[Cody Dawg]

From AP - At least 9 people confirmed dead when L.A. trains collide.

Does anyone know anything more about this? Anyone out in L.A.?

I go to the beach and come home and there is more tragedy out of California.

[BoomStick]

A suicidal man parked his car on the tracks then ran when he chickened out.

They caught him.

[Sherwin]

That sucks.

Makes one wonder about the potential for terrorist attacks caused in this fashion.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
A suicidal man parked his car on the tracks then ran when he chickened out.

They caught him.

This infuriates me. If you're going to kill yourself, don't be a selfish prick and take out a bunch of innocent people with you!

[maxintosh]

Not a great week for commuters -- there was a fire started by a homeless guy in NYC this week in a switch room that took out the entire C line and partially crippled the A line, two lines which carry about 3/4 quarter million passengers a day. It could take 6+ months to repair. (They originally estimated 3-5 years but that was quickly changed by the MTA when nobody believed it.)



They've been doing the best they can to handle it and fortunately nobody was hurt. The A trains are being controlled by hand (slow), a bunch of shuttle busses have been deployed, and the V train is extending to fill in some of the holes. And just in time for the delivery of hundreds of shiny brand new Kawasaki R180 cars to replace the aging, ugly cars on the A/C...

It does make one wonder how secure our transit systems are when things like this can happen, though.

[Mafia]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
A suicidal man parked his car on the tracks then ran when he chickened out.

They caught him.

i wonder what they will charge him with.

[alphasubzero949]

Some dumb Mexican changed his mind about killing himself and decided to leave his Jeep on the tracks. Just the night before he kept attempting to kill himself but failed.

So far he has been charged with 10 counts of murder. Somewhere else recently though, I heard that 12 were killed.

I agree with others on his selfishness. I hope they throw the book at this idiot.

[malvolio]

What the hell kind of wimpy trains do they have out in Cali?! Around here, if a train hits a Jeep, the Jeep ends up looking like a stomped beer can, and the train just keeps on going.

[Demonhood]

it wasn't an Amtrak train, it was a Metrolink train (an above ground subway). they're not quite as sturdy.

[maxintosh]

Yes, it is quite odd that the train derailed. But since this was a grade crossing it looks as if the vehicle got stuck between the tracks and the only way for the train to go was over it, which derailed it.

[Athens]

It is very strange it derailed, the type of train that hit the car is the same type as the West Coast Express (picture below) and those things are big and heavy. I think it was a fluke personally.

[tooki]

Originally posted by maxintosh:
This infuriates me. If you're going to kill yourself, don't be a selfish prick and take out a bunch of innocent people with you!

Selfish prick indeed!

I hope they convict him of 10+ counts of vehicular homicide, and attempted homicide on the remaining 200. And make sure that when he goes to jail, he is watched like a hawk to make sure he doesn't try and kill himself again. He needs to sit long and hard about what he did!

tooki

[Athens]

Originally posted by tooki:
Selfish prick indeed!

I hope they convict him of 10+ counts of vehicular homicide, and attempted homicide on the remaining 200. And make sure that when he goes to jail, he is watched like a hawk to make sure he doesn't try and kill himself again. He needs to sit long and hard about what he did!

tooki

The guy was stupid but im sure it wasent his intention to kill any one. Def should pay for it though. But I think the train company has some investigating to do too such as why the train derailed, depending on the area why it couldnt be seen, or how a Car can end up on the track with out setting off a warning.

[wdlove]

Such a heinous act. He needs to be in a mental institution for the rest of his life, highly medicated.
My prayers go out tot he victims, family and friends.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Athens:
The guy was stupid but im sure it wasent his intention to kill any one.

Even if the train didn't derail. Think of the engineer driving the train that would be powerless against hitting him and the people on board. It's still a horrible accident that nobody would forget.

[saddino]

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Some dumb Mexican changed his mind about killing himself and decided to leave his Jeep on the tracks.

Er, what's the point of mentioning he's Mexican? Would you have said "Some dumb American changed his mind..." if he hadn't been Mexican?

[CD Hanks]

Just another day in LA.

