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Man "forced" to buy iPod. Sues Apple.
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SAN FRANCISCO (Reuters) - An unhappy iTunes online music store customer is suing Apple Computer Inc. (AAPL.O: Quote, Profile, Research) , alleging the company broke antitrust laws by only allowing iTunes to work with its own music player, the iPod, freezing out competitors, court filings showed.
Apple, which opened its online music store in April 2003 after introducing the iPod in October 2001, uses technology to ensure each digital song bought from its store only plays on the iPod.
The suit was filed on Monday in the U.S. District Court in San Jose. One antitrust expert called it a long shot, but Californian Thomas Slattery is hoping for unspecified damages for being "forced" to buy an iPod, one of the most successful electronics products in years.
The key to such a lawsuit would be convincing a court that a single product brand like iTunes is a market in itself separate from the rest of the online music market, according to Ernest Gellhorn, an antitrust law professor at George Mason University.
http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml...toryID=7249174
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Awesome...Apple is "officially" a monopoly now.
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I doubt that he will win. If he does, lawsuits will pop up everywhere. Thats like saying: I have a pc. I bought OS X. It didnt work, so I am suing apple for forcing me to buy a mac.
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
One antitrust expert called it a long shot, but Californian Thomas Slattery is hoping for unspecified damages....
He's actually hoping for a lottery payout.
Dick.
Only one antitrust expert called it a long shot?? 
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Caffeinated Theme Master  Join Date: Nov 1999
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
... Apple, ... , uses technology to ensure each digital song bought from its store only plays on the iPod. ...
What was that iTunes thing? What the hell is that stuff I recently burned onto a CD for car use? And why is it again that I couldn't transfer those tunes from the CD to (pretty much) any other (be it portable or not) player out there?
Moron(s).
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Waaaaaaaaa Apple is "forcing" me to buy an iPod. It is able to use MP3's But I was still forced to buy one. Waaaaaaaaa I'm being forced to buy THE most popular electronic device in years.
This guy needs to get a life. Sounds like one of those writers who bashes Apple and iTMS. SSDD as they say. I hope gets CREAMED in court. Too bad he won't be forced to pay Apple's legal fees when he loses.
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"Evil is Powerless If the Good are Unafraid." -Ronald Reagan
Apple and Intel, the dawning of a NEW era.
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The guy probably bought 3 songs. OMFG THE THR33 SONGS I BOUGHT DONT PLAY ON MY RIO AND NOW I HAVE TO BUY AN IPOD THOSE FUXXORS I AM SO GONNA SUE!
Lame. Storer hit it dead on. It's exactly like buying OS X and then suing cause you have to buy a Mac to use it. He knew the system requirements before he bought it.
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well they forced me to buy a new photoPod yesterday, darn them! 
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What people will do for some money.
Reminds me of the person suing McDonald's because it made them fat.
Dumbasses.
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Apple sues Think secret, Thomas Slattery sues Apple. What goes around comes around!
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a million flashes of delight.
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Originally posted by brandon420506:
What people will do for some money.
Reminds me of the person suing McDonald's because it made them fat.
Dumbasses.
Actually I think this lawsuit is even more stupid.
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Can we sue Microsoft for making its ActiveSync only work with Pocket PCs?
Can we sue Microsoft for making Windows only work on PCs?
Can we sue Microsoft for making Halo only work with xBox?
Can we sue Nintendo for making Metroid only work with GameCube?
Stupidest lawsuit of the year! 
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Originally posted by JHromadka:
Can we sue Microsoft for making its ActiveSync only work with Pocket PCs?
Can we sue Microsoft for making Windows only work on PCs?
Can we sue Microsoft for making Halo only work with xBox?
Can we sue Nintendo for making Metroid only work with GameCube?
Stupidest lawsuit of the year!
exactly.
while we are at it, why not all the software developers that don't make mac or windows versions of their software.
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correct me if I am wrong but doesn't itunes work with the Rio Cali, and/or other Rio Flash driven MP3 players? According to reviews they are supposed to work with Mac OS X.
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At least at the Asylum, they treat me with respect.
