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Superchicken · Jan 20, 2005, 04:36 PM

Hey, I know my parents Church has been looking at getting some sort of comp setup for use with their projector and stuff (currently a guy is bringing in his iBook and doing a decent job with Keynote, though last I saw I think he used AppleWorks). Anyway, But they'd like an in building option. I was just thinking iWork plus keynote would be an awesome option. That said, I just realized the mini only has one video out option it seems. I imagine you could run the projector as the primary display or have some sort of switch. But I think they'd like to have some better options...

MaxPower2k3 · Jan 20, 2005, 05:09 PM

Not knowing what their budget is, I'll recommend this:

http://www.gefen.com/kvm/product.jsp?prod_id=1403

It's not exactly cheap ($299), but gefen makes quality stuff. Anything to do with DVI (cables/repeaters/splitters/switchers etc.) is quite expensive... perhaps it would be easier to use the DVI > VGA adapter and then split the VGA signal, assuming the projector has a VGA input?

If the projector has a component input, you can go from DVI to VGA and then split the VGA, run one to a monitor and the other to a VGA > Component adapter, and run that to the projector. I think that's probably a little bit more complicated than you're looking for, though

kikkoman · Jan 20, 2005, 05:47 PM

Haven't been to church in years so I guess they are now giving sermons with PowerPoint or Keynote? I wonder what that's like.

Superchicken · Jan 20, 2005, 05:54 PM

Pastors often are now using PowerPoint (sadly) sometimes it adds sometimes it takes away. Our Pastor at my church actually does fairly good PowerPoint stuff, as good as PowerPoint is I mean

. It generally is used to put up passages so that everyone can follow along using the same text. As well it allows for pictures. During one sermon Steve used a clip from Everybody loves Raymond. They also run these "iWorship" clips off a DVD player. Also a LOT of congregations now are running some sort of software for putting up the lyrics to the worship songs they're singing. Often with custom backgrounds and stuff.

Will this be able to monitor span or not though I'm wondering? Or is this something where the person using would have to have whatever they're working on on the screen? And the projector does to S Video, as well as Composite I believe.

Amorya · Jan 20, 2005, 06:07 PM

Regarding church use, ours uses it to put the liturgy onscreen (so people don't have to fumble with books), but during the sermon the screen is blanked. It works quite well - we use Keynote, and the Fade and Fade Through Black transitions (used between sections) make it look very snazzy, in an understated kind of way.

Amorya

Mithras · Jan 20, 2005, 06:23 PM

Projectors often have a VGA out or pass-through, so that you can have a monitor mirroring the display.

Also: As the others said, PowerPoint in church WTF?

olePigeon · Jan 20, 2005, 06:51 PM

Originally posted by Mithras:
Projectors often have a VGA out or pass-through, so that you can have a monitor mirroring the display.

What he said.

Xaositect · Jan 20, 2005, 07:08 PM

I think what you want is two displays showing different screens, like one a slide and the other speaker notes. For that you need two display outs. One will not cut it.

That said, there are ways to get video out through Firewire. You might want to pursue those adapters (cost, which I don't know offhand, will probably be your deciding factor).

Good luck!

The Godfather · Jan 20, 2005, 07:23 PM

The iBook can be "dual-screened" with some software. That will be the most elegant solution, though more costly.

Superchicken · Jan 20, 2005, 07:36 PM

Yah see that's the thing on a Church's budget everything counts. Hmm Firewire is an interesting option though...

Mithras · Jan 20, 2005, 07:45 PM

First look at the projector, and check whether it has a VGA out.
mini + cheap LCD may not be very different from an iBook, in the end...

Xeo · Jan 20, 2005, 08:44 PM

Don't eMacs have video out? That'd work too and would cost the same extra as that $300 item.

Otherwise, the idea of having a display switch would work. That way they can set it up without having video sent to the projector, and then switch it when it's ready to go.

Oh, and "iWork plus keynote" as you worded it makes me think you don't know that keynote comes with iWork? Or am I mistaken?

Superchicken · Jan 21, 2005, 12:10 AM

Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking. I've been reading the iWork page regularly, Keynote is why I'd buy it (obviously for this job Pages won't help all that much). And the monitor switch sounds like a great idea... any idea where I could find one?

olePigeon · Jan 21, 2005, 01:21 AM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Sorry, I don't know what I was thinking. I've been reading the iWork page regularly, Keynote is why I'd buy it (obviously for this job Pages won't help all that much). And the monitor switch sounds like a great idea... any idea where I could find one?

Any ole computer store.

A nice, shielded, digital one will cost you $80. A simple switch box (which will probably cause ghosting) will cost you $10.

Mithras · Jan 21, 2005, 08:23 AM

For the third time, first check whether the projector already has a VGA out, as many do. That will save you time, money, and ridicule.

Superchicken · Jan 21, 2005, 12:29 PM

But if the monitor has VGA wouldn't that just create a mirror? Or can you span that way?

Thorin · Jan 21, 2005, 01:00 PM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
But if the monitor has VGA wouldn't that just create a mirror? Or can you span that way?

