[goMac]

It looks like Napster's DRM on their subscription service has a huge loophole.

http://www.tech-recipes.com/windows_tips832.html

Even worse you can get a free trial of the subscription service, meaning you don't have to pay anything to steal from Napster's collection.

I wanna see what happens when the record labels see this...

[Apple Pro Underwear]

i'd hit it


no i won't

[andreas_g4]

Personally I don't think a subscription based service will work too good at all. This only makes it worse. Good lord, I'm so Apple indulged… But really, Napster won't get near Apple.

[Scifience]

I wonder if this little trick also works with other Windows Media-based DRM-encoded files.

[awaspaas]

Couldn't the same be accomplished using any program that can "record" the audio from any given program? I remember a similar iTunes exploit.

Nonetheless, I don't doubt the entire DRM scheme will be cracked soon. (Giving DRM-free audio files which are still encoded)

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by goMac:
Even worse you can get a free trial of the subscription service, meaning you don't have to pay anything to steal from Napster's collection.

Even worse? I would say even better

[goMac]

Originally posted by awaspaas:
Couldn't the same be accomplished using any program that can "record" the audio from any given program? I remember a similar iTunes exploit.

Nonetheless, I don't doubt the entire DRM scheme will be cracked soon. (Giving DRM-free audio files which are still encoded)

It can, but the biggest issue is that Napster gives you a free trial. Basically this makes Napster no better than a normal swapping service. At least on iTunes the song has to be bought before the DRM is removed. That means for each stolen song the label will still get 99 cents per song.

On Napster with a free trial the labels get nothing. Even worse, imagine 3000 songs getting stolen a month by someone paying $15 a month.

[goMac]

Originally posted by Wiskedjak:
Even worse? I would say even better

I didn't say it was bad for you.

[awaspaas]

PS Everybody I've talked to about Napster has been completely surprised that your music stops working if you stop paying the monthly fee.

[olePigeon]

The DRM is from Microsoft, what do you expect?

[andreas_g4]

Originally posted by olePigeon:
The DRM is from Microsoft, what do you expect?

Apple's DRM was broken, too.

[mitchell_pgh]

Interesting... I bet someone is upset about this.

Considering you could probably download a few thousand songs in no time via. the free trial... it could get messy.

[mitchell_pgh]

Now I'm just waiting until someone creates a program that does this perfectly clean... (Napster DRM --> .WAV --> Unprotected MP3 [remove Napster file])

I'm sure someone is working on it...

[Angus_D]

Originally posted by mitchell_pgh:
Now I'm just waiting until someone creates a program that does this perfectly clean... (Napster DRM --> .WAV --> Unprotected MP3 [remove Napster file])

I'm sure someone is working on it...

But, uh, this isn't particularly useful or exciting. You could do this in iTunes. It's just that you're losing quality.

[Lancer409]

Originally posted by Angus_D:
But, uh, this isn't particularly useful or exciting. You could do this in iTunes. It's just that you're losing quality.

sure you could, but you'd have to pay 99 cents to do it right? if napster is giving a free trial with unlimited songs downloadable.... sounds like trouble

[Sarc]

Originally posted by andreas_g4:
Apple's DRM was broken, too.

true but you still needed a purchased song.
like someone said above, heree you can download at your hearts contempt.

[Wiskedjak]

It's fascinating to watch people complain about being able to legally get something for free ...

[TheMosco]

This is nothing new at all. I did this over the summer with winamp and some MS DRM'd files. This isn't just for napster.

You would think that this might be worth it until you realize that all the songs must be played in realtime. Not to mention the fact you are going from WMA to WAV to MP3.

Its an ok solution if you were willing to put in the time.

[sugar_coated]

napster reloaded!

[Drakino]

Originally posted by awaspaas:
Couldn't the same be accomplished using any program that can "record" the audio from any given program? I remember a similar iTunes exploit.

It could be done with other programs, yes. They didn't crack the DRM at all, they just did the equivelent of plugging in a tape player to a computer audio in jack and hitting record.

It's not an exploit per say, just a way to record audio. In theory, future DRM enabled computers will have all the pathways locked down to prevent this, but it requires a complete DRM solution from the CPU to the sound card.

