[Stradlater]

http://www.billpalmer.net/2005/01/ap...and-stick.html

Personally, I think he's missing the point.

I do, however, agree that Apple should make a budget monitor available (15 or 17" LCD, or any CRT -- although I realize that Apple wants to move away from CRT).

[Goldfinger]

Who the **** is Bill Palmer ? Dvorak 2.0 Media Center Edition ?

[kcmac]

Palmer's being a tot a$$ cheek. Going crazy to drum up business on his site(s). Must be a lot of pressure on him to pay for the bandwidth or something.

I used to enjoy his stuff. Now he just sounds like an idiot.

[effgee]

Why should anyone care what Bill Palmer has to say on the subject?

[xi_hyperon]

Aside from being a blogger, who is he? Never heard of him.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
Personally, I think he's missing the point.

Personally, I think he's missing a brain

-t.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by effgee:
Why should anyone care what Bill Palmer has to say on the subject?

They shouldn't; it's just amusing to read moronic rants.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by turtle777:
Personally, I think he's missing a brain

-t.

[waxcrash]

Yeah, who is Bill Palmer and why should we care?

After reading the article, this guy is just a blogger and wanna-be journalist.

[Stradlater]

Originally posted by xi_hyperon:
Aside from being a blogger, who is he? Never heard of him.

He's a self-proclaimed Mac-zealot, I believe. I've seen his name in blog circles in the past but never really followed him; recently saw a few links to this post.

[effgee]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
They shouldn't; it's just amusing to read moronic rants.

Oh - so the condition he's suffering from is chronic, then? In that case I gotta go back and check out his site after all - sounds like fun (as long as he's not as much of a self-righteous bore as Gruber, that is.)

[SimeyTheLimey]

I think he makes a couple of very good points. There is a huge disparity between a $499 cpu and a $999 monitor for it if that is the cheapest monitor in the store. That probably won't matter if people buy the computer at a CompUSA where they can get a cheap monitor as well, but it is going to be pretty embarrassing in an Apple Store.

I agree with him also that the mini calls out for a smaller and cheaper monitor. Quite likely a CRT. If Apple can't stand to sell lower-level goods in its snazzy Apple stores, I would recommend they quickly start stocking the 19 inch Lacie Electron Blue IV CRT monitor. They already sell other LaCie products, and that looks to me to be a very nice partner to the mini.

Second, Apple could include a PS2 to USB adaptor with the mini. It wouldn't cost that much to toss one in the box. That way people wouldn't run into the got-it-home-and-found-I-couldn't-use-my-PC-keyboard problem that this author (correctly, imho) anticipates.

[ort888]

I think he's got a somewhat valid point (even though he's presenting it in a terrible fashion). I can see some people being put off by what the Mini lacks. I myself was thinking about getting one for a minute until I went to the Applestore and realized that if I got everything I wanted for it, it was going to end up running me closer to $800 bucks without a screen. That includes me having to buy my RAM elsewhere and void my warranty by opening it up. It's just too bare bones.

I also think Apple would be very wise to release a budget-friendly 15 inch LCD screen for $299.

Here's what I realized when I speced out the Mini I would want.

Mac Mini $499
Hard drive upgrade $50
Keyboard $30
3rd Party Mouse $30 (for a good one)
Super Drive $100
Airport Card $80
3rd Party LCD screen $250
1 Gig stick of RAM = $150

That's $1,200 bucks. I would much rather pony up the additional doagh and get a more expandable machine. I'm not saying that the Mini sucks or anything, but it has a target audience and that audience ain't me. The price is deceptive.

[billybob128]

he is totally missing the point. the idea of NO peripherals at all is that the user has the choice to get say a cheaper two button mouse. cheaper possibally more ergonomic keyboard that apples.

and the screen choice is that apple really doesnt have a normal screen line up what they offer is more classed as pro. so it just give so many more options at a very good price.

another vote for him been a total a$$

[Oneota]

The guy has a definite attitude problem, but he's not 100% wrong. I could see his scenario happening.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by billybob128:
and the screen choice is that apple really doesnt have a normal screen line up what they offer is more classed as pro.