I'm thinking there are angles to this we'll never know about.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by alphasubzero949:
Some dumb Mexican changed his mind about killing himself and decided to leave his Jeep on the tracks. Just the night before he kept attempting to kill himself but failed.

So far he has been charged with 10 counts of murder. Somewhere else recently though, I heard that 12 were killed.

I agree with others on his selfishness. I hope they throw the book at this idiot.

Insert whatever nationality you are, in place of the word Mexican. Making gross generalizations on the intelligence of certain ethnic groups really reflects on the intelligence of those making the stereotypes.

[CD Hanks]

Originally posted by KarlG:
Insert whatever nationality you are, in place of the word Mexican. Making gross generalizations on the intelligence of certain ethnic groups really reflects on the intelligence of those making the stereotypes.

I'm gritting my teeth for even deciding to dive into this, but if one says "all mexicans are dumb", yes that is a gross generalization and it's not terribly nice. To say "some dumb mexican" is fine because it's only referring to an individual.

Chill out. The guy is an idiot either way.

[Sven G]

Sadly, suicides in front of trains are the horrible "norm" also elsewhere (see Europe): why did he make that decision? what troubles did he have? did he feel abandoned by all? And so on...

Conversely, on another, only loosely related front: when, by #$£%&@*, will the US finally see the importance of rail travel, instead of those %&$£#! cars...?

Maybe the accident could have been avoided (not at all for sure), maybe not: anyway, it only exposes at least two kinds of problems - and both of them very, very socially related...

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Athens:
The guy was stupid but im sure it wasent his intention to kill any one.

OH, then; vehicular manslaughter instead of vehicular homicide. Either way, there should be jail time for this.

But I think the train company has some investigating to do too such as why the train derailed, depending on the area why it couldnt be seen, or how a Car can end up on the track with out setting off a warning.

Why the train derailed: Locomotives are big and heavy, but they can't just plow through a two-ton SUV. Most can't even plow through a compact car without taking at least some damage.

Why the car couldn't be seen: This is actually mostly irrelevant. The mass of a train is so large that their stopping distance tends to be over a mile (1.5 kilometers). They wouldn't have to just see the car, they'd have to see it from at least that far away or they wouldn't be able to do anything about it.

Why a car can end up on the tracks without setting off a warning: The rail lines currently don't have sensors built into them, which is what this would require.

[saddino]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
To say "some dumb mexican" is fine because it's only referring to an individual.
Chill out. The guy is an idiot either way.

But by that reasoning it's okay to say about Timothy McVeigh "Some dumb Catholic decided to blow up a federal building." My guess is if someone had said that, others would have responded "What does his being Catholic have to do with it?" and similarly here I think it's fair to ask "What does his being Mexican have to do with it?"

I think everyone here agrees he's an idiot. But his nationality, occupation, religion or sexual persuasion has nothing to do with his horrendous act.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by CD Hanks:
I'm gritting my teeth for even deciding to dive into this, but if one says "all mexicans are dumb", yes that is a gross generalization and it's not terribly nice. To say "some dumb mexican" is fine because it's only referring to an individual.

Chill out. The guy is an idiot either way.

To say "some dumb Mexican...," is a generalization about all Mexicans, because that's the way most people perceive it. Like it or not, we stereotype about groups, not individuals. This is no different than when we tell jokes about ethnic groups; we insert the nationality in the "joke," and people perceive it to include all members of that ethnic group.

[alphasubzero949]

HE IZ TEH RACIST!!!111one

I wasn't stereotyping all Mexicans as dumb. Oh, excuse me. I'm at MacNN, where anything not politically correct will get everyone up in arms.

Get over it.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by Sven G:
Conversely, on another, only loosely related front: when, by #$£%&@*, will the US finally see the importance of rail travel, instead of those %&$£#! cars...?

When rail travel can actually scale to a country the size of the US, which is probably never.

[alphasubzero949]

Oh looky here...a copycat...

http://www.ocregister.com/ocr/2005/0...cle_390206.php

This happened about 50 miles south of Glendale...also on a Metrolink/Amtrak line.

[BoomStick]

To my understanding the car was a Jeep Cherokee.

It barely qualifies as an SUV since my pickup weighs more.