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i have never tried a player other than an ipod with itunes. but i read somewhere that you can drag your music from your itunes folder onto your [insert player here] mp3 player. just because you can't use itunes to sync it does not mean it does not work in mac os X.
i think this case is about how the music he bought from the itunes music store being a protected .aac file won't play on any player other than a ipod.
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Dang, Apple forced me to buy an iPod mini by making it sleek, sexy, and down right awesome... bastards!
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Originally posted by mikithecrackhead:
correct me if I am wrong but doesn't itunes work with the Rio Cali, and/or other Rio Flash driven MP3 players? According to reviews they are supposed to work with Mac OS X.
it did in version 1 and 2 but when the iPod came out they didn't push that fact anymore. don't know if it still does.
At any rate, I think he is bitching about songs he bought through iTms.
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As somebody pointed out, don't forget that you can burn these songs to CDs. While Apple is not going to come out and say rip that burnt CD, a portable CD player definately counts as a portable device. And if you wan't more portability, burn your songs to one of those mini-CDs for use in a mini-CD player (if such a beast exists).
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Originally posted by mdc:
i think this case is about how the music he bought from the itunes music store being a protected .aac file won't play on any player other than a ipod.
That's exactly what this case is about. He's complaining that he couldn't take any songs he bought from iTMS with him without being "forced" to buy an iPod to do so. He's not complaining about the software iTunes not syncing with other players, but about the fairplay DRM from purchased music.
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If thhe legal system in the US were a "loser pays" system (where the loser of the suit has to pay for winners court costs), do you think this idiot would be trying this stunt?
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Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
it did in version 1 and 2 but when the iPod came out they didn't push that fact anymore. don't know if it still does.
At any rate, I think he is bitching about songs he bought through iTms.
Still works fine w/ teh Rio 500 i use
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Originally posted by cheerios:
Still works fine w/ teh Rio 500 i use
Out of curiousity, why do you use the Rio instead of an iPod?
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Isn't the reason he can't play the DRM'd music on his Rio is because Rio hasn't licensed fairplay (which they could do)? Please correct me if I'm wrong, this whole licensing situation always confused me.
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Originally posted by cjrivera:
If thhe legal system in the US were a "loser pays" system (where the loser of the suit has to pay for winners court costs), do you think this idiot would be trying this stunt?
doubt it!
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Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Isn't the reason he can't play the DRM'd music on his Rio is because Rio hasn't licensed fairplay (which they could do)? Please correct me if I'm wrong, this whole licensing situation always confused me.
Apple won't let any other company license fairplay. That was the whole issue with Real when they were begging Apple to do it, then they realeased harmony (which Apple closed down.) Plenty of companies would love to license fairplay and share iPod/iTunes success, but there is no need for Apple to do this (as of yet) because they pretty much could not be more successful then they are as of now.
If the iPod rage eventually dies down and other companies threaten Apple's marketshare (unlikely) then Apple will probably license fairplay.
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Originally posted by Ghoser777:
Isn't the reason he can't play the DRM'd music on his Rio is because Rio hasn't licensed fairplay (which they could do)? Please correct me if I'm wrong, this whole licensing situation always confused me.
Apple won't licensee fair play because this way they make more cash.
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Honestly, I think the guy has a legit argument. I often wondered this myself.
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Originally posted by Webscreamer:
Honestly, I think the guy has a legit argument. I often wondered this myself.
This is not acceptable. Be prepared to be cast out.
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Originally posted by brandon420506:
Out of curiousity, why do you use the Rio instead of an iPod?
Because she stole it out of my desk.
Six years and still going strong. And no, Apple has not broken iTunes support.
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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson, 1787
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Originally posted by brandon420506:
Out of curiousity, why do you use the Rio instead of an iPod?
that, and I don't exactly have 300 bucks sitting around to buy an iPod
edit: was off on the price a bit there
(Last edited by cheerios; Jan 6, 2005 at 12:50 AM.
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The short shall inherit the earth. Just you wait. You won't see us coming. We'll pop out from under tables, beds, and closets in hordes. So you're tall, huh? You won't be so tall when I chew off your ankles. Mofo
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This thread has to be remembered when one of you guys bitches about Microsoft or Real again!
