting love and sex are two different things.

PacHead · Dec 15, 2004, 03:41 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
No, but I agree this has no place in the classroom. If a parent does or does not allow their children to read books with gay themes is up to them not the state.

Why stop with just explaining to kids what gays are ?

Why not have a whole lesson plan, and explain the whole deal ? This way no kids will be confused about anything.

Lesson plan # 1

(1) MONDAY> Explain to the kiddies what gays and lesbians are

(2) TUESDAY> Explain about Sex change operations, transvestites etc. Kids might be confused when they see some man with facial hair dressed up in womens clothes

(3) WEDNESDAY > Bestiality day, where the kids dress up as various animals and hold a contest where the best costume is awarded.

(4) THURSDAY > Fetish day, and if time permits the topic of orgies will be covered in depth

(5) FRIDAY > Child molestation day

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2004, 03:46 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
Yes, but they need to be learning why Davie has two mommies and home not from fiction.

Wrong.

They need to learn why Davie has two mommies.

Not judge.

Learn.

Two very different things, hard for some to keep apart.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2004, 03:47 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
You might be forgetting love and sex are two different things.

Indeed.

Which is why it's so hard to understand why some people get hung up on others' sexes.

Spheric Harlot · Dec 15, 2004, 03:48 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
I don't see anyone supporting it here.

What exactly are you arguing in this thread, then?

TubaMuffins · Dec 15, 2004, 04:11 PM

I agree that sexuality should not be taught to kids, that is the parents' responsibilty, but banning books from public libraries and universities is borderline nazism. What ever happened to schools teaching Reading, Riting and Rithmatic? The only reason schools have started teaching sexuality is because parents have been ignoring their responsibilty to teach this to their kids.
Also, the phrase "One nation under God" was added to the pledge of allegience was added during McCarthy's witch hunt in a pathetic effort smoke out the communists, pulling this phrase out was the proper thing to do and it should never have been an issue. I know that I would not want my classmates praying in class (in public schools, i dont give a damn about private schools), they can do this on their own time. i find it offensive that the teacher has to take a moment out of my learning time so that other kids can pray to something i dont believe in. there is no place for religion in schools just as their is no place for the teaching of sexuality in schools. Schools are just about the 3 Rs, thats it, no more no less. If you couldnt tell, this issue infuriates me a lot out of current issues.

itistoday · Dec 15, 2004, 04:16 PM

This goes strictly against the first amendment if you ask me.

Xeo · Dec 15, 2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
You might be forgetting love and sex are two different things.

The problem is that many conservatives are forgetting that. The answer to "why does johnny have two daddies?" should be answered by "because sometimes when people love each other enough they want to raise a child together." The answer should not be "because jonny's daddies have sex." Because, johnny's daddies did not have sex to create him. They loved each other enough to go through all the necessary work in adopting a child. I don't think you'll ever find sex-buddies who want to get a kid together.

Honestly, where did the discussion about "teaching sexuality in schools" come from? This is about a guy wanting to have books in public libraries destroyed and that is completely outrageous.

But if it makes you feel better, then I will say yes, I agree that we don't need to be teaching elementary kids about sexuality. As long as there are sex ed classes in junior high, homosexuality can be a topic (I'm sure it is, it was at least brought up in my 7th grade rural MN classroom). I'm just having a hard time seeing the connection between books on shelves and teaching kids in the classroom. Children going to the library to learn on there own is not "the classroom" and, hell, I think we would be lucky if children actually did that!

"What's that son?" "I decided to read up on the civil war from this auto-biography."

Yeah right...

macaddict0001 · Dec 15, 2004, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by TheBadgerHunter:
You might be forgetting love and sex are two different things.

not entirely, because in the english language the word "love" is very vague. It can mean love of material posessions, love of a woman for a man(and vice versa) or brotherly love. Love definition two can often mean sex. Although sometimes two people having sex, can just be for pleasure not any relationship. The greeks have three words for love, each meaning a different type of love, in many ways that works better.