Also in the story, he has a long history of drug abuse, arrests and domestic violence. His wife left him because of his stellar personality and ability to provide for them.

His sister in law even told him if he was going to kill himself, do it somehwere there was no people.

[iLikebeer]

Originally posted by KarlG:
To say "some dumb Mexican...," is a generalization about all Mexicans, because that's the way most people perceive it. Like it or not, we stereotype about groups, not individuals. This is no different than when we tell jokes about ethnic groups; we insert the nationality in the "joke," and people perceive it to include all members of that ethnic group.

Maybe you and probably many others generalize that way, but you're still not right. If he said some dumb latino, then yeah, you would be right.
Mexico is a country, and if the guy is an illegal immigrant, then I understand why he brought it up. Europeans around here tend to say some dumb American... all the time. Mexico is a country. People from Mexico are Mexican. Not all Mexicans are latino.

And yeah, jail time for him, what a tragedy.

[BoomStick]

I can guarantee you that the insurance carrier on the car is immidately going to deny coverage, if it's even insured.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally posted by iLikebeer:
Mexico is a country. People from Mexico are Mexican. Not all Mexicans are latino.

Try saying that here in California. You'll be shouted down as a racist faster than the state can turn out driver licenses for the illegals.

[OldManMac]

There is no difference in negatively stereotyping an ethnic group or a nationality, or a race of people. That's rather obvious to me.

[BoomStick]

The way y'all throw the term "redneck" around, I find this hypocritical.

[iLikebeer]

Originally posted by KarlG:
There is no difference in negatively stereotyping an ethnic group or a nationality, or a race of people. That's rather obvious to me.

He wasn't stereotyping anybody though. He said some dumb Mexican...
The guy was obviously dumb for what he did, and he happened to be from Mexico. Would that wording be better for you? I'd be pissed if someone from my family got killed by an illegal immigrant. If it had been any other country, would you have been okay with his wording? What if some dumb Canadian had done it?

My point is, most people would assume the guy parking the car was an
American, unless you give more info. Some people here in the southwest have some problems with all of the illegal immigration and would probably like to know the nationality, if the guy indeed was a legal resident or not.

[alphasubzero949]

Originally posted by iLikebeer:
What if some dumb Canadian had done it?

"Dumb" and "Canadian" together in a sentence? Who would have thought?

[cjrivera]

Originally posted by Millennium:


Why the train derailed: Locomotives are big and heavy, but they can't just plow through a two-ton SUV. Most can't even plow through a compact car without taking at least some damage.

I read that the the reason there was so much damage to the train and cars was that the engine was pushing the train (from the back), instead of pulling the train from the front. It is thought that there may not have much damage because the engine would likely have pushed the SUV out of the way, but instead had a regular car in the front. Also, the artice mentioned that because the engine was pushing the train, it cause an accordian effect that caused more damage.

I'll see if I can round up that article.

[alphasubzero949]

I usually see Metrolink and Amtrak cars being pushed with the locomotive in the back.

[CD Hanks]

Originally posted by KarlG:
To say "some dumb Mexican...," is a generalization about all Mexicans, because that's the way most people perceive it. Like it or not, we stereotype about groups, not individuals. This is no different than when we tell jokes about ethnic groups; we insert the nationality in the "joke," and people perceive it to include all members of that ethnic group.

Then the problem lies in the perception of the person reading it, not in the statement. As such, I'll continue to fall back on what I previously said. I don't have a problem continully telling someone "you're a bloody idiot for mistaking what someone said as some kind of global racist insult."

Tellin ya, people just love to bitch because they think they'll get something free or rewarding out of it.

[Millennium]

Originally posted by cjrivera:
I read that the the reason there was so much damage to the train and cars was that the engine was pushing the train (from the back), instead of pulling the train from the front. It is thought that there may not have much damage because the engine would likely have pushed the SUV out of the way, but instead had a regular car in the front.

I don't know about that theory, but see below...

Also, the artice mentioned that because the engine was pushing the train, it cause an accordian effect that caused more damage.