That's precisely the criticism. If you are going to sell a low end relatively inexpensive computer, you need to offer some kind of comparably-priced monitor in the same store. If you send them down the road to buy a Dell monitor, they are pretty likely to walk out of that other store with a Dell computer to go with it.

Just stock something like the LaCie. They are pretty.

[thunderous_funker]

Originally posted by ort888:
Here's what I realized when I speced out the Mini I would want.

Mac Mini $499
Hard drive upgrade $50
Keyboard $30
3rd Party Mouse $30 (for a good one)
Super Drive $100
Airport Card $80
3rd Party LCD screen $250
1 Gig stick of RAM = $150

That's $1,200 bucks. I would much rather pony up the additional doagh and get a more expandable machine. I'm not saying that the Mini sucks or anything, but it has a target audience and that audience ain't me. The price is deceptive.

You're right. I think Apple doesn't expect to sell many Minis to first time computer buyers. I suspect they want Switchers.

By definition that would imply that 90% of those Switchers already have a display, keyboard and mouse.

The secondary market is for people who want a cheap 2nd Mac. Again, by definition they would already have DKM (although if they have an AIO they might need a diplay--another reason I dislike AIO designs).

Of course I'd like to see a 17" Apple display (not CRT, no reason at all for Apple to compete in that space), but again I think they primarily think Mini buyers are going to be people who already have one.

If I was working in Apple's marketing dept, I be throwing in a stylish KVM switch with the Mini or at least having a KVM bundle prominantly displayed/marketed with the Mini. It wouldn't surprise me at all if a huge percentage of Mini buyers will be using one.

How long before Belkin or someone has a Mini styled KVM switch? I'm guessing we'll see them almost immediately.

[hagheid]

Originally posted by thunderous_funker:
You're right. I think Apple doesn't expect to sell many Minis to first time computer buyers. I suspect they want Switchers.

Agreed! e.g. most folk on these forums would be experiencing a downgrade if they bought a mini......

[spectre]

Well, Apple does actually sell at least one relatively cheap CRT monitor, albeit it is kinda difficult to find: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....3.1.1.0?55,52

[BasketofPuppies]

La Cie makes some of the best CRT displays this side of Barco, but for someone buying a $500 to $600 computer, they're too expensive.

NEC-Mitsubishi would make more sense. It makes a wide variety of CRT monitors in many different sizes to fit anyone's price range and even the cheapest displays are of reasonable quality.

Not to mention many, such as gamers and professional graphic designers, often prefer the faster refresh rates and truer colors only CRTs can offer. (Read: Power Mac owners user CRTs too.)

Not that I'm suggesting Apple retail stores pick up the entire line of NEC-Mitsubishi displays, but if sells CRT monitors - which I agree it needs to - it needs more than two to choose from and starting at 17", not 19.

[Big Mac]

Apple does make it clear that they don't expect mini customers to buy cinema displays - BYODKM. Apple should have an inexpensive monitor to offer customers when they select the mini online or in the retail stores. Some probably don't realize that Macs are compatible with other vendor's monitors.

[kcmac]

Some are so fast to always jump on Apple and act like they have no clue about business.

Wouldn't you think they have had these same discussions about selling a monitor and the other parts? Don't ya think they have probably done quite a bit of market research to understand who this machine will appeal to?

They had a problem with the Cube. Today however, Apple has a big advantage of their retail stores and having easy access to first hand information from their customers and the people that stop by to look.

This machine will fly off of the shelves. Whether or not it is geared for anyone on these forums does not matter. Most of us want more than it has to give. But I have family members who will go for this in a heart beat...

And I am betting Apple will have a monitor solution available. If not immediately, very soon. Even If it is 3rd party.

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:
La Cie makes some of the best CRT displays this side of Barco, but for someone buying a $500 to $600 computer, they're too expensive.

NEC-Mitsubishi would make more sense. It makes a wide variety of CRT monitors in many different sizes to fit anyone's price range and even the cheapest displays are of reasonable quality.

Not to mention many, such as gamers and professional graphic designers, often prefer the faster refresh rates and truer colors only CRTs can offer. (Read: Power Mac owners user CRTs too.)

Not that I'm suggesting Apple retail stores pick up the entire line of NEC-Mitsubishi displays, but if sells CRT monitors - which I agree it needs to - it needs more than two to choose from and starting at 17", not 19.

