[amsalpemkcus]

Love reading them! But for the sake of posterity why not keep tabs on them? Would love to make these reporters eat crow after some sales figures begin to show. Oh well whatevah!

Here is a brilliant one for starters!

http://weblog.infoworld.com/techwatc...es/000977.html

INFOWORLD TECH WATCH

� Top Virus list for December '04 | Tech Watch Home | Apple's magic extends to Xsan �

January 12, 2005
Apple makes max mistake with Mac Mini

I've been covering PCs since 1981 and I like to think that by now I can spot a winner from a loser.

I'm afraid Apple fans, the Mac Mini is, well, not a winner. I'm not the only one. See Rob Pegoraro at the Washington Post. He's not that thrilled either. Nor is Seth Jayson at the Motley Fool, or Jack Kapica at the GlobeandMail.com in Canada.

For $500 you get far less than what you could get with a much better configured PC.

Let's look at the stats and see what you get and don't get.

Mac Mini, $499, 1.2GHz processor, 256MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, DVD-ROM/CD-RW.

For $599 you get a 1.4GHz processor and an 80GB hard drive.

What you don't get are a monitor, mouse keyboard.

Here's two configurations from Dell.

For $399 you get a 2.4GHz processor tower with 512MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, CD or DVD ROM drive, and a 17-inch monitor, a keyboard and a mouse.

For $699 you can get an Inspiron 1000 notebook. It has a 2.2GHz processor, 256MB RAM, a 30GB hard drive, CD ROM/DVD ROM, and a 14.1 inch XGA display. Of course the keyboard and mouse are built in.

It seems to me Apple will have a great deal of difficulty convincing most buyers looking for a solution rather than a nameplate to opt for the Mac Mini.

I know Apple fans will think I'm in the pay of Bill Gates but I'm not. I just don't see value conscious consumers who know how to shop buying a less than complete package for more money.

I predict that you will see Apple lower the price and by next year add a monitor, keyboard and mouse.

Let the hate mail begin.
Posted by E. Schwartz at January 12, 2005 12:25 PM

[amsalpemkcus]

Here is Mr. Fool himself!!

http://www.fool.com/Server/FoolPrint...ry05011203.htm

"It comes with no keyboard, no mouse, no monitor, no speakers. Kind of like Ford promising you a $7,000 car with no steering wheel or windshield. Long story short: Gathering the cheapest components I could find at Apple's online store, I came up with an $800 system before shipping (and the low-end monitor had a wait of six weeks). I think it's ludicrous to expect that someone buying a Mac -- and looking for Apple style, after all -- is going to want to plug in a pizza-stained, three-year-old keyboard and a mouse chock full of desk scum. Why not just shell out the extra $500 for the low-end iMac, which has more juice and comes loaded and packed inside a crisp, flat-screen monitor?"



How insightful!!

[Spheric Harlot]

I love this part:

For $399 you get a 2.4GHz processor tower with 512MB RAM, 40GB hard drive, CD or DVD ROM drive, and a 17-inch monitor, a keyboard and a mouse.


For $699 you can get an Inspiron 1000 notebook. It has a 2.2GHz processor, 256MB RAM, a 30GB hard drive, CD ROM/DVD ROM, and a 14.1 inch XGA display. Of course the keyboard and mouse are built in.

He seems to miss entirely that the PC-using potential Mac mini customers are interested in Apple because they want something that doesn't suck.

[Spheric Harlot]

Originally posted by amsalpemkcus:
Here is Mr. Fool himself!!

http://www.fool.com/Server/FoolPrint...ry05011203.htm

"Why not just shell out the extra $500 for the low-end iMac, which has more juice and comes loaded and packed inside a crisp, flat-screen monitor?"

Analysis:



Dear Apple Marketing and Products Divisions,

It's working already. I think you've got a real winner on your hands, either way!

Congrtltns, etc.

-s*

[TETENAL]

Ars technica is also not enthusiastic about the Mac mini:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...e/mac-mini.ars

They also call it "xMac" for some unknown reason. Pretty shitty article if you ask me.