I think this is more likely to have been the trouble. The engine had all of those extra cars between it and the car, which effectively shielded it from taking any damage from impacting the car. While the cars were derailed, it could still push on them for a time, which made things even worse than they might have been otherwise.

If the locomotive had been in front, not only would there likely have not been the accordion effect, but most likely the locomotive would have been damaged to the point where it couldn't have run any further. It would still have skidded along the tracks or ground for some time due to raw momentum, but it wouldn't have had the added force of the engines pushing it along. So although I don't think that the locomotive-in-back configuration necessarily caused the problem, it almost certainly made the problem worse.

[cjrivera]

Found the link.

http://www.azdailysun.com/non_sec/na...storyID=102409


"Timothy Smith, state legislative chairman for the Brotherhood of Locomotive Engineers and Trainmen, faulted the rail line for its use of the "cab-car" to lead the train, with the locomotive pushing from the rear. Unlike a locomotive, a cab car has a small control booth for the engineer, along with passenger seating.

If the heavier locomotive was at the front of the train, Smith said, it would have probably pushed the vehicle off the tracks and avoided a derailment. Having a locomotive pushing from the rear also creates an "accordion" effect on the middle cars, increasing damage, he said. "

[Athens]

Originally posted by KarlG:
To say "some dumb Mexican...," is a generalization about all Mexicans, because that's the way most people perceive it. Like it or not, we stereotype about groups, not individuals. This is no different than when we tell jokes about ethnic groups; we insert the nationality in the "joke," and people perceive it to include all members of that ethnic group.

Americans are so pathetic, Guy number one uses the Words Some Dumb Mexican in a statment that is factually true the guy was dumb and was Mexican. Of course this is in bad taste because the same could have been accomplished with Some dumb guy, but there would prob have been some one pointing out that not all guys do this some woman do so im sure that would have come up. Guy number two is overally offended by this statment against one person and turns it into a generalization against all Mexicans.

Mexicans are just as racist as whites, whites are just as racists as blacks, blacks are just as racist as chines and so on and so on, WHY IS IT so vissual in the US, why are people to easliy offended by other stupid people. Its so fustrating reading all this back n forth crap.

[Athens]

Originally posted by Millennium:
I don't know about that theory, but see below...

I think this is more likely to have been the trouble. The engine had all of those extra cars between it and the car, which effectively shielded it from taking any damage from impacting the car. While the cars were derailed, it could still push on them for a time, which made things even worse than they might have been otherwise.

If the locomotive had been in front, not only would there likely have not been the accordion effect, but most likely the locomotive would have been damaged to the point where it couldn't have run any further. It would still have skidded along the tracks or ground for some time due to raw momentum, but it wouldn't have had the added force of the engines pushing it along. So although I don't think that the locomotive-in-back configuration necessarily caused the problem, it almost certainly made the problem worse.

There have been a good 6 cars being smashed by trains up here over the last 10 years, In every case the car is distroyed, and there is minor damage to the train and none I can remmeber derailed.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Millennium:
When rail travel can actually scale to a country the size of the US, which is probably never.

HSR would scale very well to regional areas of heavy travel in the US. Frankly airport congestion is becoming a massive problem, highways too, and regional planes spend more time on the ground getting ready to take off than actually in the air. The Acela is a good example of how HSR can help regional travel (Boston -> New York -> Washington D.C.). It's extremely popular for commuters on the Northeast Corridor -- many prefer it (including me) to flying since it is more comfortable, more spacious and more direct. With some government approval and improved track (and maybe killing off Amtrak altogether), the Acela could travel much faster than it does already. The trainsets themselves are TGV technology and are built for higher speed travel then they are used at. In fact it doesn't even really qualify as HSR by European standards, as its average speed is shy of 100 mph and tops out at 140 I believe.

We only have one even sort-of HSR line in the US and the TGV and ICE are extensive over Europe. Yes Europe is more compact but there are several corridors in the US that would be served well by HSR.

The emergence of new technology should also be more invested in by the US transportation authorities. Germany is already building its second Maglev (Transrapid) train which runs consistantly above 200 mph... Baltimore/Washington D.C. were toying with a MagLev airport connection. Plus with technology arriving like InducTrack (developed in Cali, no less) energy-efficient magnetic trains could theoretically travel safely at extremely high speeds approaching 400 mph in the not terribly distant future.

