[ThinkInsane]

I was at the mall today, so I figured I would stop at the Apple store and pick up a copy of iLife 05. I just installed it, and found out the hard way that all those nifty new editing features in iPhoto, the only reason I bought the product, won't work on my 900 MHz G3 iBook. So, I now have this software that is pretty much useless to me. No returns on open box software, so that's not an option.

So, for $80 I got a crippled version of iPhoto, iMovie HD, which I have no use for and also crippled, iDVD 5, which I have no use for and also won't work on my system, Garage Band 2, which also seems to be crippled on a G3, and the same version of iTunes I already had. What a great deal. If it wasn't my own fault for not reading past 'Macintosh computer with PowerPC G3 (400 MHz or faster)', I'd feel like I just took it in the ass. Actually, I do feel like I took it in the ass. Live and learn I guess.

[Mafia]

that sucks. if you can't take it back i'll take it i guess. or this could be a sign to buy a new computer

[PurpleGiant]

Which new editing features in iPhoto don't work on a G3?

[alphasubzero949]

Originally posted by Mafia:
or this could be a sign to buy a new computer

Why would he need to buy a new computer? I have two G3s that run iLife '04 (sans GarageBand) exceptionally well given how old the hardware is. The last G3 was phased out in October 2003 with the intro of the iBook G4. Quite idiotic of Apple to kill support NOW.

[ManOfSteal]

How much you want for it?

[demograph68]

Why buy it?

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
I was at the mall today, so I figured I would stop at the Apple store and pick up a copy of iLife 05. I just installed it, and found out the hard way that all those nifty new editing features in iPhoto, the only reason I bought the product, won't work on my 900 MHz G3 iBook. So, I now have this software that is pretty much useless to me. No returns on open box software, so that's not an option.

So, for $80 I got a crippled version of iPhoto, iMovie HD, which I have no use for and also crippled, iDVD 5, which I have no use for and also won't work on my system, Garage Band 2, which also seems to be crippled on a G3, and the same version of iTunes I already had. What a great deal. If it wasn't my own fault for not reading past 'Macintosh computer with PowerPC G3 (400 MHz or faster)', I'd feel like I just took it in the ass. Actually, I do feel like I took it in the ass. Live and learn I guess.

Call the Apple Store, raise (polite) hell, go up to the manager if you have to. Explain that you bought it for iphoto, it doesn't work on your machine, and that you'd appreciate being able to return it.
If it doesn't work, the marketplace is down a few forums.

[velodev]

I don't know... I think if you're still running a G3, your days are slowly becoming numbered on the ability to perform with the power houses Apple is putting out these days.

It would be far from "idiotic" for Apple to try and maintain support for processors that are almost two generations old.

[Eug Wanker]

How are all the apps crippled exactly? Just wondering, since I don't own a G3. (I run a 1 GHz TiBook, and a 1.7 GHz Cube.)

You mentioned the editing features in iPhoto, but what about iMovie and GarageBand?

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by PurpleGiant:
Which new editing features in iPhoto don't work on a G3?

You know that really cool dashboard widget from the Keynote, with the exposure controls and saturation and all that Jazz? Yeah, that's what doesn't work. You get a widget, but all it does is brightness and contrast.

[Cody Dawg]

I would b*tch about it, yeah.

There's always eBay. Give us the auction number and we'll bid on it.

Or tell us a price and one of us will just buy it, though I do get my iLife suites for free because Apple sells a lot to our company and that's a promo item.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by Eug Wanker:
How are all the apps crippled exactly? Just wondering, since I don't own a G3. (I run a 1 GHz TiBook, and a 1.7 GHz Cube.)

You mentioned the editing features in iPhoto, but what about iMovie and GarageBand?

No HD in iMovie, no GarageBand software instruments (what ever that means, I've never used GarageBand. I couldn't carry a tune in a bucket).

[Luca Rescigno]

I'm sure you could find someone to buy it for at least 75% of retail. But uh, why'd you buy it in the first place? I also have no interest in or use for iDVD and iMovie. I might play around with Garage Band a little but I probably wouldn't get anywhere with it, and iPhoto sure isn't worth $80 or even $50. Maybe $25-$35 by itself.