This guy is defenitely correct!
If you buy music in an online store (whichever you like), it should be playable on any music player that can handle AAC or MP3 (or whatever format you bought)!
What would you guys say, if the iPod could only play music bought at the iTunes music store?
Apple maniacs...
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if you bought mp3's you might be onto something. Even more so if iTunes could not play the files. But as is, no this guy is looking for a cash prize.
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The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it always to be kept alive.
- Thomas Jefferson, 1787
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Originally posted by juanvaldes:
if you bought mp3's you might be onto something. Even more so if iTunes could not play the files. But as is, no this guy is looking for a cash prize.
Well, I didn't make myself clear enough! This guy shouldn't recieve a cash prize - at least not more than an iPod costs!
But Apple is wrong on their side in my opinion! Sure you could buy your music somewhere else if you don't want protected AAC files but I think everyone here agrees that copy protected CDs that don't play in your Mac (or even almost destroy your iMac) are not ok either! Right?Right!!!
That's the same thing - not those other comparisons made here!
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I think I missed the sarcasm tag in your post. . . Your post is seemingly serious, so I'll treat it as such. Fact: No other music store is even compatible with the Mac, let alone the iPod. So you want Apple to be the good guy and let its format and market leading player and store get raped by inferior, compatible competitors? If every corporation on the scene cared about consumer choice, you would have a stronger point. They obviously do not. You can't behave like a sheep amongst a pack of wolves.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally posted by Big Mac:
I think I missed the sarcasm tag in your post. . . Your post is seemingly serious, so I'll treat it as such. Fact: No other music store is even compatible with the Mac, let alone the iPod. So you want Apple to be the good guy and let its format and market leading player and store get raped by inferior, compatible competitors? If every corporation on the scene cared about consumer choice, you would have a stronger point. They obviously do not. You can't behave like a sheep amongst a pack of wolves.
Oh yes, I was serious!
Just because the others are evil doesn't mean you should be, too! Not only Apple is wrong here - that's not what I said - they all are!
Do you think it is ok that some CDs don't play in your computer?
(Last edited by badidea; Jan 6, 2005 at 04:46 AM.
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I would have a lot more appreciation for your moral clarity if we were debating a moral issue. Apple has been much more generous to consumers than its competitors have been, by providing cross platform support and not crippling its software with unfairly restrictive DRM. Besides, the fact that the iTMS doesn't support competitors is at most an inconvenience to those who don't own iPods. It means they're forced to burn CDs of their iTMS tracks and then rip them back to MP3.
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"The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground." TJ
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Originally posted by badidea:
Do you think it is ok that some CDs don't play in your computer?
It's precisely why people boycott those CDs. That guy could do the same thing, if he wanted. Simply not buy the product. You can bitch and not like it, but that doesn't mean it's becomes a valid lawsuit.
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Originally posted by Webscreamer:
Honestly, I think the guy has a legit argument. I often wondered this myself.
NO He does NOT. If the iTunes Music store was the ONLY music store to download music he would have a legit argument. But its not. He had a choice to buy music from ITM, he also had a choice to buy music from Real music store, or Microsofts, or sony. Its like owning a Mac, deciding to buy a PC and sueing Apple for not being able to use his Mac Software on the PC. The guy had a choice to buy other music players and to use other music download services its that simple.
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Brian says (9:16 AM): I was looking at houses in Ottawa... I actually have a temptation in me to move
Jeff ******* says (9:19 AM): Eww, Ottawa is gross. It's infested with politicians, and presently, 1 Harper as well.
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Originally posted by badidea:
This thread has to be remembered when one of you guys bitches about Microsoft or Real again!
This guy is defenitely correct!
If you buy music in an online store (whichever you like), it should be playable on any music player that can handle AAC or MP3 (or whatever format you bought)!
What would you guys say, if the iPod could only play music bought at the iTunes music store?
Apple maniacs...
Question does the tires on your car fit on every car out there? Would you sue your tire maker because the tires on your BMW wont fit on your wifes Nissan Truck?