I don't disagree with that. I mentioned LaCie in a specific context:

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
If Apple can't stand to sell lower-level goods in its snazzy Apple stores, I would recommend they quickly start stocking the 19 inch Lacie Electron Blue IV CRT monitor.

Apple sometimes has a stubbornness problem and they seem to regard it's Apple Stores as boutiques. I mentioned the LaCies to counter what I could imagine might be the "eww, tacky!" reaction to the idea of selling anything as trailer-trash as a mere CRT monitor in their shiny Apple stores.

At least at $370 or so, the LaCie is in shouting range of the $499 computer, while it is also hip enough to not look out of place in a boutique. It's a great monitor, worth the money, but it isn't $1000 like the cheapest Apple display sold in an Apple Store. But I agree, a $200 monitor would be even smarter if your selling point is a low entry point. And that is the point of the mini.

Anyone who has ever worked in retail knows it is always a bad idea to tell a customer to go talk to another store to buy something necessary for your sale. That is why you don't tell them to go buy their monitor from Dell. They will go over the road to Dell, but they will likely not come back for the CPU from Apple. You basically just told them not to buy your product. Stupid!

This isn't a criticism of the mini. It's simply a suggestion to sell more appropriately priced third-party monitors in their retail Apple stores in order to sell minis.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
That is why you don't tell them to go buy their monitor from Dell. They will go over the road to Dell, but they will likely not come back for the CPU from Apple. You basically just told them not to buy your product. Stupid! .

That's a stupid argument.

Someone who doesn't care for the CPU doesn't go to Apple in the first place. People (SWITCHERS !!!) who come in specifically for the Mac mini will also buy it, and not settle for something else just because they can't get a monitor right away.

-t

[exca1ibur]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I don't disagree with that. I mentioned LaCie in a specific context:



Apple sometimes has a stubbornness problem and they seem to regard it's Apple Stores as boutiques. I mentioned the LaCies to counter what I could imagine might be the "eww, tacky!" reaction to the idea of selling anything as trailer-trash as a mere CRT monitor in their shiny Apple stores.

At least at $370 or so, the LaCie is in shouting range of the $499 computer, while it is also hip enough to not look out of place in a boutique. It's a great monitor, worth the money, but it isn't $1000 like the cheapest Apple display sold in an Apple Store. But I agree, a $200 monitor would be even smarter if your selling point is a low entry point. And that is the point of the mini.

Anyone who has ever worked in retail knows it is always a bad idea to tell a customer to go talk to another store to buy something necessary for your sale. That is why you don't tell them to go buy their monitor from Dell. They will go over the road to Dell, but they will likely not come back for the CPU from Apple. You basically just told them not to buy your product. Stupid!

This isn't a criticism of the mini. It's simply a suggestion to sell more appropriately priced third-party monitors in their retail Apple stores in order to sell minis.

According to the Apple rep I talked with at Macworld, the target market is mainly PC switchers who HAVE a monitor, keyboard and mouse and this is more a second computer. The system is targeted for people to mainly get a feel for MacOSX and would look to upgrade in the future to a higher end system over time. Not pretty much a first buyer computer trying to piece together an entire computer setup. So really it isn't a direct target market for a new user, I do see and a agree with a few of your point though.

However, also at the same time, people complained about choice and paying for options they didn't want. Now they have the choice of ANY DVDI/VGA monitor, not an ADC Apple only monitor. They have a choice of a two, seven, or ten button mice, not a single button mouse. Same for keyboards, They seem to be fighting a never winning battle here in my opinion, but for the market they are targeting I think they did a reasonable job with the Mini. I totally agree, now with this product, they should have more third party options at their store, this would solve a lot of those issues you bring. A big selection of other displays (CRT and LCD), mice and keyboards.

[Millennium]

Who is this "Bill Palmer"? I've never heard of this guy before.

A lack of monitor is basically irrelevant, given that this works with basically everything. Also, unlike what this poor sap says, the fact is that monitors normally last much longer than CPUs do. The lack of keyboard and mouse is almost as irrelevant. The big question is whether Apple Stores will start carrying PS2/USB adaptors. Seven bucks for an adaptor (Apple can even charge a hefty premium if they mark up the price to $10) us quite reasonable.