So uh... yeah, that sucks, but it's hard to be overly sympathetic when you admit three of the five apps in the package are of no use to you. Best of luck selling them, though. Oh and who wants to bet Apple raises the price of iLife to $99 for next year? Seems like a pretty clear trend to me.

[James L]

I am holding the iLife05 box in my hand. It says, on the side in the system requirements section:

"G4 or G5 for iPhoto advanced editing and Garageband software instruments"

I feel your pain, as I have done EXACTLY the same thing. Note I didn't post that to rub it in for you, but to make sure any other G3 owners know it is there.

I hope you unload it for a decent price!

James

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
I was at the mall today, so I figured I would stop at the Apple store and pick up a copy of iLife 05. I just installed it, and found out the hard way that all those nifty new editing features in iPhoto, the only reason I bought the product, won't work on my 900 MHz G3 iBook. So, I now have this software that is pretty much useless to me. No returns on open box software, so that's not an option.

So, for $80 I got a crippled version of iPhoto, iMovie HD, which I have no use for and also crippled, iDVD 5, which I have no use for and also won't work on my system, Garage Band 2, which also seems to be crippled on a G3, and the same version of iTunes I already had. What a great deal. If it wasn't my own fault for not reading past 'Macintosh computer with PowerPC G3 (400 MHz or faster)', I'd feel like I just took it in the ass. Actually, I do feel like I took it in the ass. Live and learn I guess.

Where do you live? I'll buy it off you. Saves me having to walk ten miles to the Apple Store.

[ThinkInsane]

I'm in upstate new york. PM me or email me at thinkinsane at mac dot com to work out the details.

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
I'm in upstate new york. PM me or email me at thinkinsane at mac dot com to work out the details.

We'll leave it. I'm on the west coast.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by RonnieoftheRose:
We'll leave it. I'm on the west coast.

Do you have post offices out west?

[RonnieoftheRose]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
Do you have post offices out west? That was $60 shipped.

You'll find someone else quickly. I'm still pondering whether to buy 12" PB which would have it installed.

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
Call the Apple Store, raise (polite) hell, go up to the manager if you have to. Explain that you bought it for iphoto, it doesn't work on your machine, and that you'd appreciate being able to return it.
If it doesn't work, the marketplace is down a few forums.

The system requirements are on the box and on the website.

[Scotttheking]

Originally posted by Agasthya:
The system requirements are on the box and on the website.

So?

[Agasthya]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
So?

Its not like Apple is saying that it will work with G3s. The consumer has to take some sort of responsibility. Causing a scene at TI's local Apple Store might get the product returned but he should have done some research before buying the product (especially with a computer that is a few generations old!)

And I'm really glad that TI wrote that he takes the responsibility for not doing the research. I just really don't think that any Apple Store has the ability to take back open box software. It is one of those touchy things like what if he made a copy and is just ********ting? You know where I'm going..

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally posted by Scotttheking:
So?

I think his point was, ThinkInsane has no reason to bitch about GarageBand software instruments, the lack of iPhoto's advanced editing features, iDVD or the HD features of iMovie. It is clearly spelled out on the box/web site that it was incompatible with his system. I'm with you regarding the "fairness" of such a young system being cast in to the "old" pile, but that wasn't his original complaint.

- G4 or G5 required for GarageBand software instruments and advanced photo editing in iPhoto 5
- 733MHz G4 or faster required for iDVD
- 1GHz G4 or faster required to use HD features of iMovie HD

http://www.apple.com/ilife/#systemrequirements

[Kenneth]

Yeap.. pretty much said G3 came to the end.

[tooki]

I have to agree with mitchell_pgh -- it sucks, but the requirements are very clearly printed on both the box and website. It's not reasonable to get angry over something that was clearly your mistake. Sorry!

tooki

[ThinkInsane]

Ok, so this incident is telling me that my iBook No longer fits the bill. It'll still do fine for my mobile needs, but it no longer cuts it as a desktop replacement. I need me a shiny new machine. I don't really use any power apps, so I don't need a dual G5. I'd kind of like to get a mini, I was playing around with one while I was at the apple store today. of course, that still leaves me with a previous generation processor, and I'll probably find myself in the same situation sooner than later. I'm thinking a new iMac might be in order.