If you only have one output on the computer, then you're only ever going to get a mirror (unless you can get video out of a firewire port somehow as someone has suggested).

The Godfather · Jan 21, 2005, 01:28 PM

Any firewire, DVI, or electronic hubs would bring your price way above $1000, plus do you want to make it complicated like a Windows system?

If the church projector has VGA-in and VGA-out, your options:

iBook with the monitor spanning app = $1000**
Mac mini + CRT* + keyboard + mouse = $600

If the church projector hav VGA-in but no VGA-out, your options:

iBook with the monitor spanning app = $1000

The Mac mini will NEVER do monitor spanning.

* cost conscious, right?
** as found in the U.S. Apple store

euchomai · Jan 21, 2005, 02:24 PM

At our church we use a eMac spanned. The second monitor is the one mirroring the image projected. When I speak I use Keynote and a remote to do the slides myself. When the Sr. Pastor speaks he uses PowerPoint and some dude to switch the slides for him.

We do all video in Final Cut and then use Quicktime Pro to show any video. For using DVDs we use the Apple DVD Player. I am however looking for a better DVD player that might be more suited for our uses.

I've found that Keynote and third party themes don't transfer well into PowerPoint, even though PowerPoint is now a much better program than Keynote (presenter tools). I haven't used the new Keynote though, so hopefully it will fix that problem.

Superchicken · Jan 21, 2005, 05:17 PM

Rats... oh well... hmm anyone KNOW of any video over firewire solutions?

Xaositect · Jan 21, 2005, 06:07 PM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Rats... oh well... hmm anyone KNOW of any video over firewire solutions?

A few are available. I went to Google (Google is your friend!) and searched for video over firewire (just those three words) and got a couple useful hits on each of the first 3 pages.

They are a tad expensive, so the iBook or eMac with the firmware hack for spanning (Google is your friend for instructions - or search the hardware forums here as well, several posts with instructions) will be your most cost-effective Mac solution.

If you look at PC solutions, a $500 PC, add second video card ($50) plus Powerpoint ($150 by itself? are they nuts? oh yeah, it's M$, I forgot) and a monitor (CRT 17", $60), plus anti-virus/anti-spyware/firewall add-in (McAfee Suite, $65) if you'll use it for anything more. Total: $760 or $825+recurring yearly AV costs. If you go for MS Office, so you have a real word processor (not wordpad), you go to $910/$975+recurring. If you are a Church+School, you can get MS Office Student/Teacher and save some.

eMac solution, $800 for eMac, $20 for second monitor dongle, and $80 for iWorks. Total $900. If it's a Church+School, educator discount will lower those prices. iBook solution will be $200 more, but add portability of base unit.

If you eBay for eMacs, you might get one cheaper. Ditto for PC. There is also the Apple refurb store. If you buy it from there, get the AppleCare. I recommend the AppleCare anyway, but did not include it in the costs above for straight comparison.

These are the prices/options I could throw together in 5 minutes. Other people may have a few better options, or if you look a bit harder than I did you might find beter deals.

Superchicken · Jan 24, 2005, 10:36 PM

Any options for S Video over Firewire?

Link · Jan 24, 2005, 11:10 PM

I wouldn't be surprised if the typic ibook spanning hack works and allows you to use spanning with the DVI and S-Video out

We need someone with a mini to give that a shot, see if they can do it with a TV and a monitor, I bet the answer is yes.

Xaositect · Jan 25, 2005, 05:07 PM

The iBook, iMac and eMac spanning hacks work because there are two display outs - one internal and one for external display. There is only one display out port on the mini.

Superchicken · Jan 25, 2005, 09:57 PM

Hmm, I think this is quickly relegating the mini to only being able to be used if it were controlled remotely by another computer... how much is a license for Apple Remote desktop?

Superchicken · Jan 25, 2005, 10:16 PM

Hmmm I think my dreams of the mini have been shattered.... oh well... perhaps they could get an iMac

Link · Jan 25, 2005, 10:31 PM

I want to say a straight off DVI splitter would do it, but that'd degrade video quality.

Someone should make a DVI "dongle" that lets the S-video pins go out through a seperate part.

The Godfather · Jan 26, 2005, 01:08 AM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Hmm, I think this is quickly relegating the mini to only being able to be used if it were controlled remotely by another computer... how much is a license for Apple Remote desktop?

Why would you add complications to a Mac system, if you could just get the Windows PC and save a bundle?

Mithras · Jan 26, 2005, 06:21 AM

I still don't see what's so bad about having a mirrored display. If anything I would guess that people find a dual-screen setup confusing.

Cipher13 · Jan 26, 2005, 07:03 AM

Please Learn To Not Capitalise Every Word In A ****ing Sentence, As Demonstrated Here.

It makes you look even more stupid.

euchomai · Jan 26, 2005, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Please Learn To Not Capitalise Every Word In A ****ing Sentence, As Demonstrated Here.

It makes you look even more stupid.