[AB^2=BCxAC]

That Ars article was pretty harsh.

I thought the point of the Mac Mini was to give people a cheap Apple computer to use their iPod and digital cameras with... which it solves pretty well. USB 2? Check. Firewire? Check. iLife? Check. Well, alright then!

[hayesk]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
That Ars article was pretty harsh.

I thought the point of the Mac Mini was to give people a cheap Apple computer to use their iPod and digital cameras with... which it solves pretty well. USB 2? Check. Firewire? Check. iLife? Check. Well, alright then!

Agreed. Some people are talking as if this is an eMac or iMac replacement. It isn't. It's for those that have a PC and want to try a Mac.

[chris v]

1. Spend ten years whining that Apple doesn't make a low-end machine W/O a monitor.

2. Whine that Apple's new low-end machine doesn't have a monitor.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

[brapper]

exactly.
Can't please the complainers.

[IonCable]

I'll was just all over the Dell site, can't find a Dell for $399, much less the one they have listed. The cheapest I could find was $499 with 256, 40 HD, Intel Graphics, 2.4 Celeron. It did have 17" CRT, speakers and Keyboard and Mouse.

I bet infoworld thought Microsoft BOB was going to be hit and longhorn would ship on time.

[chris v]

http://www.canada.com/national/natio...c90&page=1

[Judge_Fire]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
That Ars article was pretty harsh.

Nah, that's just Jade's way of expressing love.

J

[f1000]

Creative lambasts Apple iPod Shuffle

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=20688


IRiver CEO 'surprised' at Apple's iPod Shuffle

http://www.itworld.com/Tech/2987/050113iriver/

[Kilbey]

Originally posted by chris v:
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...c90&page=1

From that article:

Where, in other words, is the BMW strategy? It is as if BMW suddenly tried to undercut Honda's Accord or Toyota's Camry. While there's no denying there is a large market for value-priced cars, by competing directly against those products BMW would be putting its margins at risk. More importantly, it would be ample reason for investors to wonder whether BMW executives had lost their minds. Why would they suddenly abandon what they did best -- engineering interesting products -- and start trying to sell family econo-boxes?

Is that why BMW is selling the Mini Cooper?

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
They also call it "xMac" for some unknown reason.

Either they're avid followers of this forum or they just like that name better.

The xMac (I made the name and I like it better than Mac Mini)...

[f1000]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
They also call it "xMac" for some unknown reason.

I'd prefer to see it called the µMac.

[typoon]

Originally posted by chris v:
1. Spend ten years whining that Apple doesn't make a low-end machine W/O a monitor.

2. Whine that Apple's new low-end machine doesn't have a monitor.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.

Exactly. Apple is Damned if they do and Damned if they don't Well now they did and it's still the same thing.

[FulcrumPilot]

I don't understand all this criticism about no keyboard, mouse and monitor. One can just buy one of the KVM switches and use their PC and the mac mini quiet easily from the same keyboard and mouse I would think. Anyone have any experience with these KVM switches? I think apple would do well to bundle it with mac minis.

http://iogear.com/main.php?loc=produ...p;category=kvm

[Mastrap]

Originally posted by Kilbey:

Is that why BMW is selling the Mini Cooper?

That is correct.

[t6hawk]

Originally posted by chris v:
http://www.canada.com/national/natio...c90&page=1

You guys do realize the National Post is only good as toilet paper right? Most canadians read papers that have some semblance of intelligence writing articles, unlike the National Post which has...well you get the picture.

[Kenneth]

Originally posted by Kilbey:
From that article:


Is that why BMW is selling the Mini Cooper?

BMW also offers the 1-series.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by FulcrumPilot:
I don't understand all this criticism about no keyboard, mouse and monitor. One can just buy one of the KVM switches and use their PC and the mac mini quiet easily from the same keyboard and mouse I would think. Anyone have any experience with these KVM switches? I think apple would do well to bundle it with mac minis.

http://iogear.com/main.php?loc=produ...p;category=kvm

What's a good one for me? I have a Desktop PC and a powerbook 12inch. I'd like to use my keyboard/mouse/monitor between the two without pulling a bunch of cords off (which is why i still use my pc to surf the web from time to time. no stretching for the laptop keyboard.)

how much do these guys run? i was poking around in the site and got lost! .. lol

[OreoCookie]

I'm in the process of designing a multi-media center and a small barebone (with a bigger footprint) would cost me as much or more with a less capable graphics card. Ok, the harddrive would be bigger, but I would spend more, too.