[Eug Wanker]

1GHz G4 or faster required to use HD features of iMovie HD

I'm glad I bought the 1 GHz TiBook and not the 867, if only for bragging rights for Pixlet and iMovie HD, and the fact that it's actually hit the magic GHz mark.

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by tooki:
I have to agree with mitchell_pgh -- it sucks, but the requirements are very clearly printed on both the box and website. It's not reasonable to get angry over something that was clearly your mistake. Sorry!

tooki

I was never angry, just annoyed. I took full responsibility for making the mistake in the first post. I glanced at the requirements on the box and didn't take 20 seconds to read the whole thing. I won $5000 on the super bowl last night (I hit the 2nd and 4th quarters on a pool- $100 a square), so I'm not gonna get my panties in too much of a bunch about it. If I can recoup some of what I spent on a product it turns out does me no good, then great, if not, oh well. I figure there'll be someone that would like to save a few bucks on the software, and will actually be able to use it the way it was intended.

[Cody Dawg]

$5,000?



Congratulations!

I was just going to start a ThinkInsane donation fund for iLife '05!

ThinkInsane: Take your money and your iLife and go back to the store and tell them this: I would like to look at an open box or return iMac and I might buy it. Thing is, if I buy it, I don't need this iLife '05. If you can knock it off of the price then I'll buy a new machine from you.

That is what I would do if I were you. I never buy new machines - only open box items that are 15% off.

Good luck!

[cjrivera]

They must have had several people complain about the requirements after buying iLife '05.

My sister picked up iLife '05 for me from the Apple Store in St. Louis, and the salesman asked her several times to check the requirements on the side panel to make sure it would run on my machine.

[Rev-O]

Slight tangent here regarding the value of iLife 05 in general. Am I the only one who feels like I got stiffed for $80? iLife 05 would be a nice $20 upgrade from iLife 4, and would be worth $80 for a first time purchase. But is it $80 better than iLife 4? Don't think so.

A coworker of mine who recently converted from the dark side to a G5 iMac is a little concerned about Apple's marketing. New version of OS X every year for $130. Now perhaps a new iLife every year for $80. I think it is getting a bit carried away. So for $500 you can buy a Mac Mini, be a switcher, and enjoy OS X and seamless integration of a kick ass suite of software for a $210 annual fee.

[moonmonkey]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Slight tangent here regarding the value of iLife 05 in general. Am I the only one who feels like I got stiffed for $80? iLife 05 would be a nice $20 upgrade from iLife 4, and would be worth $80 for a first time purchase. But is it $80 better than iLife 4? Don't think so.

A coworker of mine who recently converted from the dark side to a G5 iMac is a little concerned about Apple's marketing. New version of OS X every year for $130. Now perhaps a new iLife every year for $80. I think it is getting a bit carried away. So for $500 you can buy a Mac Mini, be a switcher, and enjoy OS X and seamless integration of a kick ass suite of software for a $210 annual fee.

210$ Annual fee?

Since when have apple started renting out software?

[alphasubzero949]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Slight tangent here regarding the value of iLife 05 in general. Am I the only one who feels like I got stiffed for $80? iLife 05 would be a nice $20 upgrade from iLife 4, and would be worth $80 for a first time purchase. But is it $80 better than iLife 4? Don't think so.

A coworker of mine who recently converted from the dark side to a G5 iMac is a little concerned about Apple's marketing. New version of OS X every year for $130. Now perhaps a new iLife every year for $80. I think it is getting a bit carried away. So for $500 you can buy a Mac Mini, be a switcher, and enjoy OS X and seamless integration of a kick ass suite of software for a $210 annual fee.

You forgot the additional $30 for QuickTime Pro and $99 for .Mac.

Oh, and the extra $$$ needed for iWork '06.

[Agasthya]

nevermind.