This said, I'd like to see a nice cheap keyboard/mouse bundle. Hell, the ultimate for this would be a wireless keyboard with integrated trackpad, but the price on such a thing would probably be prohibitive.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

I have to say for the most part he is right.

Unless you have a PC with a reasonable monitor and USB KB/mouse than the mini doesn't do much for people.

Doesn't it also just have TWO usb ports, so you plug in your PC KB/mouse and you are out of ports unless you get a hub. The costs keep adding up where is just makes more sense to get an iMac or eMac.

[exca1ibur]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Who is this "Bill Palmer"? I've never heard of this guy before.

Good question I have ask the same. LOL

This said, I'd like to see a nice cheap keyboard/mouse bundle. Hell, the ultimate for this would be a wireless keyboard with integrated trackpad, but the price on such a thing would probably be prohibitive.

Remember Apple doesn't have to be the only one doing this now. This is a big market for third parties. Think iPod now. Accessories galore await this thing I'm sure. So far Apple has the 2 bundles on BTO with wireless KB/Mouse and wired.

I personally am wondering if someone is gonna make an acrylic cube container to try to give it the look of the cube in time. I see that coming with its size and dimensions.

[Thilo Ettelt]

Originally posted by Stradlater:
http://www.billpalmer.net/2005/01/ap...and-stick.html

"And yeah, I'm as aware as anyone just what a bloody history it's been"


This must be a joke. Macintosh history, a bloody history? Go outside! Or have a look out of the window. Or just read the news. This is ridiculous, bloody history is certainly something completely different.


- Thilo

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by turtle777:
That's a stupid argument.

Someone who doesn't care for the CPU doesn't go to Apple in the first place. People (SWITCHERS !!!) who come in specifically for the Mac mini will also buy it, and not settle for something else just because they can't get a monitor right away.

-t

I don't think you understand average consumers. Consumer goods are bought as much (or more) on the basis of impulse and convenience as research. An average consumer isn't going to chase all over town. He will want to buy both CPU and monitor in one store. If Apple makes that hard, they will buy another brand that doesn't. Especially when the salesperson in that other store is bound to tell the consumer what a bad deal Apple is, and what a much better deal their computer is.

What is extraordinary, and almost unique to Apple, is the insistance that the customer do what the retailer wants, not the other way around. What is the harm in simply offering a third party manufacturer CRT monitor for sale in the Apple stores? They offer them in their online stores. Is this a pride thing? If so, it is dumb.

Originally posted by exca1ibur:
According to the Apple rep I talked with at Macworld, the target market is mainly PC switchers who HAVE a monitor, keyboard and mouse

Target markets are good - unless you are so set on that market you put everyone else off. The fact is a percentage of people who will look at this computer will want a new monitor -- ether because their old one is clapped out, too small (lots of 15" montors get replaced with 17 or 19" ones), they don't have a spare one, or whatever. But someone in the market for a $499 computer will have sticker shock at a $1000 monitor. So sell them a cheaper one. It doesn't have to have Apple on it.

[CreepingDeth]

He brings up a decent point. Apple should make a smaller, low cost monitor. I don't mean $200, but something in the neighborhood of $500-$800, depending on the size/quality. A 17" widescreen would be a nice addition to the line.

But then again, the guy is acting like a four year old and misses the mark by 50 feet. He misses the point of having a cheap, accessory-less computer. It's for the people who have a USB keyboard and mouse and a monitor. And no, a PS2 adapter is liking adding an adapter for a six year old printer. Why dredge up that defunct technology now when the same standard is not applied to anything else? I say good riddance to that junk.

I vote for "He's an ass".
I also vote for "Make a two buttoned mouse".

That'll never happen.

[exca1ibur]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Target markets are good - unless you are so set on that market you put everyone else off. The fact is a percentage of people who will look at this computer will want a new monitor -- ether because their old one is clapped out, too small (lots of 15" montors get replaced with 17 or 19" ones), they don't have a spare one, or whatever. But someone in the market for a $499 computer will have sticker shock at a $1000 monitor. So sell them a cheaper one. It doesn't have to have Apple on it.