[MaxPower2k3]

It's hard for me to believe that the record labels get nothing from the free trial. From everything i've heard, 'free' is not in any record label's vocabulary. I would think that Napster actually takes a loss on those free trials, paying the royalties for each song you download, and making up the loss on your eventual subscription. That said, if you get a bunch of people downloading tons of music with their free trial and then canceling before the trial is over, that can be pretty detrimental to Napster (even if the record labels still see their precious royalties).

[sugar_coated]

In many peoples mind, Napster subscription may actually be a bargain now.

[MaxPower2k3]

What quality are the songs? are they 128kbps WMA or higher?

[Daedalus17]

Originally posted by goMac:
It can, but the biggest issue is that Napster gives you a free trial. Basically this makes Napster no better than a normal swapping service. At least on iTunes the song has to be bought before the DRM is removed. That means for each stolen song the label will still get 99 cents per song.

On Napster with a free trial the labels get nothing. Even worse, imagine 3000 songs getting stolen a month by someone paying $15 a month.

Just because you strip the DRM doesn't mean that you stole the music. Maybe you just want to have it play from your home file server running linux or something. I don't understand why people think listening to your own music is stealing.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Drakino:
It's not an exploit per say, just a way to record audio. In theory, future DRM enabled computers will have all the pathways locked down to prevent this, but it requires a complete DRM solution from the CPU to the sound card.

As long as the computer has a line out, there will always be a way to "crack" the DRM.

I've no doubt that the RIAA is working on a way to prevent their music from being copied in any way.

[Mafia]

Originally posted by Daedalus17:
Just because you strip the DRM doesn't mean that you stole the music. Maybe you just want to have it play from your home file server running linux or something. I don't understand why people think listening to your own music is stealing.

ya but with napster you don't own the music you are borrowing it.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by Daedalus17:
I don't understand why people think listening to your own music is stealing.

iTMS

[Krusty]

I'm proud (??) to say I called this in a previous thread. Once the DRM is cracked, Napster would once again become the largest distributor of pirated music. As someone already mentioned, iTMS songs were at least paid for at some point by someone ... thus making the pirating of those songs about the same as when someone pirates a copy of a CD they bought. The Napster subscription model insures that many songs wlll be pirated at an initial cost in the fractions of a penny range vs 99cents for an iTMS song.

[goMac]

Originally posted by Daedalus17:
Just because you strip the DRM doesn't mean that you stole the music. Maybe you just want to have it play from your home file server running linux or something. I don't understand why people think listening to your own music is stealing.

No, it doesn't. But someone who does want to pirate music would use the same methods.

[pxldev]

It's even WAY, WAY easier than this my friends...

Simply download REPLAY MUSIC
http://www.replay-music.com/

This will record the stream and tag the track using the Gracenote CD Database. WIll even add it to your iTunes library. At this point, as long as you do not share these files it's completly legal. You break no laws recording the music for personal use, however Napter, Real Rhapsody can terminate your subscription. Then again, how would they ever now?

As this gets out more and more you will see the recording industry move to renegotiate with subcription services.

I give Naptster 6 months...

[itistoday]

Uh, this isn't really breaking the DRM, it's simply capturing the raw audio out and making it into a wav file. Programs for mac already do the same thing (like WireTap and Audio Hijack), as well as some sound cards. This is, however, a very annoying and time consuming process, as you have to first play the entire song in realtime, then encode the wav file back into mp3. Essentially, any sound your computer makes can be recorded in this fashion. It's not "cracking" the DRM however.

[goMac]

Originally posted by itistoday:
Uh, this isn't really breaking the DRM, it's simply capturing the raw audio out and making it into a wav file. Programs for mac already do the same thing (like WireTap and Audio Hijack), as well as some sound cards. This is, however, a very annoying and time consuming process, as you have to first play the entire song in realtime, then encode the wav file back into mp3. Essentially, any sound your computer makes can be recorded in this fashion. It's not "cracking" the DRM however.

However, the plugin completely automates the process by making it automatic..

[pxldev]

Originally posted by itistoday:
Uh, this isn't really breaking the DRM, it's simply capturing the raw audio out and making it into a wav file. Programs for mac already do the same thing (like WireTap and Audio Hijack), as well as some sound cards. This is, however, a very annoying and time consuming process, as you have to first play the entire song in realtime, then encode the wav file back into mp3. Essentially, any sound your computer makes can be recorded in this fashion. It's not "cracking" the DRM however.