Just the mobo and case would cost me around 300 € (you can get them cheaper, yes, but a good one, not the most expensive one costs around 300 €). I still need a CPU, memory, a harddrive, and an optical drive. And no, it wouldn't have a monitor or keyboard or mouse.

Anyone comparing the Mac mini to a `big' cheap system is comparing Apple's and Oranges. IMHO, you should compare the Mac mini to those small barebones that become increasingly popular. And if you do, it compares quite favorably.

I'm seriously tempted to buy one.

[typoon]

This article is not dissing the Mac Mini but it's a good read.

"Mac Mini: What you need to know"

[Thorin]

Originally posted by AB^2=BCxAC:
That Ars article was pretty harsh.

I thought the point of the Mac Mini was to give people a cheap Apple computer to use their iPod and digital cameras with... which it solves pretty well. USB 2? Check. Firewire? Check. iLife? Check. Well, alright then!

After picking it apart a bit and cracking a couple of jokes, I got the impression that he actually liked it.

It’s not about the computer. It’s about the effect, or rather the affect. The “y” of xMac, or Mac mini, is another question: why not Windows? For people in the real world, the Mac mini, with the included software, does everything people need, while not doing things they don't need, like becoming infected with malware.

And the Mac mini does it at a price, US$499, competitive with the charcoal turds produced by more successful PC vendors. It's taken twenty years, but Apple may have come full circle at last.

Sounds broadly positive to me.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Ars technica is also not enthusiastic about the Mac mini:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...e/mac-mini.ars

They also call it "xMac" for some unknown reason. Pretty shitty article if you ask me.

Probably because they were looking at my [now 2 year old] mockup

[scottiB]

Originally posted by typoon:
This article is not dissing the Mac Mini but it's a good read.

"Mac Mini: What you need to know"

Good line from that article:

(T)he company’s real goal was not just to make a tiny Mac, or a low-cost Mac. It was, to paraphrase one Apple executive, to solve the problem of how to make a $499 computer without it being a piece of junk.

[Judge_Fire]

Does Paul Thurrott actually liking it and complementing Apple count as bashing

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles...rticleID=45096

J

[Ratm]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Ars technica is also not enthusiastic about the Mac mini:

http://arstechnica.com/articles/paed...e/mac-mini.ars

They also call it "xMac" for some unknown reason. Pretty shitty article if you ask me.

The author is actually a Mac User from what I've read from his posts he likes the Macmini.I think he might be trying to mock the PeeCee trolls on that site...maybe? could be? . The name xMac is applied to any rumored Apple PC who's technical specifications and name aren't yet known.

[mishap]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Probably because they were looking at my [now 2 year old] mockup

hmm, i doubt it.

[typoon]

Originally posted by Judge_Fire:
Does Paul Thurrott actually liking it and complementing Apple count as bashing

http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles...rticleID=45096

J

I'm surprised he could even muster writing that short article about it. He seems to like the Mac mini.

[turtle777]

Originally posted by TETENAL:
Ars technica is also not enthusiastic about the Mac mini:

A** technica ? What do you expect...

-t

[Ratm]

He's had it up to Here with his PC

[FulcrumPilot]

Add this to the list of nay-sayers:

Someone big working for Dell

"It's interesting the iPod has been out for three years and it's only this past year it's become a raging success. Well those things that become fads rage and then they drop off. When I was growing up there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman – a rage, everyone had to have one," he said. "Well you don't hear about the Walkman anymore. I believe that one product wonders come and go. You have to have sustainable business models, sustainable strategy."