I agreed with that, just letting you know their response on that same question. I think it makes a great starter computer more-so than a switcher computer. The monitor prices I agree totally and that is why my next upgraded monitor will not have an Apple on it as well. LOL

[Millennium]

Originally posted by exca1ibur:
Remember Apple doesn't have to be the only one doing this [selling a keyboard/mouse bundle] now. This is a big market for third parties.

Oh, I agree. I don't think Apple needs to be the one to make this. However, they should sell it in their stores -online and physical- as an accessory.

[exca1ibur]

Originally posted by Millennium:
Oh, I agree. I don't think Apple needs to be the one to make this. However, they should sell it in their stores -online and physical- as an accessory.

Definately!

[CreepingDeth]

Originally posted by exca1ibur:
Definately!

I agree.

BTW, if it's Excalibur design, then why do you have the hilt of Narsil on there?

[exca1ibur]

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
I agree.

BTW, if it's Excalibur design, then why do you have the hilt of Narsil on there?

Because I was too lazy to go back and change it when I redid the graphic. LOL I guess I'll add that to the New Year's res.

[Disgruntled Head of C-3PO]

Originally posted by CreepingDeth:
He brings up a decent point. Apple should make a smaller, low cost monitor. I don't mean $200, but something in the neighborhood of $500-$800, depending on the size/quality. A 17" widescreen would be a nice addition to the line.

$800? Are you nuts? The cost of a Mac Mini and $800 17" monitor is the cost of a 17" iMac and that doesn't include a keyboard/mouse and is hugely underpowered.

Apple should make a $300 LCD tops.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
$800? Are you nuts? The cost of a Mac Mini and $800 17" monitor is the cost of a 17" iMac and that doesn't include a keyboard/mouse and is hugely underpowered.

Apple should make a $300 LCD tops.

Even if it was $350, I'd go for it.
The one nice thing about Apple LCDs is that they include a USB AND Firewire hub. Hard to find on affordable LCDs.

As much as I hate Dell, but they offer some good-features and well-priced LCDs.

-t

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
I agree with him also that the mini calls out for a smaller and cheaper monitor. Quite likely a CRT.

CRTs are cheap but quite bulky, though, kinda ruining the mininess, IMHO.

Perhaps even a 12" LCD, which is still widely used in laptops, would suffice. As components, they're not expensive, but I don't know if anyone makes actual 12" displays anymore?

J

[SimeyTheLimey]

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
CRTs are cheap but quite bulky, though, kinda ruining the mininess, IMHO.

Perhaps even a 12" LCD, which is still widely used in laptops, would suffice. As components, they're not expensive, but I don't know if anyone makes actual 12" displays anymore?

J

Personally, I doubt many users would go for a 12" monitor on their desktop. The only reason people put up with them on laptops is because there is a substantial gain in portability. Portability isn't an issue with a desktop. But usability is, and this is a computer to be used, not an art gallery item.

To a large extent, form factor isn't an issue either. A small computer is cute, but I bet the price is what will sell the mini. People simply won't spend two to three times as much on their monitor as their computer. It may be that for many people a 15" or 17" third party LCD will be the sweet spot, but I bet a lot of people will still get a <$200 CRT to go with this <$500 computer.

[TheJoshu]

Originally posted by spectre:
Well, Apple does actually sell at least one relatively cheap CRT monitor, albeit it is kinda difficult to find: http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPL....3.1.1.0?55,52

6-8 weeks for delivery!!

[pliny]

who?

[itai195]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
But someone in the market for a $499 computer will have sticker shock at a $1000 monitor. So sell them a cheaper one. It doesn't have to have Apple on it.

I agree. I have a G5 PowerMac and even I get sticker shock at a $1000 monitor. Apple should re-examine their display line. Although I think that $1000 for their 20" monitor seems reasonable (haven't looked into quality lcd prices lately), most consumers don't buy 20" LCDs.

Didn't know that PS/2 to USB adaptors exist though. I thought they only made USB to PS/2? Fortunately it looks like Apple did drop he price on their USB keyboards to a much more reasonable $30.

[insha]

I don't know who "Bill Palmer" is, nor do I care.