[CharlesS]

Unrelated question: Advanced features notwithstanding, is performance any better in iPhoto on the G3 than it was with the '04 version?

[ThinkInsane]

Originally posted by CharlesS:
Unrelated question: Advanced features notwithstanding, is performance any better in iPhoto on the G3 than it was with the '04 version?

Seems like it's slower to me, but that might be because the pictures load a little bit differently than in 04.

[CharlesS]

Originally posted by ThinkInsane:
Seems like it's slower to me, but that might be because the pictures load a little bit differently than in 04.

Dammit.

Where's my G5 Powerbook, Apple?!

[Big Mac]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Slight tangent here regarding the value of iLife 05 in general. Am I the only one who feels like I got stiffed for $80? iLife 05 would be a nice $20 upgrade from iLife 4, and would be worth $80 for a first time purchase. But is it $80 better than iLife 4? Don't think so.

A coworker of mine who recently converted from the dark side to a G5 iMac is a little concerned about Apple's marketing. New version of OS X every year for $130. Now perhaps a new iLife every year for $80. I think it is getting a bit carried away. So for $500 you can buy a Mac Mini, be a switcher, and enjoy OS X and seamless integration of a kick ass suite of software for a $210 annual fee.

Apple is not a charity but rather a business. It sells hardware, software and services according to market principles. iLife is not a requisite piece of software, and Apple is not coercing anyone into a yearly iLife upgrade scheme. If you find the new features worth it and you have the hardware required, go for the upgrade. If you can make due with a previous version, then that's great, too. Some people seem to believe that the norms concerning software upgrades don't apply to Apple. Unless you're really committed to a particular piece of software, upgrading with every major release makes little sense. Do you upgrade your Adobe or Macromedia products every time a new milestone is released? Upgrade when it makes sense for you, not to correspond with Apple's schedule.

Now, you formerly had a point concerning OS X upgrades. 10.0. 10.2 and 10.3 were relatively costly upgrades that came out in relatively rapid succession. And if you failed to keep up with the OS, new software that relied on it would not run (Safari being the prime example). So you could make the argument that Rev-O makes, and it would be quite convincing. Until now. Now Apple has stated publicly that it intends to slow the pace of major releases, and Tiger still won't be out for quite a few months. OS X is much more mature and feature rich than it was in the early days, so the pace at which major upgrades come will slow down.

It would have been a good thing if Apple could have made iLife 05 less processor intense. I can empathize with ThinkInsane. His iBook's processor is nearly twice as fast as mine, and the fact that iLife won't run optimally on such a recent system is bothersome. Of course, my 466 was left in the dust by iLife long ago. Truth be told, I would be a lot more concerned about this trend but for the fact that I have my precious DP 2.0.

It would be nice if Apple could adopt a bit of Be's design philosophy - code for the slowest machine so that early purchasers are satisfied and things run really fast on new hardware. But if Apple worked like that, its software wouldn't take advantage of the cutting edge hardware, and the state of software wouldn't progress. It would also break the continuous upgrade cycle that many of us have been caught in for decades; that would be good for the environment but bad for hardware makers. My philosophy is to buy at the beginning of the upgrade cycle as much hardware power as is sensible and then to hold onto that hardware for as many years as possible, until a significant amount of productivity would be gained from upgrading again. Either that or sell and upgrade often - a valid strategy considering the high resale value of modern Macs.

[theolein]

As someone who is rather strapped cash wise, I also am a bit surprised at Apple's various upgrade policies.

On the one hand, Apple has made every version of OSX faster than the previous version. Heck, 10.3 even runs on my old Lombard 333 Mhz G3, and is usable there. I can't do much of the graphic stuff there, but I can use it very well for development, the terminal, admin purposes, mail, basic browsing etc.

So, I can understand Apple's software upgrade policies quite well, actually. It would be suicide for Apple to make their software be totally backwards compatible back to the early G3's. Instead they make it so that software will run on older hardware, even if not all features will work there. That is actually quite cool.