Using audio hijack or your line-in jack on your stereo is cumbersome. Howerver, if you use Replay Music it completly automates the process. All you do is cue them up and let the songs play. It records, names, saves the files. Because this is not illegal, I feel this will haunt Napster.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally posted by pxldev:
I give Naptster 6 months...

I give the recording industry, as we know it, 3 years. This issue points out more problems with the RIAA than it does with Napster

[Athens]

this should cause some major problems for napster with the labels. And this validates apple for making ACC only work with itunes and the ipod

[Big Mac]

AAC does not just work with iTunes - it is an open format. It is just that few have bothered to implement it. You are right about iTMS AACs, however. Napster was doomed to failure from the start. The best Roxio can hope for is that Apple buys it in order to put the company out of its misery.

[TheMosco]

Originally posted by Athens:
this should cause some major problems for napster with the labels. And this validates apple for making ACC only work with itunes and the ipod

Why would this cause major problems with the label for napster?

This will work with probably any MS encrypted files [I know for a fact it works with my work files). It's not napster's fault that the winamp file writer will write the files to the hd. Its a problem with WMA rights management and winamp.

[willed]

Originally posted by pxldev:
It's even WAY, WAY easier than this my friends...

Simply download REPLAY MUSIC
http://www.replay-music.com/

This will record the stream and tag the track using the Gracenote CD Database. WIll even add it to your iTunes library. At this point, as long as you do not share these files it's completly legal. You break no laws recording the music for personal use, however Napter, Real Rhapsody can terminate your subscription. Then again, how would they ever now?

As this gets out more and more you will see the recording industry move to renegotiate with subcription services.

I give Naptster 6 months...

I can almost hear the lawyers knocking on their door already.

This, gentlemen, is why the iTMS only offers 30 second previews rather than whole song previews.

[Randman]

Originally posted by Sarc:
like someone said above, heree you can download at your hearts contempt.

Contempt or content? Fruedian slip, eh?

[Athens]

Originally posted by TheMosco:
Why would this cause major problems with the label for napster?

This will work with probably any MS encrypted files [I know for a fact it works with my work files). It's not napster's fault that the winamp file writer will write the files to the hd. Its a problem with WMA rights management and winamp.

Well can you play full songs on Itunes with out paying NOPE. Second its a problem with WMA rights management like you said. When ACC rights management was broken, apple changed it and went after the developer right away. Apple is working hard to protect it. What will happen is if WMA rights management isnt fixed when stuff like this happens Labels wont publish there artists with companies like Napster.

[gatekeeper]

NEWS AT 11: APPLE DRM BROKEN BEFORE IT WAS EVEN RELEASED.
NEWS AT 12: APPLE API OFFERS ACCESS TO DECODED AUDIO SAMPLES

Apple is working hard to protect it.

The fact that Hymn has now been hosted for over a year in the United States and Apple hasn't even sent them a cease and desist in that time period is surely evidence of that.

[TheMosco]

Originally posted by Athens:
Well can you play full songs on Itunes with out paying NOPE. Second its a problem with WMA rights management like you said. When ACC rights management was broken, apple changed it and went after the developer right away. Apple is working hard to protect it. What will happen is if WMA rights management isnt fixed when stuff like this happens Labels wont publish there artists with companies like Napster.

As someone else mentioned, the method thats used for this is similar to plugging in a cord to your line out on your computer and recording that. Its a trial, even if people didn't have winamp they could still do this.

As far as I know, WMA rights management has only been broken once. And I am pretty sure that the WMA rights management is also self updating meaning when it does get broken, they can release a fix without you even knowing. Like gatekeeper said, I don't know where you are getting the idea that apple is working hard to protect it.

And to think that something so minor such as this would cause labels to steer clear of Services such as napster is kinda silly. They amount of time required to steal any good amount of music makes this method not even that worth it unless you tons of time on yours hands.

I don't see this as such a big deal. If I was MS, would I have winamp and other players fix it? Probably, but then people could just use the windows equivalent to audio hijack or wiretap.