Obviously cross-country rail travel isn't very practical, but HSR is great for regional use... and vital, too, as our travel demands grow. Let us also not forget the drastic improvement our commuter rail, light rail and subway systems could use too. Good public transit is vital to metropolitan areas.

And good public transit doesn't include the "Bus Rapid Transit" fraud.

[Richard Edgar]

To get really high speeds out of trains, you have to have dedicated track. The TGV and LCE have dedicated lines with specialist signalling, in order to achieve high speeds (they can, of course, run over normal lines at lower speeds). Older lines tend to have too many curves (to avoid gradients, which are less of a problem for modern locomotives). Dedicated high speed lines can also reduce safety requirements slightly - the TGVs can be lighter because they don't have to cope with the possibility of slamming into goods trains or larger debris on the track (unlike the Acelera).

However, building those high speed lines takes money and political will. As the UK has demonstrated: the high speed link to the Channel Tunnel was only opened recently, ten years after the completion of the tunnel itself. Until now, trains on the French side travelled 100mph faster than on the UK side.

The comment about flying is quite correct - and was convincingly demonstrated by the TGV. This was initially put into service on the Paris-Lyon route, and beat the air journey time by a whole hour. It forced Air France to withdraw the Paris-Lyon route - and I suspect that something similar has happened on the Paris-Marseille route. Going back to the UK.... airlines complain of a lack of slots at Heathrow, yet people are flying the paltry distance from London to Edinburgh.

[maxintosh]

Originally posted by Richard Edgar:
However, building those high speed lines takes money and political will. As the UK has demonstrated: the high speed link to the Channel Tunnel was only opened recently, ten years after the completion of the tunnel itself. Until now, trains on the French side travelled 100mph faster than on the UK side.

Yep -- and I'm arguing that the US needs to pay more attention and grant more money to alternative transportation methods, as our existing methods (air and road travel) are becoming problematic in terms of capacity and environmental issues.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Originally posted by iLikebeer:
.... Not all Mexicans are latino.

...

Huh? Perhaps you mean, "Not all Latinos are Mexican."

[iLikebeer]

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
Huh? Perhaps you mean, "Not all Latinos are Mexican."

No, Mexico has many different ethnicities. Maybe not as diverse as the US, but not everyone down there is Latino/Hispanic. Maybe that is why KarlG was so offended. Some people just assume everyone from Mexico is Latino, which simply isn't true. I guess he is the one w/ the generalizing/stereotyping of race/nationalities problem.

[OldManMac]

Originally posted by Athens:
Its so fustrating reading all this back n forth crap.

So, why are you? Is someone holding a gun to your head, forcing you to?

[Millennium]

Originally posted by E's Lil Theorem:
Huh? Perhaps you mean, "Not all Latinos are Mexican."

Actually, it works both ways.

Latino is a relatively new ethnic identity, adopted by people of Latin American descent living in the US. There hasn't been much study of this yet, but the data out there would seem to indicate that most people who identify themselves as Latino are of Mexican descent, though not all are.

People of Latin American descent -including Mexicans- who do not live in the US are by definition not Latino. This is a common mistake people make when referring to those of Latin American descent in general, but it remains a mistake. Conversely, not all people of Latin American descent who live in the US adopt this identity.

[E's Lil Theorem]

Originally posted by Millennium:
...Conversely, not all people of Latin American descent who live in the US adopt this identity.

There's a movement, albeit small, to change this. Most people in the US call Latin Americans Hispanics, which used to be a derogatory term back in the Spanish-ruled colonial days. I believe the lets-call-ourselves-Latinos movement started so we would not be called this. (The other big reason for this "new" name is to give ourselves an identity as we're not European nor are we Native American.) Maybe in a few decades it'll begin to stick.

[malvolio]

Originally posted by iLikebeer:
No, Mexico has many different ethnicities. Maybe not as diverse as the US, but not everyone down there is Latino/Hispanic.

This is true of all Latin American countries. In addition to the obvious (Native Americans), just consider recent Latin American political leaders with names like Fujimori and Stroessner.