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Brian says (9:16 AM): I was looking at houses in Ottawa... I actually have a temptation in me to move
Jeff ******* says (9:19 AM): Eww, Ottawa is gross. It's infested with politicians, and presently, 1 Harper as well.
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Originally posted by Athens:
Question does the tires on your car fit on every car out there? Would you sue your tire maker because the tires on your BMW wont fit on your wifes Nissan Truck?
Apples and oranges - oh yeah, Apples! Sorry Apple!
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Originally posted by badidea:
Well, I didn't make myself clear enough! This guy shouldn't recieve a cash prize - at least not more than an iPod costs!
But Apple is wrong on their side in my opinion! Sure you could buy your music somewhere else if you don't want protected AAC files but I think everyone here agrees that copy protected CDs that don't play in your Mac (or even almost destroy your iMac) are not ok either! Right?Right!!!
That's the same thing - not those other comparisons made here!
Yes, I agree that it isn't right copy protected cd's don't work on the Mac, so for that reason I DON'T buy them. Likewise, I don't like Apple's DRM on music, so I DON'T buy from the iTunes music store either. Its really simple, if you don't like it don't buy it.
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Originally posted by PowerTower Fan:
Likewise, I don't like Apple's DRM on music, so I DON'T buy from the iTunes music store either.
Pfft, Apple's DRM is lienient! Well, compared to WMA stores.
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Originally posted by badidea:
Apples and oranges - oh yeah, Apples! Sorry Apple!
So I take that as a yes you would sue
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Brian says (9:16 AM): I was looking at houses in Ottawa... I actually have a temptation in me to move
Jeff ******* says (9:19 AM): Eww, Ottawa is gross. It's infested with politicians, and presently, 1 Harper as well.
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Originally posted by storer:
Pfft, Apple's DRM is lienient! Well, compared to WMA stores.
Oh I agree, Apple's is better than other's out there. I personally still have issues with it though and don't want to buy anything from there. All this does is strengthen the point though, since I don't agree with it I don't buy from there. I don't go suing Apple because I can't use their files on a Creative mp3 player. They lose out on my money from me purchasing music.
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Originally posted by PowerTower Fan:
Yes, I agree that it isn't right copy protected cd's don't work on the Mac, so for that reason I DON'T buy them. Likewise, I don't like Apple's DRM on music, so I DON'T buy from the iTunes music store either. Its really simple, if you don't like it don't buy it.
To make it clear again: Sueing Apple for "forcing to buy the iPod" is stupid but it is still wrong that those files don't play on other players than the iPod!
(but what do I care? I have an iPod and I don't buy anything from the iTunes music store)
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Originally posted by badidea:
To make it clear again: Sueing Apple for "forcing to buy the iPod" is stupid but it is still wrong that those files don't play on other players than the iPod!
(but what do I care? I have an iPod and I don't buy anything from the iTunes music store)
Wait, so you are calling us Apple maniacs... but then saying the same thing yourself? That's the whole discussion here--that the lawsuit is stupid. Whether or not we agree with Apple not licensing fairplay to others doesn't change the frivolousness of this lawsuit.
I think you need to decide exactly what you are calling people names for.
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Originally posted by Xeo:
I think you need to decide exactly what you are calling people names for.
I am calling people names for being a crying crowd just because someone sues Apple! If someone would sue Sony or Virgin for producing copy protected CDs, everybody would agree! If someone would sue Microsoft for forcing you to use their MediaPlayer, the crowd would be celebrating (wait, that already happened)!
Originally posted by Athens:
So I take that as a yes you would sue
Yes, I would do s(h)ue 
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the mrket included a few competitors at the time:
emusic and rhopsody
and cds are still a part of that market because they can be digitized.
so he has no case, i hope his lawyer is bungholing him.
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Originally posted by badidea:
I am calling people names for being a crying crowd just because someone sues Apple! If someone would sue Sony or Virgin for producing copy protected CDs, everybody would agree! If someone would sue Microsoft for forcing you to use their MediaPlayer, the crowd would be celebrating (wait, that already happened)!
For the love of god even you agree this lawsuit has no merit! You are calling us hypocrites while agreeing with us. That makes no sense.
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