Apple came out with a great affordable Mac that is not confined to Apple only stuff from the get-go and I like that.

Now Apple does not need to have their own brand cheapo monitor in their online/offline stores. I do agree that they need to stock some 3rd party monitors that a person whom might be buying a Mm would be interested in; but they are not obligated to do so.

All this "argument-for-argument-sake" is killing my buzz...

[typoon]

Originally posted by exca1ibur:
According to the Apple rep I talked with at Macworld, the target market is mainly PC switchers who HAVE a monitor, keyboard and mouse and this is more a second computer. The system is targeted for people to mainly get a feel for MacOSX and would look to upgrade in the future to a higher end system over time. Not pretty much a first buyer computer trying to piece together an entire computer setup. So really it isn't a direct target market for a new user, I do see and a agree with a few of your point though.

However, also at the same time, people complained about choice and paying for options they didn't want. Now they have the choice of ANY DVDI/VGA monitor, not an ADC Apple only monitor. They have a choice of a two, seven, or ten button mice, not a single button mouse. Same for keyboards, They seem to be fighting a never winning battle here in my opinion, but for the market they are targeting I think they did a reasonable job with the Mini. I totally agree, now with this product, they should have more third party options at their store, this would solve a lot of those issues you bring. A big selection of other displays (CRT and LCD), mice and keyboards.

I would agree with that assesment. I think it will be for switchers and those who just want a second computer for their children or parents who don't need something too powerful or are looking to upgrade the PC that they were handed down by their children. It will also be great for those who need space saving. I know that I might get at least one so that I can save some space on my desk.

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
Personally, I doubt many users would go for a 12" monitor on their desktop.

Yeah, I was just wondering whether they'd be in the dirt cheap category with some CRTs by now, but most likely not.

Then there's of course 2.5"

J

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by SimeyTheLimey:
That's precisely the criticism. If you are going to sell a low end relatively inexpensive computer, you need to offer some kind of comparably-priced monitor in the same store. If you send them down the road to buy a Dell monitor, they are pretty likely to walk out of that other store with a Dell computer to go with it.

Just stock something like the LaCie. They are pretty.

That's not the idea behind the mini. It's supposed to make switching easy. Switchers already have a monitor. They already have a keyboard, a mouse, a printer.

All they need is the CPU.

If you want/need to buy a mac from scratch I suggest to go and get an iMac. Far better value, especially with the 20" screen.

[ink]

Originally posted by Disgruntled Head of C-3PO:
Doesn't it also just have TWO usb ports, so you plug in your PC KB/mouse and you are out of ports unless you get a hub. The costs keep adding up where is just makes more sense to get an iMac or eMac.

Yep; that was my first thought. It's moronic of Apple to not include 2 more USB ports; particularly on the front of the computer. The "newbie" user that this is aimed at will want to plug their digital camera, or *gasp* their new iPod Shuffle in, only find that they need to buy Yet Another piece of equipment (along with Yet Another power wart). Then, carying your handy-dandy mac Mini becomes more problematic and tangly (colored iMacs, anyone?). I can't imagine that it would cost Apple anything at all to add two more USB ports, other than the art student designers would have to re-do the Feng Shui mojo (does it go with black tutleneck if we have four ports??!?). I haven't seen a mainboard developed without 2 controllers, with two ports each, in well on 5 years now.

Still, I like it. I hope Rev2 fixes some of these problems.

[itai195]

Most USB keyboards have integrated USB hubs. I've never seen one that didn't.

[CreepingDeth]

Yuck. Anything bigger than 19" (size, not resolution) is a leviathan. I have to find a desk to smaller than 32.5" deep for this POS Mitsubishi DP 100e I have right now. And that leaves me with about 10 inches of room for keyboard, but probably less than that. And then the dead iMac just sits there. I'd just like to see Apple make a monitor--er--display with the same resolution as the 10" iMac/Powerbook. I think that's nice and big, but decently small aswell. A 17" widescreen should price at about $600-$700 if I estimate. But if they could lower it to the matching $500 level, it would be nice. That said, it is not the point of the iMac mini in the first place, it would give those of us in the low-price market an opportunity to get a decent display to go with it so we don't have to use our junky display that we currently own.

But I'd still rather have a G5.