What is less cool, is the fact that Apple has no upgrade pricing on any software. Perhaps for the pro stuff, I don't know, but definitely not for the OS or the i'apps. I personally will usually buy an OS that is new, but I would never buy a new iLife app. I simply don't see the reason, since they're not worth that much more if you ask me.

I wounder if others feel the same way? Would they buy iLife if there was an upgrade version, or do they think it is a bargain as it is? Do people think the OS would sell better if Apple offered an upgrade price?

[mitchell_pgh]

I'll be the first to say that I'm a little concerned about the yearly upgrade fee of iLife. Feel free to flame me, but for the financially challenged, $80 is a considerable amount of money to be paying.

Perhaps it's because I don't use Garage Band, iMovie ore iDVD... and iTunes is free™. I know I'm being selfish, but it's how I feel.

[BoomStick]

I can't get PhotoShopCS to run on my LCII.

[Person Man]

Originally posted by BoomStick:
I can't get PhotoShopCS to run on my LCII.

I can. Why can't you?

[hayesk]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
I'll be the first to say that I'm a little concerned about the yearly upgrade fee of iLife. Feel free to flame me, but for the financially challenged, $80 is a considerable amount of money to be paying.

Perhaps it's because I don't use Garage Band, iMovie ore iDVD... and iTunes is free™. I know I'm being selfish, but it's how I feel.

So the question is, should Apple bend over backwards to cater to the "selfish." Offering a $20 upgrade price means they would have to make more than four times the upgrade sales as they would keeping it at $80. I'm not sure if they could do that.

Note, I said more than four, because of costs of building "upgrade-only" versions, extra shipping and packaging costs, etc.

[DeathMan]

if its not worth the money, don't buy it. they state the features pretty clearly on the website. if $80 is too steep for new dvd themes, and multiple instruments recording in gb, don't buy it.

duh.

A subscription is when your current software doesn't work if you don't pay. your iLife '04 will work fine for quite a while, even if you don't buy the new version.

Stop being helpless consumer victims to mean old apple coroporation.

[Scotttheking]

Sell iphoto separately
Buy the whole package for $80, but get an iphoto download for $20. They do it with quicktime.

BTW, when I wanted to get an airport express, I called the apple store, asked if it worked with 10.2. I was told it did.
When I got home and it didn't, I simply called the store, spoke with the manager, drove back, and returned it with no restocking fee. Mistakes happen. Sometimes the store will be nice enough to help you out when they happen, sometimes not.
I have no qualms about asking, Apple's gotten plenty of money as a result of me.

[turtle777]

darn it, wrong thread.

-t

[typoon]

Originally posted by Rev-O:
Slight tangent here regarding the value of iLife 05 in general. Am I the only one who feels like I got stiffed for $80? iLife 05 would be a nice $20 upgrade from iLife 4, and would be worth $80 for a first time purchase. But is it $80 better than iLife 4? Don't think so.

A coworker of mine who recently converted from the dark side to a G5 iMac is a little concerned about Apple's marketing. New version of OS X every year for $130. Now perhaps a new iLife every year for $80. I think it is getting a bit carried away. So for $500 you can buy a Mac Mini, be a switcher, and enjoy OS X and seamless integration of a kick ass suite of software for a $210 annual fee.

Well after 10.4 Tiger they are stopping the 18 month upgrade cycle for the OS so that's 129 less every year. I actually like a lot of the new features in iLIfe '05. Like the option to burn straight to DVD right from a Tape. that is a nice little feature.

[OpenStep]

I'd like to briefly say it would be great if there was some sort of upgrade price for previous owners. For some of us $80 seems steep to last year's $49... I bet Apple could keep people happy by offering the full version of 05 for $80 and an upgrade from 04 for $49.

[Gee4orce]

Take it back to the store. You don't need to see the manager - all the staff are empowered to make these kind of decisions. Ask them about 'the road to yes' and 'surprise and delight'. They will refund you the cost, or give you an equivalent....

[turtle777]

Originally posted by Gee4orce:
Ask them about 'the road to yes' and 'surprise and delight'. They will refund you the cost, or give you an equivalent....

Ahh, magical words ! Good to know

-t