Who are you directing your snide remark to? Superchicken is my guess, but he didn't do what you are saying he did. Bad day so far?

turtle777 · Jan 26, 2005, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
Please Learn To Not Capitalise Every Word In A ****ing Sentence, As Demonstrated Here.

It makes you look even more stupid.

wHO aRE yOU tALKING tO ?

-T

Superchicken · Jan 26, 2005, 01:28 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
wHO aRE yOU tALKING tO ?

-T

I believe that Cipher is complaining about the title of my post in which I capitalized letters...

By the way, why wouldn't I get them to get a PC... well Keynote would be very slow under PearPC...

Amorya · Jan 26, 2005, 01:43 PM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
I believe that Cipher is complaining about the title of my post in which I capitalized letters...

You're supposed to do that in titles, no?

Amorya

turtle777 · Jan 26, 2005, 03:04 PM

Originally posted by Amorya:
You're supposed to do that in titles, no?

Amorya

What happened to your stars ?
You're showing zero !

-t

Superchicken · Jan 26, 2005, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by Amorya:
You're supposed to do that in titles, no?

Amorya

I dono, I think Cipher makes up random rules that people break so he can get mad at em... it makes him feel more manly...

Amorya · Jan 26, 2005, 07:37 PM

Originally posted by turtle777:
What happened to your stars ?
You're showing zero !

-t

They got held up in customs when I refused to pay import tax. I'll get them any day now!

Amorya

Cipher13 · Jan 26, 2005, 08:16 PM

Originally posted by euchomai:
Who are you directing your snide remark to? Superchicken is my guess, but he didn't do what you are saying he did. Bad day so far?

Check the title.

Originally posted by Superchicken:
I dono, I think Cipher makes up random rules that people break so he can get mad at em... it makes him feel more manly...

Sure, okay, that must be it.

Originally posted by Amorya:
You're supposed to do that in titles, no?

Amorya

Nope.

iCol · Jan 27, 2005, 11:18 AM

Technically his title should have read: "Connecting a Monitor and Projector to one DVI Port"

Other than that, he did nothing wrong. Certainly not enough wrong to warrant an attack from another board member... I really don't see his problem.

C

The Godfather · Jan 27, 2005, 08:19 PM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
I believe that Cipher is complaining about the title of my post in which I capitalized letters...

By the way, why wouldn't I get them to get a PC... well Keynote would be very slow under PearPC...

Just get a Dell. If you are going to spend $500, get something futureproof, not a mini.

Cipher13 · Jan 27, 2005, 08:39 PM

Originally posted by iCol:
Technically his title should have read: "Connecting a Monitor and Projector to one DVI Port"

Other than that, he did nothing wrong. Certainly not enough wrong to warrant an attack from another board member... I really don't see his problem.

C

That's exactly what didn't write, and that's exactly what he did wrong, so... what don't you see?

Superchicken · Jan 27, 2005, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by iCol:
Technically his title should have read: "Connecting a Monitor and Projector to one DVI Port"

Other than that, he did nothing wrong. Certainly not enough wrong to warrant an attack from another board member... I really don't see his problem.

C

Cipher... what now not only did you study theology under someone who's apparently more knowledgeable than anyone on the forum, but grammar too?

Cipher13 · Jan 27, 2005, 09:28 PM

Originally posted by Superchicken:
Cipher... what now not only did you study theology under someone who's apparently more knowledgeable than anyone on the forum, but grammar too?

1. You quoted the wrong person.

2. I never stated the former, nor the latter.

3. I am correct regarding your capitalisation, regardless.

The Godfather · Feb 2, 2005, 12:24 PM

USB2 -> VGA converter

http://www.mct.com.tw/prod/usb20svga.htm

Kilbey · Feb 2, 2005, 12:44 PM

Originally posted by Cipher13:
That's exactly whatSOMETHING MISSING?!?! didn't write, and that's exactly what he did wrong, so... what don't you see?

See above Mr. Perfect.

The Godfather · Feb 12, 2005, 10:16 PM

802.11b/g -> VGA converter

http://www.ramelectronics.net/html/KJ-200.htm

Betcha you have never seen anything like it

Drakino · Feb 13, 2005, 12:10 PM

Originally posted by Link:
Someone should make a DVI "dongle" that lets the S-video pins go out through a seperate part.

Not possible. That dongle that Apple sells isn't a simple "Pass pin 1-5 here out to an SVideo port". It actually has some looped back pins that the video card sees, and changes the port from outputting DVI and VGA to one that outputs SVideo and composite.

analogika · Feb 13, 2005, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by The Godfather:
iBook with the monitor spanning app = $1000**

Monitor spanning is NOT RECOMMENDED.

Those graphics chips are *technically* capable of spanning, BUT they are untested for that feature, and Apple can buy them in bulk, cheap, for that reason.

The card gets HOT when spanning, and while variance may be high enough that individual machines will take it in stride, the likelihood of one of those *untested* chips blowing while performing a function that neither the card nor the cooling mechanism of the 'book are built to handle is quite high.

We get quite a few in the shop where I work, apparently.