-Kevin Rollins

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by FulcrumPilot:
Add this to the list of nay-sayers:

Someone big working for Dell

"It's interesting the iPod has been out for three years and it's only this past year it's become a raging success. Well those things that become fads rage and then they drop off. When I was growing up there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman – a rage, everyone had to have one," he said. "Well you don't hear about the Walkman anymore. I believe that one product wonders come and go. You have to have sustainable business models, sustainable strategy."

-Kevin Rollins

Synopsis of quote: Don't bother creating anything that is wildly popular and makes a considerably amount of money... because it's doomed to become unpopular... eventually.

I'm also sorry to say, but the iPod isn't a pair of Ugg boots. It's a platform for audio media... so it's ever changing. It's as cool as the music on the device.

[chris v]

Originally posted by FulcrumPilot:
Add this to the list of nay-sayers:

Someone big working for Dell

"It's interesting the iPod has been out for three years and it's only this past year it's become a raging success. Well those things that become fads rage and then they drop off. When I was growing up there was a product made by Sony called the Sony Walkman – a rage, everyone had to have one," he said. "Well you don't hear about the Walkman anymore. I believe that one product wonders come and go. You have to have sustainable business models, sustainable strategy."

-Kevin Rollins

Newsflash: Sony is still alive and kicking, 20 years later.

[BasketofPuppies]

But it's moved onto other product lines. The Walkman brand still exists, but it isn't as important to Sony as it used to be.

Apple has a habit of focusing on the same products and changing them little until sales drop to next to nothing. The iMac, which from a consumer perspective, changed little for almost four years after it was first released, is the best example, but hardly the only one.

Unlike the iMac, Apple has diversified the iPod brand, but time and increasing competition will still take their tolls on it.

Only time will tell if Steve can deal with the eventual, inevitable downfall of the iPod better than he did with the iMac.

[hayesk]

Originally posted by BasketofPuppies:

Only time will tell if Steve can deal with the eventual, inevitable downfall of the iPod better than he did with the iMac.

I see two things wrong with that:
1. I think Steve dealt with the "downfall" of the iMac just fine thanks. The iMac G5 is a fantastic and popular machine.
2. The iPod will slow down, sure. But when people replace their iPods in a few years, I'll bet they'll buy another iPod. People who replaced their Sony Walkmans bought more Sony Walkmans. The Sony Walkman was popular right up until cassettes went away. That was the reason for its downfall, not some "fad" ending. Are you (and the Dell guy) saying that digital music will go away and that will cause the downfall of the iPod?

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally posted by hayesk:
I see two things wrong with that:
1. I think Steve dealt with the "downfall" of the iMac just fine thanks. The iMac G5 is a fantastic and popular machine.

I meant the iMac G4. Initial sales were strong, but not many consumers were willing to pay $1400+ for a computer during an economic downturn. (And schools weren't willing to deal with abusive students who didn't know better or did know better but didn't care damaging less durable than CRT LCD screens.)

2. The iPod will slow down, sure. But when people replace their iPods in a few years, I'll bet they'll buy another iPod. People who replaced their Sony Walkmans bought more Sony Walkmans. The Sony Walkman was popular right up until cassettes went away. That was the reason for its downfall, not some "fad" ending. Are you (and the Dell guy) saying that digital music will go away and that will cause the downfall of the iPod?

Sony expanded the Walkman line into portable CD players (first called Discman) and portable television sets (Watchman). People are still buying portable cassette - books on tape are still popular - and CD players, but few care whether they're from Sony or not.

The market for hard disk- and flash-based music players will continue to exist for decades, but I doubt the iPod brand will remain important nearly as long.

You cannot sell the same products and brands over and over again over the years and expect sales not to drop. Whether Apple will have something (or some things) just as trendy and profitable when the iPod becomes just another low margin consumer electronics line is yet to be seen. (It certainly isn't the iSight.)

[Superchicken]

For the record I started the term Xmac. To bad a ton of idiots don't realize that when Apple uses an X as a prefix it's always capital. Sadly I also predicted the names of the iPod mini and Mac mini fairly closely, (I was off by mini iPod and iMac mini you can check posts all over) I'm just waiting for my iNewt... though with my luck it'll be Power Newt, or iPod newt.. or... David you suck mini...